Fundamentally Important Aspects of ST Even Fans Misunderstand

[jgalley]

Starfleet isn't human dominated, we've just seen a handful of crewmembers from a handful of ships. With 150+ aliens in the Federation, humans make up only a small percentage of Starfleet personnel.

Wrong...

Starfleet =/= The Federation.

The Federation has 150+ alien members. But each member has their own ships/fleets.
Starfleet is Earths fleet, the organization allows aliens, but it is primarily a human organization made up of more humans than any other single alien race. The percentage of humans on that ship may be lower than the percentage of aliens, but when you seperate that into per-species...humans are clearly the most dominant. And you have absolutely NOTHING to base your statement on otherwise.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Wrong...

Starfleet =/= The Federation.

The Federation has 150+ alien members. But each member has their own ships/fleets.
Starfleet is Earths fleet, the organization allows aliens, but it is primarily a human organization made up of more humans than any other single alien race. The percentage of humans on that ship may be lower than the percentage of aliens, but when you seperate that into per-species...humans are clearly the most dominant. And you have absolutely NOTHING to base your statement on otherwise.

There is nothing to base your assumptions on, as we've never seen each member race having their own fleet. The only time this was true was in ENT when Earth, Vulcan, Andor, etc were all separate sovereign nations, so would logically have their own fleets, with the formation of the United Federation of Planets then the fleets and structure would become unified. Some races may still operate their own ships, though these would be for civilian operations/use.

The combined fleet may have adopted the name "Starfleet" due to its lack of planetary affiliation, its a more neutral term, so that they would maintain a unified front (like on Voyager with the two crews coming together under the one banner).

 

[JeffinOakland]

I'm not sure what the deal is with the concern over percentage of humans in Starfleet. It is impossible to determine conclusively based on the given information. If the PTB at ST thought it was important, they would have clearly stated it somewhere in 726 episodes and 13 movies. Obviously, they don't care and the fans aren't meant to care. This thread has to do with immutable FACTS even ST fans get wrong. Not niggling over highly debatable interpretations.

 

[Tenacity]

... and the fans aren't meant to care

It's not up to "TPTB" to determine what the fan are allowed to care about, that's out of their hands.

There is nothing to base your assumptions on, as we've never seen each member race having their own fleet.

The Vulcan fleet mentioned in TNG Unification could be interpeted as the Vulcans having a separate fleet, disconnected from Starfleet. just like the Vulcans have a separarte intelligence service in the 24th century, and apparently foreign diplomatic relations separate from the Federation too.

And if one Federation member has these things, this implies that all members have them.

 

[JeffinOakland]

It's not up to "TPTB" to determine what the fan are allowed to care about, that's out of their hands.

I didn't say allowed. I said meant. They never talk about it because it's not important to understanding or appreciating ST.

 

[The Old Mixer]

There's nothing onscreen that definitively establishes Starfleet as the unified fleet of the entire Federation, though that was a longstanding assumption. Adding up Enterprise, the various references to the Enterprise as an Earth ship in early TOS, and the apparent human dominance of Starfleet into the 24th century, I think that the Federation isn't a centralized government in itself, but an alliance of sovereign planetary governments. Earth's starfleet happens to be the main one serving the Federation, and representatives of other Federation members are welcome to join it.

 

[Tenacity]

I think that the Federation isn't a centralized government in itself, but an alliance of sovereign planetary governments.

This is the way I see it, based on what is seen on the shows, and the TNG writers guide does identify the Federation as a alliance.

There's nothing onscreen that definitively establishes Starfleet as the unified fleet of the entire Federation, though that was a longstanding assumption.

The Jouney to Babel had an exchange between the Vulcan and Tellarite ambassadors. When Sarek mentions illegal mining Gav becomes upset, we hear this ...

Gav: Illegal? You accuse us?
Sarek: Some of your ships have been carrying Coridan dilithium crystals.
Gav: You call us thieves?

When Sarek says "your ships" he could have been referring to civilian commercial shipping. But given that he was speaking to the Tellar government's ambassador, would not "your ships" more likely be a reference to government ships, like military starships?

 

[Zonker]

Sci-fi is a form of fantasy. I've seen lots of fans deride Star Wars as space fantasy while insisting that Star Trek potentially "could happen." It can't. Large chunks of the science are made up on the spot and reffered to as technobabble. Other times they do refer to real science but completely butcher it. Evolution specifically is butchered every time its brought up. Sometimes they throw science out the window altogether. Usually it involves omnipotent energy beings, Q/Organians/Prophets, but not always. There's nothing necessarily wrong with this if it serves the story/setting. Personally I love some the blatantly unscientific elements of Star Trek but it really irks me when people get elitist about it being hard sci fi, partly because that sort of elitism is dumb but also because it's not hard sci fi at all.

