In other words, by the end of this DSC season, we'll have reached the equivalent of "Elementary, Dear Data".*
Sounds about right.
*or, moving forward; DS9: Second Sight, VOY: Prototype, ENT: Minefield
News Frakes: Discovery Has “Grown The Beard”
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In other words, by the end of this DSC season, we'll have reached the equivalent of "Elementary, Dear Data".*
Sounds about right.
*or, moving forward; DS9: Second Sight, VOY: Prototype, ENT: Minefield
No growth? She blamed herself for her parent's deaths and then finds pout it was never her fauklt, and her parents were lying to her because they were Section 31 <--- And we see her having to deal with that, as well as the fact her mother was still alive; but while watching her, never told her util she had no choice?
From Season 1 - she tried to be Vulcan (to please Sarek) - does well enough on a test to become part of the Vulcan Expeditionary force but is denied because her Father chooses to leave the spot for his biological son - but Sarek leaves her with the impression she FAILED to do well enough to get a spot - and again we see her have to deal with that reveal.
Compared to TNG - where besides the occasional Worf situation in the same vein as abov (IE Some emotionally cataclysmic aspect of his family's past...); the most 'character development' we got in TNG were examples like:
- Picard hates kids.
- Picard's family owns a vineyard and his brother makes wine.
- Picard was studying to be an Archaeologist before he went for a career in Starfleet.
- Riker wanted to make Captain prior to age 30 (Yet passed up a Command of his own to be First Officer on the Enterprise; and passed on two other such offers during the run of the TNG TV series.
- Riker Is from Alaska and has Daddy issues.
-Riker grew a Beard.
(And I'm keeping it to the first two TNG seasons although by comparison TNG had 46 episodes at that point and ST: D to this point had 28 (will have had 29 or even 30 if you take into account the 4 short treks add up to about 1 full episode).
Yeah, no actual character development of Burnham during the first 28 episodes in comparison? Give me a break.
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Ha, agreed. I loved TNG but those weren't exactly the deepest or richest characters in Trek history. And most of the development seemed to come simply from the actors relaxing more into their roles over time and letting their own personalities gradually seep in.
It's still early, but I think we've seen plenty of growth from Burnham so far, especially in how she went from being this hardened, demoralized criminal unable to make connections with people to someone who's made lasting friendships with most of the crew.
It's still early, but I think we've seen plenty of growth from Burnham so far, especially in how she went from being this hardened, demoralized criminal unable to make connections with people to someone who's made lasting friendships with most of the crew.
Comparing to TNG characters is strange, as they weren't in a serialized melodrama. Episodic stories do not demand great character growth, but rather interesting stories. Serialized melodrama requires character growth/change.
Yes, Burnham has had more things happen to her than Worf, yet she remains no more well defined in the writers room except as a plot piece to move from point A to point B.
The comparison to Janeway is apt: the actress is propping up the characterization that is all over the map on the page.
To the point of this thread: DSC has improved its production, but the writing is still adrift in ideas presented as story when really they are only pieces of plot.
No beard yet, but certainly trying on a fake beard to check themselves out in the mirror with intentions of growing one next year.
*Edit to add* The production team has certainly found their groove, so as a director I'm certain Frakes isn't just blowing smoke. If the writing was at the level the production team is operating...
Yes, Burnham has had more things happen to her than Worf, yet she remains no more well defined in the writers room except as a plot piece to move from point A to point B.
The comparison to Janeway is apt: the actress is propping up the characterization that is all over the map on the page.
To the point of this thread: DSC has improved its production, but the writing is still adrift in ideas presented as story when really they are only pieces of plot.
No beard yet, but certainly trying on a fake beard to check themselves out in the mirror with intentions of growing one next year.
*Edit to add* The production team has certainly found their groove, so as a director I'm certain Frakes isn't just blowing smoke. If the writing was at the level the production team is operating...
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Not only that but when you look at character development with a show like TNG is the development often comes by simply the sheer amount of time you see them. Data's complexity doesn't come from his back story but how he interacts with the crew and the many stories he gets where the backstory is being built on the fly.
When TNG started Data didn't have a brother,homeworld, we never saw his creator, a sleep program a chance to be in command for the first time,a best friend in Geordi the possibility to kill on cold blood a daughter etc. The sheer amount of episodes and attention and even giving a actor like Spiner to adjust his performance which you can see really happen in season 3 compared to season 1 and 2 Data all eventually gives the character depth. Discovery characters don't get that level of development. Few episodes, attention needed for plot and arc stuff, even more attention for Burnham since she is the focus of everything.
To me the show could use more character driven moments like hanging out. Even a shared hobby. Anyone notice the show doesn't really have it's version of the Poker game or Vic's place etc It's very rare to just see the characters hanging out and do regular stuff or having fun. Not every episode or moment needs to be life or death and Burnham doesn't have to always be sulking to show us how deep she is as a person. How about next year everyone really gets in Parisis Square and someone puts up a court in one of the hangar bays or something.
Jason
When TNG started Data didn't have a brother,homeworld, we never saw his creator, a sleep program a chance to be in command for the first time,a best friend in Geordi the possibility to kill on cold blood a daughter etc. The sheer amount of episodes and attention and even giving a actor like Spiner to adjust his performance which you can see really happen in season 3 compared to season 1 and 2 Data all eventually gives the character depth. Discovery characters don't get that level of development. Few episodes, attention needed for plot and arc stuff, even more attention for Burnham since she is the focus of everything.
To me the show could use more character driven moments like hanging out. Even a shared hobby. Anyone notice the show doesn't really have it's version of the Poker game or Vic's place etc It's very rare to just see the characters hanging out and do regular stuff or having fun. Not every episode or moment needs to be life or death and Burnham doesn't have to always be sulking to show us how deep she is as a person. How about next year everyone really gets in Parisis Square and someone puts up a court in one of the hangar bays or something.
Jason
I thought season one had its good and bad moments. A few things I really liked about it but also I hated the handling of the Klingons and that they went to the MU.
Season two I think is very strong overall with far smaller weaknesses and a huge improvement.
Season two I think is very strong overall with far smaller weaknesses and a huge improvement.
It’s had easily the best first two seasons of any Trek series since TOS as far as I’m concerned. After a wobbly first two episodes, the beard has been in place since Context is for Kings.
I would like more time spent on character moments - they’re interesting characters played by good actors, but they need a bit of time to be themselves without the pressing demands of the immediate plot.
I would like more time spent on character moments - they’re interesting characters played by good actors, but they need a bit of time to be themselves without the pressing demands of the immediate plot.
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