http://www.thefutoncritic.com/showatch/frequency/listings/
Did anybody else watch the pilot? I enjoyed it more than I expected.
Frequency -- Season 1 on the CW
- Thread starter Snaploud
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http://www.thefutoncritic.com/showatch/frequency/listings/
Did anybody else watch the pilot? I enjoyed it more than I expected.
I wasn't thrilled by it, and I was tempted to tune out more than once. I've never found Peyton List particularly appealing; she's attractive, but a little cold. And the guy playing her father is pretty creepy. None of the other actors did much for me either, aside from a couple of Vancouver stalwarts in minor roles, Garry Chalk and Jennifer Spence. (I saw what appeared to be some exteriors shot in NYC, but evidently it's a Vancouver-based production. I guess either they went to NYC for a few scenes, or they did the backgrounds digitally.) And I just saw the same plot dynamic of a lead finding out that her meddling with time travel has caused a member of her family to cease to exist in NBC's Timeless two days ago.
The premise is kind of ridiculous. I hate time-travel stories where changing something in the past causes it to change in front of an observer's eyes in the future; that just makes no damn sense. And it's a pretty huge coincidence that the interval spanned by this time warp just happens to be exactly 20 years to the day, and apparently even to the minute.
And the story wasn't even consistent with its own rules. If Raimy remembered both the old and new histories simultaneously, why didn't she remember that she'd never met her boyfriend and that her mother was murdered?
At this point, I don't feel inclined to keep watching.
The premise is kind of ridiculous. I hate time-travel stories where changing something in the past causes it to change in front of an observer's eyes in the future; that just makes no damn sense. And it's a pretty huge coincidence that the interval spanned by this time warp just happens to be exactly 20 years to the day, and apparently even to the minute.
And the story wasn't even consistent with its own rules. If Raimy remembered both the old and new histories simultaneously, why didn't she remember that she'd never met her boyfriend and that her mother was murdered?
At this point, I don't feel inclined to keep watching.
Another one-season show for Peyton List? We'll see. I don't know how they'll milk this.
I was wondering the same thing. If it's digital enhancement, I'm very impressed.
Was it that accurate? I got to thinking that the exactness could be based on 20 revolutions around the sun. Had to come up with some rationale.
I tried to get into it, but found it kind of boring.
It's been years since I last saw it, but I remember liking the film. While it certainly required total suspension of belief, it was still a warm and charming experience. This had none of that.
It's been years since I last saw it, but I remember liking the film. While it certainly required total suspension of belief, it was still a warm and charming experience. This had none of that.
I had that impression, since they seemed to have the same definitions of "today" and "tomorrow," and they both seem to experience day or night at the same time. And in the montage leading up to the hit on her father, we got a shot or two of adult Raimy looking nervously at a clock, as if she knew it was counting down to the moment of her father's shooting.
Plus, of course, it's less confusing for the audience if the time of day is synched up. It saves the writers from having to show the characters working out the conversions and lets them get on with the story. Same reason they went for 20 years to the day instead of 19.384 years.
In that case, if we assume it's based on the sidereal year, they'd be out of sync by about 3 hours. That's how much discrepancy builds up between the calendar and the sidereal cycle over 20 years. But why 20 revolutions? Multiples of 10 only seem like "round" numbers to us because we have 10 fingers. There's no fundamental physical reason why a number like 20 would be favored over 18 or 24 or 6π or something.
Plus, of course, the Sun is moving through space, so the Earth never passes through the same point in space twice. This is something that almost all time-travel stories overlook -- that movement through time requires movement through space as well. So it couldn't be that they're occupying the same point in space at different times.
Unfortunately these flaws were imported into the series from the feature film. It's a shame the series didn't try to fix them.
I've never seen the movie. It never struck me as all that interesting. Honestly, I think the only reason I bothered to watch the pilot is because it premiered two days after Timeless and I was morbidly curious to compare the two. Although they have little in common aside from the beat of the protagonist discovering the loss of a family member due to the timeline shift. (Which was also in the movie Frequency 16 years ago, making Timeless seem even more derivative than it already did.)
I wouldn't call that a recent trend. It's been part of a lot of time travel fiction for generations. Two of the ur-examples are Ray Bradbury's "A Sound of Thunder" from 1952 and Isaac Asimov's The End of Eternity from 1955.