 

[Jay Dee]

This is the way I see it, based on what is seen on the shows, and the TNG writers guide does identify the Federation as a alliance.

A possible modern parallel is the EU. They have their own parliament and president with laws that apply to all members. But each member state has their own government and laws, and they all have the option to leave the union. The Federation could be similar. It has a president and its own government, but each member has their own government. It would be incredibly impractical to impose the same laws on all members, as societal and cultural differences are so vast that it wouldn't work.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Interesting how the Fed and Starfleet are never clearly defined. Convenient too. Leaves the PTB a lot of wiggle room to tell the story they want to tell. Probably not a coincidence.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

In the Immunity Syndrome the Starfleet vessel USS Intrepid is crewed entirely by Vulcans, 400 of them!

 

[Forbin]

In the Immunity Syndrome the Starfleet vessel USS Intrepid is crewed entirely by Vulcans, 400 of them!

To quote Commodore Decker, "Not anyMORE!"

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Maybe not as real, but more analogous to what might happen if such aliens existed and we found them/they found us.

Can you imagine if the Federation micro-managed country affairs on every member planet? Nothing would ever get done! They liaise with planetary and regional bodies and intervene where applicable or requested.

 

[Jedi_Master]

It's just a TV show, you should really just relax.

DON'T!!!!! EVER!!!!! TELL ME!!!! TO RELAX!!!!!!

 

[Tenacity]

A possible modern parallel is the EU.

I think more like a combination of the United Nations, and NATO, and the World Trade Organization. And maybe the World Court too.

Any "laws" would be in the form of treaties between the Members, the individual Federation members would have the option of ratifying the treaty measures (all, or parts) or refusing the treaty completely.

 

[Arpy]

In the Immunity Syndrome the Starfleet vessel USS Intrepid is crewed entirely by Vulcans, 400 of them!

Exactly. The Old Mixer, early TOS made the assumption that the Enterprise was an Earth ship because they hadn't yet come up with Starfleet or the Federation. Once they did, the rest is history. Ditto getting rid of Lithium Crystals and the unforgivably-late-in-the-game non-existence of female starship captains.

If there were 149+ other fleets out there, they'd all have been alongside their Earth partners when the entire Federation was at war with the Dominion. Or they would have sent a ship or two to Wolf 359. Or, you know, been seen or in any way at all heard of over the entirety of Trek's 50 years. On the other hand, the combined fleet is seen, inferred, or heard of constantly.

Fan theories are fine. I probably have some of my own if I think about it (mine are fact though!), but taking them as canon or official in any way makes them themselves "Fundamentally Important Aspects of ST Even Fans Misunderstand."

 

[JeffinOakland]

Exactly. The Old Mixer, early TOS made the assumption that the Enterprise was an Earth ship because they hadn't yet come up with Starfleet or the Federation. Once they did, the rest is history. Ditto getting rid of Lithium Crystals and the unforgivably-late-in-the-game non-existence of female starship captains.

If there were 149+ other fleets out there, they'd all have been alongside their Earth partners when the entire Federation was at war with the Dominion. Or they would have sent a ship or two to Wolf 359. Or, you know, been seen or in any way at all heard of over the entirety of Trek's 50 years. On the other hand, the combined fleet is seen, inferred, or heard of constantly.

Fan theories are fine. I probably have some of my own if I think about it (mine are fact though!), but taking them as canon or official in any way makes them themselves "Fundamentally Important Aspects of ST Even Fans Misunderstand."

Agree w all of this. In particular, the last paragraph. Nothing wrong with having an idea or considering a possibility but without proof, they're just glorified opinions.

 

[locutus101]

It's possible for a well respected character to say something and be wrong, inaccurate or completely clueless on what they're talking about. Even if they're speaking in a authoritative way.Even by the time of the later 24th century, the majority of starships are not well species integrated, despite what some of the fan fiction and novels would lead us to believe.

In addition to there being no money, there also are no toilets. Socially evolved Humanity doesn't poop.

Secretly, Eileen Roddenberry was the creative force behind Star Trek, but it being the 1960's Gene took the credit.

That one is easy to explain. Each time they use the transporter, it filters out the poop out of their bodies, as it does for harmful organisms. That's why they never have enough poop inside of them to have to go.

 

[Jay Dee]

I think more like a combination of the United Nations, and NATO, and the World Trade Organization. And maybe the World Court too.

Yeah, there's not really any one modern organisation that would be the same. Just the massive size of the Federation is daunting by today's standards.

 

[locutus101]

The federation can wage war, so it's actually very close to a military organization.