News Frakes: Discovery Has “Grown The Beard”

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by AutoAdmin, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. AutoAdmin

    AutoAdmin Machine of Death Administrator

    Dec 24, 2002
    A new news article has been published at TrekToday:

    In a new interview with TrekMovie, Jonathan Frakes spoke about the improvement in Star Trek: Discovery during the second season. Frakes agrees...

    Continue reading...
  2. urbandk

    urbandk Commodore Commodore

    Aug 20, 2008
    DFW, Texas
    Peck might have had something to do with that.
    Cutie McWhiskers and Rahul like this.
  3. starbuck

    starbuck Captain Captain

    Sep 6, 2001
    Still has some way to go but for me pike and the little we see of enterprise has me watching it
  4. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Nov 5, 2008
    King Daniel Beyond
    I'm glad Discovery found it's footing this season, and happy it was soon enough to warrant a third season.

    (He says, still mildly afraid they'll screw up the big finale)
    Spaceship Jo, cultcross and Rahul like this.
  5. guyute03

    guyute03 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Feb 27, 2003
    Some beach, east coast USA
    Season 2 has been a definite improvement over season 1. I did enjoy season 1 but Anson Mount and the other new characters & actors have only enriched it that much more. I didn't expect it but Pike is probably my favorite character on the show right now.
    cultcross, burningoil and Jadeb like this.
  6. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 21, 2017
    I feel the show has improved a great deal. I I even am starting to like Burnham more and if they simply didn't make everything about her I think I would like her even more. I think she has become a capable lead but not on a Dr House level where everything has to come back to her. It should be noted also that Riker grew his beard in season 2. If season 3 is this big change by going to the future like some predict than that could also be their true "grow the beard" moment. People start talking about how the show was fine in the early days but it didn't become great until they stopped being a prequel.

    Bay17 likes this.
  7. Starflight

    Starflight Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Jan 21, 2017
    It's a big improvement over the first series, which IMO was genuinely just awful.

    Interesting that Frakes thinks Burnham is a strong point of the series, because she's one of the weak points for me. Not because of the usual complaints of her being too central to everything (she is, but it doesn't bother me), and not because of SMG's performance (I applaud SMG's performance for keeping Burnham relatively consistent, given what the scripts sometimes give her to work with). My complaint is that I still feel like I don't know the character even after all this time.

    It's fascinating to see how people are writing her in fanfiction, because nobody can really get a clear handle on her. She feels a lot like Janeway, or perhaps characters like Geordi, in that the writers still haven't really given her a definite firm character, and it's fallen to the actor to try and hold it all together (Mulgrew was absolutely incredible at this). That's not good when the character in question is the series lead who we spend the most time with, especially when she personally is the central focus of the entire plot.
  8. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Moderator

    Jan 20, 2016
    ^IMO the only characters written well in Discovery fanfiction are Lorca, Pike, Young Spock and Tilly. How Burnham is written it could be any emotionally naive female officer.
  9. Bay17

    Bay17 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Jan 9, 2018
    I agree with all this. Surely season 3 has to branch out into the other characters and not be focused on Burnham again. There can’t be that much more to learn about her. Setting season 3 in the future gives them a chance to do all sorts of stories, rather than the first two seasons which are essentially Burnham’s backstory
  10. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Aug 21, 2011
    The Black Country, England
    I loved season one.

    I love season two even more.

    I don't love either as much as DS9.

    But I might get there....
  11. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

    Nov 2, 2014
    That's the million dollar question right now, isn't it?

    I would agree with Frakes - at this point. I, too, think the series has found a solid footing this season.

    I just hope they stand and improven on this footing, and don't decide to do something completely stupid and change their entire stance on everything in the finale...
  12. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 21, 2017
    I don't know what they are going to do next year but I wouldn't mind if the show next season split the cast up and you had ongoing stories. If they go to the future maybe some are stuck on a alien planet most of the year while elsewhere Burnham is and Tilly are operating with a timeship crew that travels through time or something like that. In essence by two different stories you would have one that wouldn't involve Burnham making perhaps Stamets and Lorca as the main focus of it, meanwhile Burnham can still have her thing which I think finding her mom is going to be a big arc next year. I really think next season is going to be about time travel and giving Burnham a quest.

