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Friday, December 21, 2012...

Johnny Rico

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
...or the End of the World.

According to the ancient Mayan calendar, the world as we know it will come to an end on Friday, December 21st, 2012.

The Mayans were fanatics when it came to measuring time, and through many different astrological events, they were able to predict the end of the world as we know it.

This exact date has also been "confirmed" by several other prophetic oracles. One was a Chinese dude that rolled dice to come up with a code of solid and broken lines. Another was the mythical figure of Merlin himself. Several others were native American Indians.


Anyway, so what exactly is this "end of fthe world"? Well, supposedly every 26,000 years the Earth completes a cycle of its axis wobble, in which then the poles shift. And of course when this happens all sorts of crazy things happen. The electro-magnetic field of the Earth changes, and the equator shifts location. One prediction is that the equator may run through the Mountain states of the US at a 45 degree angle going from the northwest to the southeast. Which would then put Europe at the North Pole!

This date is also the exact time that the Sun and Earth will allign on the Galactic Plain with the Galctic Center. That alone would probably cause any number of strange tidal effects if nothing else. 'Cause one of the prophecy's predictions talk about the rising waters.

So all this got me thinking...namely about Global Warming. Yeah, the ol' GW subject. And I don't mean that this thread is a pro- or con- arguement about it. If the above prophecy is true, and will happen, then doesn't it stand to reason that the reason that the globe has been steadily warming over the last decade or two (if you truely believe that kind of thing), that's it due to the fact/theory that we're rapidly approaching this cataclysmic date. And that Global Warming is not a man-made event, and that man can do little to nothing to prevent it.

Another one of the prophecy's predictions is that his period is a time of global conflict. Presumably in the Middle East as the "Oil Crisis" as they call it, becomes front and center in geo-politics.

One other point I need to make is that the Mayans believed that the Earth had gone through 4 eras and 3 deaths of eras. With this 2012 date being the end of the 4th era, and the birth of the 5th era. So actually, this 2012 date could very well just mean that the world will go through some very dramatic changes and a "Rebirth" will occur.

Well anyway, how do you all see this dire prediction of the end of the world?

Oh, I was originally thinking about entitling this thread, "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" ;)
 
Babaganoosh said:
Johnny Rico said:
...or the End of the World.

According to the ancient Mayan calendar, the world as we know it will come to an end on Friday, December 21st, 2012.

No, it won't.

How do you know?

Although it'd make a pretty good question at one of the upcoming Presidential debates. ie. "What/How do you plan on doing on Dec. 21, 2012?"
 
Shifting poles have been a relatively common occurance over the course of the Earth's existence. I have a hard time believing that they'll cause all kinds of mysterious disasters. I mean, what concrete effects would a shift like that have, and why?

And the Earth, Moon and Sun have alligned themselves countless times with each other - with some measurable effect on the tides, granted - and the same goes for the Earth, Sun and galactic centre. I mean, that stands to reason. As the Earth revolves around the Sun, there must've been times when the galactic centre was behind the sun, from our point of view. I highly doubt that that'll suddenly have disastrous effects.
 
Mark de Vries said:
Shifting poles have been a relatively common occurance over the course of the Earth's existence. I have a hard time believing that they'll cause all kinds of mysterious disasters. I mean, what concrete effects would a shift like that have, and why?

And the Earth, Moon and Sun have alligned themselves countless times with each other - with some measurable effect on the tides, granted - and the same goes for the Earth, Sun and galactic centre. I mean, that stands to reason. As the Earth revolves around the Sun, there must've been times when the galactic centre was behind the sun, from our point of view. I highly doubt that that'll suddenly have disastrous effects.

Well, since no one was around the last time it happened, who knows what will happen.

So...
 
Well it will be friday.. which means it'll be awesome because its the last day of the week! I'll go check out a film probably then maybe chill for a while and then sleep in saturday morning.

Isn't this a science and technology forum.... not a superstition forum?