I rather liked the Time Tunnel remake pilot. It's too bad it wasn't picked up.
I did see the movie when it came out. I thought it was ok at best. There was no logic in how communications with the past change history. But that at least was a single film, that you watch and do not think about afterwards.
I can't even imagine how this premise would work on a weekly series. It will getting frustrating very fast. The movie had actors I like, this show does not. I have no intention of ever watching it.
I can't even imagine how this premise would work on a weekly series. It will getting frustrating very fast. The movie had actors I like, this show does not. I have no intention of ever watching it.
I enjoyed the movie this was based on. So I enjoyed this version as well. Like with any time travel show, each has its own rules and issues to pick apart. At least with Frequency, they show/explain what happened to the mother. In Timeless, the sister just disappears.
I've seen the same "change while you watch" dynamic used in other time-travel movies, like Looper.
Within the context of the fanciful premise of history being changeable at all, I can see the logic of the idea that once something is changed in the past, then it would change how something is in the present, of course. But actually being able to see the change happening before your eyes, right down to the radio's case smoking in 2016 because it had been burned in 1996, doesn't make much sense. As far as any present-day observer could tell, it should be as if it had always been that way.
I'm guessing the 1st half of the season will deal with catching the serial killer and then the 2nd half the corrupt cops. So far so good.
Saw the first episode and so far I'm unimpressed. Mostly it just feels like an inferior retread of the movie, with none of the charm, chemistry, subtlety or tension.
Part of the charm of the movie, at least in terms of tone was the contrast between the two timelines. The late 60's felt like the late 60's, whereas here, the mid-90's just feels like today sans smartphones and tablets. I remember that time very well, so I'm an easy sell when it comes to nostalgia from my early teens, but I'm just not feeling it here.
It also makes it a little harder to buy into a ham radio being the connection. Even more so after they switched the father's profession from fireman to undercover cop. I mean what the hell is an undercover cop in the 90's doing farting around on a ham radio anyway? If it's the isolation then I'm pretty sure they had internet chatrooms by that point. Of course IM'ing over a janky AoL client wouldn't exactly feel as immediate as voice to voice over the radio.
I'll give it another two episodes, but unless it improves dramatically, I think I'm out.
Part of the charm of the movie, at least in terms of tone was the contrast between the two timelines. The late 60's felt like the late 60's, whereas here, the mid-90's just feels like today sans smartphones and tablets. I remember that time very well, so I'm an easy sell when it comes to nostalgia from my early teens, but I'm just not feeling it here.
It also makes it a little harder to buy into a ham radio being the connection. Even more so after they switched the father's profession from fireman to undercover cop. I mean what the hell is an undercover cop in the 90's doing farting around on a ham radio anyway? If it's the isolation then I'm pretty sure they had internet chatrooms by that point. Of course IM'ing over a janky AoL client wouldn't exactly feel as immediate as voice to voice over the radio.
I'll give it another two episodes, but unless it improves dramatically, I think I'm out.
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I agree, but I am suspending disbelief for this show, as long as they are consistent with how it works. I am enjoying it so far.
The same type of "error" completely ruined the Butterfly Effect for me, because of how inconsistent it was with the rest of the movie. I can usually overlook Legends of Tomorrow, but its time travel is getting increasingly wonky as well. I'm not sure they understand what "never existed / removed from the timeline" actually means.
Yeah, the rules themselves don't make any sense, but as a non-hard science fiction show, all I really ask is that they are portrayed and used consistently. The movie did this so i enjoyed it for what it was - and it was warmer and more charming than this show has been so far. So far (of what i have seen), this show hasn't broken its established rules. As for the syncing of the timelines 20 years apart, I again like the consistency and clarity of it. It makes clear how changes are made and when they are made permanent and how they affect the future - important elements for a time travel show to establish (which "Timeless" on NBC has so far failed to do).
