News Fuller: Why I Left Star Trek: Discovery

[Aeronnaex]

Hard to know if this works out in the end or not....but.......there are two fundamental questions that bother me:

1.Why wasn't this what we were told right off the bat? The typical corporate mindset would lead to some obfuscation, obviously. But why flat out claim that Fuller is still with the show? Eventually the truth would come out. Was it fear that people would be negative about a hard break, as they could be now? It's hard not to see this as they wanted to spin this as positive, and the only reason to spin this into a positive is if it's not.

2. Why did this happen at all? The timeline had to have been known before Fuller agreed. He got to assemble the team, so he clearly was invested in Discovery, and concurrently knew of his other commitments. But as it was happening, obviously he and CBS knew the timetable. That makes me think it's not really timing, but something else. The fact that he describes further involvement as "They have my number" makes me think it's more than just timing. My guess (and it is JUST a guess) is that Fuller was building a show that CBS didn't like or heavily wanted to change. When they started changing it, he bolted. CBS tried to let him save face and said he was still involved, but his comments sound like he is VERY much not happy and is trying really hard to be as civil as possible. We'll see if the rest of Fuller's "dream team" start to leave.......I'd guess about half are gone during season 1.

All that said - it might still be an awesome show, but my own personal enthusiasm has dropped below "Enteprise" levels.

 

[Christopher]

1.Why wasn't this what we were told right off the bat? The typical corporate mindset would lead to some obfuscation, obviously. But why flat out claim that Fuller is still with the show? Eventually the truth would come out.

The original press release said, "Due to Bryan’s other projects, he is no longer able to oversee the day-to-day of Star Trek, but he remains an executive producer, and will continue to map out the story arc for the entire season." What Fuller said in this interview was, "I’m not involved in production, or post-production, so I can only give them the material I’ve given them and hope that it is helpful for them." Those are two different ways of saying the same thing. The story arc for the season is Fuller's, but the writing process was part of pre-production. Production means filming, and post-production means editing, FX, music, etc. So the stories are his, but he's not involved in the process of actually getting them filmed, edited, etc. And a lot of executive producers are not direct, hands-on participants in the day-to-day making of a show, so there's zero contradiction there. So there were no false claims or obfuscations. Both statements are completely consistent with each other, though I can see how they could be misconstrued by laypeople.

2. Why did this happen at all? The timeline had to have been known before Fuller agreed. He got to assemble the team, so he clearly was invested in Discovery, and concurrently knew of his other commitments. But as it was happening, obviously he and CBS knew the timetable.

You're forgetting that the original plan was to debut the show next month, but then they postponed it until May when it turned out to be taking longer than CBS had hoped. So no, they did not know going in that the show would be delayed four months. That delay was probably what led to the scheduling conflict with Fuller's other responsibilities to American Gods and the Amazing Stories reboot he's also involved with.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

I know everyone loves him here and thinks he's a special kind of awesome, but really...I saw this coming too. CBS wanted the ball moving. He wasn't moving. Silly Twitter jokes and little teases instead of actual news. No casting. The deadline had to be moved back because his attention was diverted and he had other projects on the burner.

Web-streaming or not, this is a network show on "America's Most Watched Network." They want progress.

So...oh well.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Those are two different ways of saying the same thing

"He remains an executive producer", is not a different way to say, and certainly not the same thing as, "I’m not involved in production, or post-production", however we may want to spin it.

Which was why the show didn't completely go to hell until season 3.

So, in other words, you're telling us that Discovery won't become shit until Season 2. That's comforting!

 

[Christopher]

I know everyone loves him here and thinks he's a special kind of awesome, but really...I saw this coming too. CBS wanted the ball moving. He wasn't moving. Silly Twitter jokes and little teases instead of actual news. No casting. The deadline had to be moved back because his attention was diverted and he had other projects on the burner.

Yup. There's no dark conspiracy here, it's just the way the business works when you're successful and have a lot of projects in the air at the same time. Sometimes schedules conflict and something has to give. It happens all the time in Hollywood.

But the characters are Fuller's. The concept is Fuller's. The season's storyline is Fuller's. The approach to the universe is Fuller's. The foundations of what we'll be getting are his, even if other people are in charge of the execution.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Maybe the show will benefit. Fresh ideas and all. 2001 was a long time ago. still bummed but always wanna find a silver linning.

 

[Mudd]

"He remains an executive producer", is not a different way to say, and certainly not the same thing as, "I’m not involved in production, or post-production", however we may want to spin it.

If you just read the words and not all those spaces in between it pretty much is the same thing, yes.

 

[The Wormhole]

. Say what you will about Roddenberry and Berman's decisions over the years, but their commitment to Trek was full and total.

And Trek was stagnating at the end of their reigns. Hell, Roddenberry continued to loom over the franchise from beyond the grave up until Enterprise ended, and even now still does. Neither are what TV executives should be.