    Bay17 likes this.
  13. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Mar 15, 2017
    Season 2 was much better than Season 1. But I think that's because it tied more into the original series, and I'm giving most of the credit to Pike and Spock.
    Terok Nor likes this.
  14. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Commodore Commodore

    Nov 3, 2009
    previously Mickmike
    I'm hoping he means this literally and we see everyone with from burnham to tilly with beards.

    don't write cheques you can't cash frakes.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  15. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    May 7, 2011
    Aug 10, 1999
    Season 2 grew on me. At first I didn't think I'd like it as much as Season 1. "Brother" had me wondering about the new direction. "New Eden" was a great episode but looked like it would fit in a little too well with Older Trek. Then "Point of Light" was the first episode of the season that felt definitively Discovery to me. But it was also a throwback to Season 1, tying up its loose ends. So I still wasn't fully sold on the new season compared to the previous one.

    "An Obol for Sharon" looked like it would step into the bizarre by finding out what was going on with Tilly and then ending up trapped in the Mycellial Network.

    Section 31 came into the picture in "An Obol for Sharon" too. As far as I was concerned, Section 31 was where all the Cool Kids hung out. Past Tense because I eventually realized it was just Georgiou who's the Cool Kid. Leland, who looks like an awesome biker who'd be right at home on Sons of Anarchy, turned out be be a pushover until Control gained control of him. Now he's like the Terminator. Control should've taken control of him sooner. Even Georgiou noticed. "Leland is authoritative, decisive, and badass all of a sudden. What's wrong here?"

    Then we get into "Saints of Imperfection" where Burnham, Stamets, and Discovery herself have to rescue Tilly from the Mycellial Network and they find Culber along the way. That was when what was starting in "An Obol for Sharon" really kicked into High Gear and turned Totally Wacky. That's the point where I was hooked into the season. I have no idea what the writers were smoking, but what turned up on screen looks great. You have to bow to the insanity of it. That may be an issue for some people, but I'm not so stuck-up about it. Wackiness is fun sometimes.

    But it can't be super-wacky all the time. "Saints of Imperfection" was more grounded but also showed the conflict between the Kelpians, the Ba'ul, and changed the Kelpians for keeps by getting rid of their Threat Ganglia across the board. And nothing was cooler than seeing the Ba'ul come up on Discovery's screen. So, at this point, I was definitely hooked. It was a different tone than Season 1, but I was onboard.

    Going back to "Brother" and "New Eden": in "Brother" when have the entire bridge crew introduce themselves -- something that was never done in Season 1 -- and in "New Eden", Owosuken was a main supporting character and they put her family's luddite background to use. Later on, we have the building subplot Airiam before she has an entire episode spotlighted on her in "Project Daedalus". In one of the early episodes of the season, we learn that Detmer's been flying since she was 12. We gradually see more interactions between the crew. Them eating, bantering. Stamets and Reno verbally sparring. Culber and Tyler having it out. Culber leaving Stamets cold after breaking off their relationship.

    And on that note: we now have three gay people in the crew: Stamets, Culber, and Reno. Georgiou has a discussion about pansexuality... that Tilly awkwardly walks in on. Discussions we've actually had in my own social circles. I have a lot of LGBT friends. I have some friends who are outright pansexual. I see myself as somewhere in-between. And it's great to see those types of conversations being had on Discovery. What we see might not seem like much, but it means something to me as a viewer. And the light, casual way they handled the exchange was perfect. It didn't feel like heavy-handed TNG Preaching.

    Some things were tied up and addressed once and for all too. The Klingons are firmly under L'Rell, the D7s look like D7s, they have their hair again, and then there's Tenavik. He and the Klingons on Boreth are nothing like any Klingons we've ever seen before. And I mean that in a good way. I want to see more of these types of Klingons. These are Magic: The Gathering Klingons. :p

    And Tyler is Tyler. It's not "Is it Ash or is it Voq?" He's not AshVoq anymore. I don't like that he was basically just Section 31's Stooge for a while but being neither Starfleet or Klingon, this seemed like a third option for him. Just a shitty third option. Who knows where this will go, but being an Operative living in the gray area seems like it would have more mileage than being a split-personality sleeper-agent Klingon whose original endgame would've been getting caught. It's a step up.