You know what its really about... humans get bored really easily. Some guy was making his calendar.. probably for weeks. A pretty repetative task if you ask me. After a while he just said... fuck it, and said the world ends right here. Then he went for a refreshing mayan beer.

Now here you are 1000s of years later... posting something silly because some guy was thirsty.

:)
 
I hadn't heard that the equator will change when the poles move.

Most of these processes take a while to occur, so choosing a particular date is a bit too much detail.
 
Tombfyre said:
Well it will be friday.. which means it'll be awesome because its the last day of the week! I'll go check out a film probably then maybe chill for a while and then sleep in saturday morning.

Isn't this a science and technology forum.... not a superstition forum?

And there's sufficient evidence over the centuries that "superstition," as you put it, is merely something science hasn't figured out yet to allow scientific discussion on the subject. How would a hurricane be perceived to someone who didn't understand the scientific principles that cause them to form?

You know what its really about... humans get bored really easily. Some guy was making his calendar.. probably for weeks. A pretty repetative task if you ask me. After a while he just said... fuck it, and said the world ends right here. Then he went for a refreshing mayan beer.

Now here you are 1000s of years later... posting something silly because some guy was thirsty.

:)

Which is a perfectly legitimate theory as to why the Mayan calendar ends when it does, but that doesn't make it any more or less "silly" than the idea that it ends when it ends because the Mayans believed that would be the end of the world.

A polar shift would be pretty chaotic for the planet, yes. Granted, it's not as widely accepted theory as others, but it's there. Whether or not we give it credence depends on the evidence presented.
 
Isn't that a myth? I thought it 2012 was the end of the cycle of the Mayan calender, not the end of the actual whole calender.
 
^That's correct. It's merely the end of a cycle in the mayan calander which New Age nuts reinterpreted to mean the end of the world.
 
MIB said:
^That's correct. It's merely the end of a cycle in the mayan calander which New Age nuts reinterpreted to mean the end of the world.

Yeah, in fact, one of the "experts" on the show (oh, this was a show on the History Channel), said that this end date, was just the end of this "cycle" as such, and that it referred to another "rune" or something of the nature.

But still, this cycle could be the end of this wobble shift.

You see, I'm thinking, that 26,000 years ago, we were in the middle of an Ice Age. So what if at this end of the wobble shift, we're at a Global Warming trend?
 
Johnny Rico said:
...or the End of the World.

According to the ancient Mayan calendar, the world as we know it will come to an end on Friday, December 21st, 2012.

That is a misinterpretation of how the Mayan calendar actually works. The claim arises from the idea that a baktun, the chronological period that comes to an end at that point on the calendar, is the largest period size in existence in that calendar, when in fact there are fully 14 longer cycles in Mayan chronology, enough to encompass tens of billions of years.

The question is weather the Maya understood that time existed and could be measured beyond 2012. Evidence points from that this is so. There is confirmed by a date from Palenque, which projects forward in time to 1.0.0.0.0.0, that is the first piktun after the Maya zero date, which will occur on October 13, 4772. This was the Palenque king Pacal predicting that his crowning would be commemorated 4160 years after it happened. That is some ego.

Moreover, in the one surviving Prehispanic Maya text of creation, the Popol Vuh, there is no sense that the world as we know it would end.
http://elcalizazul.squarespace.com/the-blue-chalice-english/2005/12/30/get-ready-for-baktun-13.html

Wikipedia adds:

"For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle," says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Fla. To render Dec. 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_Long_Count_calendar#2012_and_the_Long_Count


This exact date has also been "confirmed" by several other prophetic oracles. One was a Chinese dude that rolled dice to come up with a code of solid and broken lines.

You seem to be trying to refer to the I Ching here. There was no "Chinese dude" who predicted that the world would end in 2012; rather, there was a man named Terrance McKenna who, in the 1970s, invented a theory of "the ebb and flow of the universe" based on a variety of things including the King Wen sequence of the I Ching. This model showed the universe reaching a "singularity of novelty" on December 21, 2012. This predicts a fundamental change overtaking the universe on that date, but that prediction is less than 40 years old and was made up by a guy who pretty much spent the '60s and '70s stoned.