You're right. I'm not a fan of Doctor Who, but from what I know of it since it came back on air they have always plumped for people who are really completely committed 100% fans to run it. It seems to of worked. It still as popular and high quality a show now as when it returned to TV.

That's debateable. True, the three showrunners selected since the show's return have been big fans of the show, they were more selected because they were professional TV producers with a few successful shows under their belt. Besides, RTD knew that after five years it was time to move on, and refused a dump-truck filled with cash BBC backed to his front door to stay. Current showrunner Moffat is spent and burnt-out, it's showing in his scripts, and the fact he's been persuaded to stay for another season against his wishes isn't going to help the show, which hemorrhaged viewers last year to such a serious degree, BBC actually revealed the plot twist for the finale in hopes that it would increase the ratings (it didn't). The coming showrunner Chibnall is going to be interesting, the guy ran the wildly popular Broadchurch, but his previous work in Doctor Who and its spin-off Torchwood aren't held in high esteem among fandom.

I know everyone loves him here and thinks he's a special kind of awesome, but really...I saw this coming too. CBS wanted the ball moving. He wasn't moving. Silly Twitter jokes and little teases instead of actual news. No casting. The deadline had to be moved back because his attention was diverted and he had other projects on the burner.

Web-streaming or not, this is a network show on "America's Most Watched Network." They want progress.

So...oh well.

On the other hand, this is exactly how Team Abrams did things on their first two movies, and fandom lapped it up saying things like "this is how art is made." Why was it okay for them, but not okay for this show?

 

[Christopher]

That's debateable. True, the three showrunners selected since the show's return have been big fans of the show, they were more selected because they were professional TV producers with a few successful shows under their belt.

Yes. The idea that fans make better creators is naive. Being a football fan doesn't make you a good football player. Being a fan of popular music doesn't make you a musician. So why should fandom have anything to do with quality in writing? Professions aren't about what you like, they're about what you do well and what you work hard at.

Then there's the oft-expressed assumption that only a fan can know a franchise well enough to get it right. That ignores the fact that there is such a thing as research. Nicholas Meyer wasn't a Star Trek fan, but he and Harve Bennett watched the entire series as research for The Wrath of Khan and that gave them the understanding they needed. I wasn't much of a fan of Enterprise when I was hired to do the first Rise of the Federation book, but I rewatched the series twice in preparation and got to know it and like (much of) it a lot better. And I do just as much research for books about the Trek series I like the most. Because this is a job, not a hobby, and just liking a thing does not translate to putting in the work to do it well.

Honestly, I think Doctor Who has suffered from Moffat's excessive fannishness. He's too much in love with the Doctor as a character and with the tropes of the franchise, so he's created a universe where everyone is just as obsessed with the Doctor and his tropes as he is, where everything revolves around the Doctor and exists to respond to or deconstruct him. A little more objectivity and perspective would make for more balanced, less repetitive storytelling.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

On the other hand, this is exactly how Team Abrams did things on their first two movies, and fandom lapped it up saying things like "this is how art is made." Why was it okay for them, but not okay for this show?

I wasn't a fan of Abrams' marketing strategy on ST XI. So I for one didn't lap it up. And also, Abrams made his movie on time. The movie was done. Paramount delayed the release for strategic reasons, not production reasons. They didn't futz around. They stuck to a deadline.

And really, while I did adore Pushing Daisies when it was on, what has Bryan Fuller really done as showrunner? His filmography is full of cancelled shows and short stints. Seems to me that this would've happened sooner or later, anyway.

 

[The Wormhole]

They stuck to a deadline.

Not so with STID. That was delayed due to the script taking two and a half years to write, despite the fact that in April 2009 Orci claimed it would be done "by the end of the month," a line he repeated in interviews until the script actually was done in November 2011. The problem there was, according the book The 50 Year Mission, they actually spent a whole year arguing over whether or not they should use Khan.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

^ You have a point with the production delays of Into Darkness. But I guess they earned leeway after the success of STXI. You know more than I do about how pleased or displeased Paramount was with that, since I have not read that book.

In any case, CBS needed to give this guy a kick in his backside. It's been obvious to me for awhile.

 

[Christopher]

And really, while I did adore Pushing Daisies when it was on, what has Bryan Fuller really done as showrunner? His filmography is full of cancelled shows and short stints. Seems to me that this would've happened sooner or later, anyway.

But all his shows were critically acclaimed, even if they were too quirky or daring for audiences or executives to be comfortable with. The one season of Heroes that he worked on (the first) is widely regarded as its only really good season, and he wrote the single most admired episode of the show, "Company Man." Pushing Daisies won seven Emmys, and Hannibal won an Emmy and several Saturn Awards.

Those "short stints" were generally because he clashed with network executives who were uncomfortable with his plans to include gay characters, and the execs won the fights and pushed him out. On both Dead Like Me and Heroes, the shows' quality took a dive once he was gone. It's a different time now, with gay characters being commonplace, and with Fuller having more clout than he had back then. He's very much in demand now -- so much so that he's developing three series at once and had to let one go in order to do justice to another. It's not the same situation at all. Before, he was pushed out because he wasn't a big enough name to get his way; now, he had to step back because he's too big a name.