    I didn't even get into Pike, Spock, the Enterprise, or the TOS stuff yet. On purpose. I wanted to talk about things that were specifically unique to Discovery first. But for TOS elements: I feel like I know Pike a lot better than I did before and what he's like. They suitably updated the Enterprise for DSC and explained what the Enterprise was doing during The War. Talos IV was great. I like this version of Spock. And somehow, they managed to make Spock and Burnham as foster-siblings work. They fight, they argue, but they can also still get along and have a working chemistry.

    Then there's Burnham. They did indeed in fact start showing us more of her real family and that'll likely come more into play when Burnham goes into The Future and moves away from Spock's Family. The crew who are going with Burnham, who they've started to develop, will probably also come to full fruition.

    So Season 2 ended up being more than I thought the season would be... and started to show signs of what the series could be. Season 1 was just the beginning. You don't get everything all at once and that's something the Instant Gratification culture we live in needs to learn. Be patient. Wait for things to take shape. I happened to also enjoy what I was watching as it was taking shape.

    I don't think Discovery has "Grown the Beard" but I do think it's "Growing the Beard".
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  16. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Nov 17, 2011
    The Great Barrier
    I think Season 2 is overall better than Season 1, but there have been dips in quality in mid season
    As regards peoples appraisal of Anson Mount and Ethan Peck, I like Mount and his portrayal of Pike, he's the best thing in the whole season, but Peck just doesn't do it for me as Spock.
    I know that goes against the grain, but I just ain't feeling the vibe with him, maybe that's due to him not getting enough screen time, I don't know.
    The show would be a lot worse off without Pike, and to another extent, Georgiou, so when they most likely leave at season's end, it will be a big loss to the ensemble cast for Season 3.
    Jayson1 and Terok Nor like this.
  17. zar

    zar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Aug 30, 2010
    You might have nailed down why people either love or hate the character. It's by design. We don't know her because she doesn't know herself. Even from the beginning when Bryan Fuller was introducing the idea, we knew the title of the show literally referred to self-discovery. Not knowing oneself was a major theme in season 1, especially with Tyler and the mirror universe, and continued into season 2 with Culber and even Spock. It's also exactly what Frakes is raving about. It's the direction they're deliberately going in, so of course he's on board with it as a director.

    Basically, Michael being broken and confused about who she is and where she comes from is a defining trait, so we may never "know" her until the end. In the final episode, she'll say "This is my gift, my curse. Who am I? I'm Spiderman." And she'll have a beard.
  18. Starflight

    Starflight Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Jan 21, 2017
    That's true, but I feel like I can't join her on her own journey of self-discovery because I can't get enough of a read on her to relate to her in the first place. She doesn't really react to things or speak to people in a way that feels consistent, IMO. Her character is so vague and fluid that if her adventures do change her, it's difficult to tell what she's changing to and from.
    Spaceship Jo likes this.
  19. XCV330

    XCV330 _ Premium Member

    Sep 24, 2017
    As Burnham Must Suffer, becoming the new O'Brien, she must be strapped into a special Beard Growing Chair while Hirsuitifier Dishes beam painful stubbletronic particles at her as she screams for 30 minutes and Spock waves everyone away with a kill-o-zap rifle warning her crewmates "This is what she gets for taunting my facial hair. This is for the good of us all"
  20. SolarisOne

    SolarisOne Captain Captain

    Jun 7, 2016
    With respect to Frakes, as far as I'm concerned Discovery has a five o'clock shadow right now. It's (slowly) headed in a good direction, but is that because the show itself is finding its footing or because it's riding Pike's coattails? Won't know until he's gone for good. I think it might be the former, but I am well aware they could screw it up with the last episode. Their track record is extremely poor in that regard. Same shit, different day, and all that.

    Also, SMG is a great actress. They've improved the material she's had to work with this season, but I'm still not really connecting with Burnham. Y'all gonna think I'm crazy, but I think it's because she hasn't really exercised much agency since the Battle of the Binary Stars. After that one decision, she's been carried forward by events and the machinations of others. At every major turn, she's been reacting, instead of acting of her own accord. The moment this changes, may be the moment I connect with her.
    Rahul likes this.