Another was the mythical figure of Merlin himself.

Merlin, as you say, was mythical. He's a literary figure developed by generations of English and French authors, perhaps loosely based on a druid advisor to a Celtic chieftain and on a misinterpretation of Myrddin, the name of a seaside fort that may have been the birthplace of the historical antecedent of the mythical King Arthur. I'm not aware of anything in Arthurian lore that has Merlin predicting the end of the world.


Anyway, so what exactly is this "end of fthe world"? Well, supposedly every 26,000 years the Earth completes a cycle of its axis wobble, in which then the poles shift. And of course when this happens all sorts of crazy things happen. The electro-magnetic field of the Earth changes, and the equator shifts location. One prediction is that the equator may run through the Mountain states of the US at a 45 degree angle going from the northwest to the southeast. Which would then put Europe at the North Pole!

You're confusing geographic poles with magnetic poles. The equator is not a function of the Earth's magnetic field, but of its physical shape. The magnetic poles are constantly migrating, currently at a rate of 40 kilometers per year, but the geographic poles and the equator remain exactly where they are.

Also, the geomagnetic reversal is not something that happens in a single day. The Earth's field is gradually weakening already, and if it continues at its present rate, then the Earth's magnetic field should vanish completely in 1-2000 years, then gradually regenerate in the opposite polarity over the following few millennia.

This date is also the exact time that the Sun and Earth will allign on the Galactic Plain with the Galctic Center. That alone would probably cause any number of strange tidal effects if nothing else. 'Cause one of the prophecy's predictions talk about the rising waters.

Well, it does look like the Sun will be in roughly the direction of the Galactic Center as seen from Earth on that date in 2012 -- and on that date in 2011, in 2010, and so on. The Solar System is moving slowly enough that its orientation relative to the galaxy as a whole is not going to change that much across a few years, or even a few centuries.

As for the galactic plane, it is estimated that we move back and forth across it on a cycle of about 33 million years, and many astronomers estimate we crossed it sometime between 1 and 3 million years ago. However, our understanding of galactic geography is incomplete enough that we don't actually know where it is or when the last crossing occurred. In any case, it would not take a single day, and any effects it had would be gradually felt over the course of thousands or millions of years. Any effect on Earth itself would be minor.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=576560

Another one of the prophecy's predictions is that his period is a time of global conflict.

That's always a safe bet for any alleged prophet. Name an era that hasn't been a time of global conflict.


People have been predicting the imminent end of the world since the Book of Revelations was written, and probably even before then. There's been a strong apocalyptic impulse in Western civilization for quite a while. Maybe it's hard for people to imagine the world continuing to exist after they're gone, or maybe it's just frustration with the problems of the world that leads people to imagine it changing into something fundamentally different within their lifetimes. But there have been countless such "theories" for how and when the world is going to end, and their adherents pick and choose and reinterpret evidence in whatever way suits their beliefs.

In this case, people who were predisposed to believe in the imminent end of the world probably learned about McKenna's novelty theory and noted the coincidence that its "singularity of novelty" occurred within a day of the end of the current baktun cycle of the Mayan calendar. So they conflated them, reading the idea of "the end of the world as we know it" into the Mayan belief system. And subsequently, people have looked for other things they could link in as further "evidence," distorting the facts to fit when necessary. They found that the Sun appears in front of the center of the galaxy on that date, and perhaps ascribed great importance to that without checking further to discover that it happens every year on roughly that date. They heard things about cycles in the magnetic field or the Earth's passage through the galactic plane, but had only a vague understanding of the time scale of those things and plugged them into their pre-existing belief in 12/21/2012 as a chiliastic date -- or else deliberately distorted the facts in order to reinforce their claims.