As for the memories, Remy not remembering her mom is dead is the same thing that happened in the movie. It is explained a little more clearly in the movie that the main character remembers both timelines, but isn't necessarily conscious of the current reality until confronted with an obvious incongruity. In the movie, the mom's death "occurred" when the main character was sleeping, so he "gained" the new memories then and didn't realize the changes were real until he tried to call her later - it felt like just a bad dream. Ditto with the fiance/girlfriend. In a show where the main character is the only one to retain two sets of memories from different timelines, that they aren't totally aware of what is real at any given moment isn't the biggest leap.
As for the memories, Remy not remembering her mom is dead is the same thing that happened in the movie. It is explained a little more clearly in the movie that the main character remembers both timelines, but isn't necessarily conscious of the current reality until confronted with an obvious incongruity. In the movie, the mom's death "occurred" when the main character was sleeping, so he "gained" the new memories then and didn't realize the changes were real until he tried to call her later - it felt like just a bad dream. Ditto with the fiance/girlfriend. In a show where the main character is the only one to retain two sets of memories from different timelines, that they aren't totally aware of what is real at any given moment isn't the biggest leap.
Yeah, that's weird to me. Why is it that the person is able to retain both sets of memories, when it's the ham radio that has the magic time-spanning power? We were shown the lightning bolt hitting the aerial just before the radio gained the ability to connect to itself in the past. Remy was nowhere near the radio when that happened. And other people besides her have used the radio. So why should she be the only one with the ability to remember both timelines? Is it because she's the one whose decisions initiated the changes? Does that mean that if someone else used the radio to send back info that altered the past, they'd be able to recognize the change and Remy wouldn't?
Yeah, I don't get the spark thing. It doesn't add anything to the plot and doesn't make any sense. The duel memories thing is just a conceit for the show to exist/function, for Raimy and Frank to bond, etc.
And I was praising the show for not breaking their own rules, then I watch the most recent episode and they blow it.
[SPOILERS, obviously]: Raimy has Goff cuffed and is about to shoot him; while in the past Frank chases Goff into traffic. Raimy should have turned around to find not only was Goff gone, but that she was back at her desk or something, with no case file on Goff since he was eliminated as suspect 20 years before and she shouldn't have had any face injury. Removing Goff should have changed her last few days of investigation. But this sets up a paradox that even the multiple memories can't pave over. If Goff died 20 years before because Frank chased him, Raimy should never had considered him the real suspect and thus wouldn't have pushed Frank to go after him so hard, thus Frank wouldn't have chased him into traffic - and there we go, paradox. The best solution for the show from the beginning would be that Frank identifies a target in the Nightingale murders, and Raimy and Frank work the problem from both ends, where Raimy's future knowledge passed back to Frank solves things for him that he wouldn't otherwise be able to do and lets him catch the bad-guy-of-the-week (Raimy could also catch guys in the future so that 1996 doesn't get all the action bits, so long as the target is initiated by Frank). This would avoid paradoxes but would require accepting an information loop (an acceptable time travel trope). It's just so frustrating that they can't even keep their premise working for 3 episodes, but I guess having the viewers see whole episodes get rewritten in front of them, erasing most of what they saw (though keeping the key points - who the bad guy was, that he wasn't the Nightingale, etc. - intact) is too much to accept from a network TV show.
Now that I think about it, the movie had the same problem in the last act where the bad guy had John pinned down and is about to shoot him. Frank changes things in the past, the guy loses his hand, then present-day Frank shoots him. After getting his hand blown off, the bad guy would have made totally different choices over the previous 30 years, including not having stayed a cop, and never would have been in the bar to be confronted by John, etc. etc. That was always the part I found that knocked me out of the story, but I have always glossed over it because the rest of the film works and is fun.
[end SPOILERS]
Thinking further on the idea of two cops in different times working both ends of mystery cases: this could be a good show concept outside of Frequency/the Nightingale murders. In fact, I remember hoping for a slightly altered version of this premise from the show "Awake", where the main character might or might not have been jumping back and forth between parallel realities. I thought it was going to be a cool approach to solving crimes if in one universe you confront a suspect, one you don't, or one universe you don't even have a suspect, or even a body, or even a crime. A detective in such a situation could actually investigate the normally impossible to investigate "what if X didn't happen" which would provide valuable information for the universe where the crime did happen. But the show didn't investigate that and instead started to head into the rather cliched conspiracy/mystery plot instead of sticking to the more interesting character drama aspects of which reality is real and how the view of two different realities affects the character. Then it got cancelled.