 

[Shalashaska]

Is that really so hard to believe? I mean, sure, working on Trek is a big deal and all, but working on the adaptation of one of Neil Gaiman's most acclaimed novels is a big deal too. And he probably has more creative freedom on the latter, since he's coming in on the ground floor. I don't care how big a fan of a 50-year-old franchise you are -- if you're a writer, then the prospect of getting to define and shape an entirely new universe from the ground up is going to be more enticing than the prospect of continuing a universe that's already very well-defined. Because this is a career, not a hobby, so what you're a fan of is secondary to what can advance your career or challenge you as a creator.

American Gods is a great show to be the lead writer on, I'm sure he's loving it, but ever since he joined DSC, his Twitter feed has been filled with content relating to mostly the latter and he's said in numerous interviews that he's always wanted to be a Star Trek writer more than just a TV writer.

I'm glad he has American Gods to write, I'm sure it'll be all kinds of wacky and fantastic, but I do have a hard time believing that he wouldn't give it up for Star Trek which, with all things said and done, it seems like he's always had more of an interest in. Hell, he's been talking about doing a TOS-era show since 2009 at the least, this was quite literally his "dream project". I really wish CBS could've kept him on, it seems to be backfiring now with the process going even slower without Fuller according to Meyer.

 

[BillJ]

I'm glad he has American Gods to write, I'm sure it'll be all kinds of wacky and fantastic, but I do have a hard time believing that he wouldn't give it up for Star Trek which, with all things said and done, it seems like he's always had more of an interest in. Hell, he's been talking about doing a TOS-era show since 2009 at the least, this was quite literally his "dream project". I really wish CBS could've kept him on, it seems to be backfiring now with the process going even slower without Fuller according to Meyer.

Which I think points to creative differences between Fuller and CBS.

 

[Shalashaska]

Which I think points to creative differences between Fuller and CBS.

It's starting to look like a case of CBS having CBS'ed it up.

 

[Christopher]

American Gods is a great show to be the lead writer on, I'm sure he's loving it, but ever since he joined DSC, his Twitter feed has been filled with content relating to mostly the latter and he's said in numerous interviews that he's always wanted to be a Star Trek writer more than just a TV writer.

I'm glad he has American Gods to write, I'm sure it'll be all kinds of wacky and fantastic, but I do have a hard time believing that he wouldn't give it up for Star Trek which, with all things said and done, it seems like he's always had more of an interest in. Hell, he's been talking about doing a TOS-era show since 2009 at the least, this was quite literally his "dream project". I really wish CBS could've kept him on, it seems to be backfiring now with the process going even slower without Fuller according to Meyer.

That's the way the business works sometimes. Heck, it's the way life works -- you don't get to achieve all your dreams, because circumstances get in the way, and you have to make choices and compromises. It's nowhere near the first time that someone in Hollywood (or any other field) has had to give up a dream project because the timing was impossible to work out or because their responsibilities outweighed their wishes or because they couldn't see eye-to-eye with the decision-makers. After all, it's not just Fuller whose interests are at stake here. It's everyone else working on the shows he was hired to develop. He had to make the best choice for them, not just for himself. That's one of the differences between being a fan and being a professional. The latter comes with far more responsibilities.

Besides, sure, yes, he wants to be a Trek writer, but he's already been one. American Gods is something new. Creators need to challenge themselves, to try new things, and often that means choosing something risky and untried over something comfortable and familiar. That pretty much defines Fuller's whole career.

 

[BillJ]

It's starting to look like a case of CBS having CBS'ed it up.

That really doesn't make much sense. CBS is very successful here, and seem to know their collective audience. But, they are conservative and Discovery will be under the CBS banner.

I always had concerns whether Fuller would be able to make the Star Trek he wanted to make with CBS.

 

[Shalashaska]

That really doesn't make much sense. CBS is very successful here, and seem to know their collective audience. But, they are conservative and Discovery will be under the CBS banner.

I always had concerns whether Fuller would be able to make the Star Trek he wanted to make with CBS.

Yeah, I do remember you mentioning that a while back. I was thinking it'd be different since it's their streaming service and not the network, but maybe I was wrong.

 

[Mudd]

I was looking forward to seeing what Fuller would do, because I've liked his non-Trek work.

That said, pretty much every time an announcement has been made that they've signed on a producer or writer who worked on previous Trek shows and revivals I've had the opposite reaction than many fans - it disappoints me. If Trek is ever going to be interesting again on any terms other than nostalgia and pandering the people creating it need to approach it in fresh terms, preferably as outsiders. The nuTrek movies - admittedly rather nostalgic themselves - have benefited tremendously from a willingness to rethink or throw out a lot of stuff.

Get new people in there, the more the better.