But the facts are still there to be discovered. Read and enjoy. ;)
 
TerriO said:
Tombfyre said:
Well it will be friday.. which means it'll be awesome because its the last day of the week! I'll go check out a film probably then maybe chill for a while and then sleep in saturday morning.

Isn't this a science and technology forum.... not a superstition forum?

And there's sufficient evidence over the centuries that "superstition," as you put it, is merely something science hasn't figured out yet to allow scientific discussion on the subject. How would a hurricane be perceived to someone who didn't understand the scientific principles that cause them to form?

You know what its really about... humans get bored really easily. Some guy was making his calendar.. probably for weeks. A pretty repetative task if you ask me. After a while he just said... fuck it, and said the world ends right here. Then he went for a refreshing mayan beer.

Now here you are 1000s of years later... posting something silly because some guy was thirsty.

:)

Which is a perfectly legitimate theory as to why the Mayan calendar ends when it does, but that doesn't make it any more or less "silly" than the idea that it ends when it ends because the Mayans believed that would be the end of the world.

A polar shift would be pretty chaotic for the planet, yes. Granted, it's not as widely accepted theory as others, but it's there. Whether or not we give it credence depends on the evidence presented.

Thanks Terri...

Actually, what's interesting about the Mayan calender thing is that it's on this circluar tablet. Think something like any numerous Stargate "Ancient" tablets. And that "the end" is at the tablet's center. My first reaction was like "Hell, they just ran out of room on their tablet thingy. And said, fuck...now what do we do? Well, we could always say the world is gonna end here." :D

No but really, this date was backed up by numerous other people's calculations as well, so who knows...the next time you have a job interview and they ask you, "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" Tell them..."Dunno...depends on the world."
 
Christopher said:
Also, the geomagnetic reversal is not something that happens in a single day. The Earth's field is gradually weakening already, and if it continues at its present rate, then the Earth's magnetic field should vanish completely in 1-2000 years, then gradually regenerate in the opposite polarity over the following few millennia.

Don't we need that thing for protection from solar wind and the like?
 
Lindley said:
Christopher said:
Also, the geomagnetic reversal is not something that happens in a single day. The Earth's field is gradually weakening already, and if it continues at its present rate, then the Earth's magnetic field should vanish completely in 1-2000 years, then gradually regenerate in the opposite polarity over the following few millennia.

Don't we need that thing for protection from solar wind and the like?

From the last documentary I saw about it, it doesn't vanish completely. Just some areas actually change to the opposite polarity. Basically everything weakens, patches change polarity, then it flips while its at its weakest, but with patches remaining in the other polarity while the field strengthens again.

That's probably very simplified, and wrong because I'm going off a memory that's a couple of years old. :lol:
 
Lindley said:
Don't we need that thing for protection from solar wind and the like?

To some extent, yes, though the atmosphere provides protection as well. Electronics and radio communications might be adversely affected.
 
Lindley said:
Don't we need that thing for protection from solar wind and the like?

I once read an article that expressed concern that the weakening of the Earth's magnetosphere could render it extra vulnerable to nearby gamma ray bursts.

I suspect there are more important things to worry about.
 
WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!



Crap we are all gonna die anyway..what's so damn special about an expiration date ...There was one Christian sect that predicted the end time to be sometime in 1843..when the world didn't end on the date predicted,they "recalculated" it to 1844...And does anyone here remember the entire Y2K debacle?..since I've been alive, there have been many predictions about the "end of the world" and NONE have had that dire result..


Now despite the hype, Global Warming will not result in the extinction of the Human race...nor would volcanic activity or pole shifting.. or anything short of an asteroid strike or other such all global life killer event..we could be knocked back in population and technological level..(Stone age anyone?) but the race will survive..hell my Star Trek Ship's of the Line calender ran out this year to no ill effects..(well maybe one because I need to spend money to purchase another one)...I guess that Mayan calender will simply need to be purchased again at a Mayan calender store..
 
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