And I was praising the show for not breaking their own rules, then I watch the most recent episode and they blow it.
[SPOILERS, obviously]: Raimy has Goff cuffed and is about to shoot him; while in the past Frank chases Goff into traffic. Raimy should have turned around to find not only was Goff gone, but that she was back at her desk or something, with no case file on Goff since he was eliminated as suspect 20 years before and she shouldn't have had any face injury. Removing Goff should have changed her last few days of investigation. But this sets up a paradox that even the multiple memories can't pave over. If Goff died 20 years before because Frank chased him, Raimy should never had considered him the real suspect and thus wouldn't have pushed Frank to go after him so hard, thus Frank wouldn't have chased him into traffic - and there we go, paradox. The best solution for the show from the beginning would be that Frank identifies a target in the Nightingale murders, and Raimy and Frank work the problem from both ends, where Raimy's future knowledge passed back to Frank solves things for him that he wouldn't otherwise be able to do and lets him catch the bad-guy-of-the-week (Raimy could also catch guys in the future so that 1996 doesn't get all the action bits, so long as the target is initiated by Frank). This would avoid paradoxes but would require accepting an information loop (an acceptable time travel trope). It's just so frustrating that they can't even keep their premise working for 3 episodes, but I guess having the viewers see whole episodes get rewritten in front of them, erasing most of what they saw (though keeping the key points - who the bad guy was, that he wasn't the Nightingale, etc. - intact) is too much to accept from a network TV show.
Now that I think about it, the movie had the same problem in the last act where the bad guy had John pinned down and is about to shoot him. Frank changes things in the past, the guy loses his hand, then present-day Frank shoots him. After getting his hand blown off, the bad guy would have made totally different choices over the previous 30 years, including not having stayed a cop, and never would have been in the bar to be confronted by John, etc. etc. That was always the part I found that knocked me out of the story, but I have always glossed over it because the rest of the film works and is fun.
[end SPOILERS]
Thinking further on the idea of two cops in different times working both ends of mystery cases: this could be a good show concept outside of Frequency/the Nightingale murders. In fact, I remember hoping for a slightly altered version of this premise from the show "Awake", where the main character might or might not have been jumping back and forth between parallel realities. I thought it was going to be a cool approach to solving crimes if in one universe you confront a suspect, one you don't, or one universe you don't even have a suspect, or even a body, or even a crime. A detective in such a situation could actually investigate the normally impossible to investigate "what if X didn't happen" which would provide valuable information for the universe where the crime did happen. But the show didn't investigate that and instead started to head into the rather cliched conspiracy/mystery plot instead of sticking to the more interesting character drama aspects of which reality is real and how the view of two different realities affects the character. Then it got cancelled.
Its still pretty consistant. She is physically/mentally protected from everything so her location and injuries stay consistant, even if there is no longer a reason for her to have been there. Now, if I wanted to be nitpicky, then yes, her car should probably have disappeared, and she should have needed to call for a ride from where she was, but I had no problem with the rewrite not affecting her. The two timelines are obviously synched in real time, and both of them are conscious of whats going on, so there doesn't need to be any casuality loops and paradoxes in play. You can't remove a physical action once it has been taken in real-time. Its not standard time manipulation.
I am still enjoying the show.
Agreed with Awake... it never made sense why all of the partners and cases were *completely* different between the two worlds. It was a good show, but once I knew it was getting cancelled, I didn't watch the last few episodes, since I was sure it would end with unexplained stuff or on a cliffhanger. Definitely lost potential there.
I am still enjoying the show.
Agreed with Awake... it never made sense why all of the partners and cases were *completely* different between the two worlds. It was a good show, but once I knew it was getting cancelled, I didn't watch the last few episodes, since I was sure it would end with unexplained stuff or on a cliffhanger. Definitely lost potential there.
I can't agree here. They show already showed that they could remove physical actions. When Raimy returns to Goff's family house, someone else lives there and has for the past 20 years. The Goffs tore down the shed and buried the trap door. Those physical things were changed, not just Raimy's memory of them. The writers (and everyone else working on the show) just forgot/overlooked how much things should change with the death of Goff in 1996.