Forget about Moffat and Chibby. Who's ready to wait 12 - 20+ months for a new series of Doctor who?

[Christopher]

I think the reason why a non fan as a producer seems so "threatening" is, because the show has so much history now and continuity (yes, even as losely as DW) and "rules", that a newbie producer/head writer who has no clue about all that couldn't possibly keep it all straight.
A non fan would have no choice, but to take only the basic concept and make his own thing with hardly any relation to what came before.

I'm sorry, but that's just staggeringly wrong. Because writers do a thing called research. If you're hired to write something about a subject you aren't already familiar with, you study it. You learn it. That's what writers do, whether they're hired to take over writing a sci-fi series or decide to write a novel about a hospital. They learn the stuff they need to know in order to write about it.

When I was contracted to write my X-Men and Spider-Man novels for Pocket, I was really only familiar with the TV cartoons and movies. I was sent copies of the Marvel encyclopedias about the characters to give me a grounding, and I did further research of my own, tracking down copies of the comics from the library, finding websites that gave information about the stories I couldn't read, etc. For my Spidey novel, I managed to get hold of the DVD-ROM collection of the entire run of The Amazing Spider-Man and read it from start to finish. And I got reviews praising my Spidey novel for its uncanny attention to detail and continuity -- even though most of the continuity I used was from stories I had never read until after I was under contract to do the novel.

This is what I was saying before, about the folly of confusing a hobby and a profession. Fans only read or watch the things they like, so what they know is contingent upon their prior interest. But writing professionally is work. So the way to think about it is in terms of how you would do your job. Getting a new job often means undergoing extensive training, learning how to do something you've never done before. It means hard work and research and acquiring new skills and knowledge.

And, seriously, in this age of DVDs and binge watching, that's easier than ever. Heck, I'm currently about three seasons into a recreational rewatch of all of classic Doctor Who from start to finish. Thanks to the Web, I'm even watching the reconstructions of the erased episodes, which I'm seeing now for the first time. So it's unaccountably bizarre to assume that someone hired to produce Doctor Who would be somehow incapable of learning about the series's past history. It's not like they'd have to begin shooting the day after they were hired. They'd have time to binge-watch the series to prepare, or at least to read summaries of the past stories from the numerous books and websites that have that information. Even if they hadn't watched the whole thing, they could just get the Beeb to send them scripts or footage of anything they needed to learn about.

That means change.
And we all know how whovians react to that.

Which also makes no sense, because there isn't a franchise in all of SFTV that's more defined by constant change and reinvention than Doctor Who. And there are few franchises that are less concerned with continuity or self-consistency.

 

[diankra]

Very few of the writers and script editors on the original series had any deeper knowledge of it than "I've seen an episode or two. Could do better." Those who did were established writers whose knowledge came down to 'what I can remember'.
Arguably, the people who did know the backplot tended to come out with stuff that worked poorly onscreen. And often contradicted the backplot.

 

[Christopher]

Very few of the writers and script editors on the original series had any deeper knowledge of it than "I've seen an episode or two. Could do better." Those who did were established writers whose knowledge came down to 'what I can remember'.

Although they generally spent a month or two under the tutelage of the people they were about to replace, learning the ropes before the transition became final. Not to mention, of course, that as BBC employees they had access to all the past scripts and production documents and recordings (at least those that weren't thrown out) and would've had a far easier time learning about the show's past than the fans of the day, who would've had to rely on memory or novelizations or homemade audio recordings.

 

[DWF]

Although they generally spent a month or two under the tutelage of the people they were about to replace, learning the ropes before the transition became final. Not to mention, of course, that as BBC employees they had access to all the past scripts and production documents and recordings (at least those that weren't thrown out) and would've had a far easier time learning about the show's past than the fans of the day, who would've had to rely on memory or novelizations or homemade audio recordings.

That's not true either, the BBC simply took Graham Williams off Target put him on Doctor Who, fired Hinchcliffe from Dcotor and put him on Target, there was no learning time. This was fairly common for the BBC.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

I read this quote at Den of Geek. It is from BBC 1 Controller Charlotte Moore. She says,

"I have decided to schedule Steven’s big finale series in Spring 2017 to bring the nation together for what will be a huge event on the channel. 2016 is spoilt with national moments including the Euros and Olympics and I want to hold something big back for 2017 – I promise it will be worth the wait!"."


Read more: http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-...s-chris-chibnall-new-showrunner#ixzz3yDNqmXBw

In 2012, both Doctor Who and the London Olympics were both on the air. It seems to me that BBC had more faith in the show then they do this year. Has the show really declined that much in viewership? It can't be because the two are competing against each other. The Olympics is a summer event, with Doctor Who having become an autumn event. And, nothing can be more national than the London Olympics, when talking about the Olympics. (I don't have much information about the Euros.)

 

[Christopher]

In 2012, both Doctor Who and the London Olympics were both on the air. It seems to me that BBC had more faith in the show then they do this year. Has the show really declined that much in viewership?

I thought I read somewhere that they were unhappy with the performance of Doctor Who when it was competing with the Olympics, so they've decided to avoid that competition this time. Not loss of faith in the show, just learning from experience.

It can't be because the two are competing against each other. The Olympics is a summer event, with Doctor Who having become an autumn event.

Maybe it's a matter of how much of the BBC's annual budget is available to be allocated to either one?

(I don't have much information about the Euros.)

Aside from a unit of currency (which I think the UK doesn't use), I'm not sure what the "Euros" might be. Could it be that Eurovision Song Contest thingy?

 

[cardinal biggles]

Aside from a unit of currency (which I think the UK doesn't use), I'm not sure what the "Euros" might be. Could it be that Eurovision Song Contest thingy?

It's the 2016 UEFA (Union of European Football Associations) European Championship. Kind of a smaller World Cup just for the European nations. It takes place from June 10 to July 10, and then you have the Rio Olympics in August. Trying to counter-program Doctor Who -- or anything else -- against those events would be risky at best.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Looking at the scheduled events, the Eurovison Song Contest is aired in May and the Summer Olympics is aired in August, If the Euros refer to UEFA Euro 2016, that is aired in July.

Both the singing contest and soccer are annual events. The Olympics occurs every four years.

Doctor Who would not be programmed against the sporting events. It would be airing in the autumn.

In sum, I am not believing what BBC 1 is saying. I am thinking that there is another reason to air one special this year and to have a complete series next year.

 

[DWF]

Looking at the scheduled events, the Eurovison Song Contest is aired in May and the Summer Olympics is aired in August, If the Euros refer to UEFA Euro 2016, that is aired in July.

Both the singing contest and soccer are annual events. The Olympics occurs every four years.

Doctor Who would not be programmed against the sporting events. It would be airing in the autumn.

In sum, I am not believing what BBC 1 is saying. I am thinking that there is another reason to air one special this year and to have a complete series next year.

I'd say Sherlock is the reason, they won't start production on the Doctor Who special til after Sherlock's filming is done. Then film the special and the season of Doctor Who after that.

 

[The Wormhole]

I read this quote at Den of Geek. It is from BBC 1 Controller Charlotte Moore. She says,

"I have decided to schedule Steven’s big finale series in Spring 2017 to bring the nation together for what will be a huge event on the channel. 2016 is spoilt with national moments including the Euros and Olympics and I want to hold something big back for 2017 – I promise it will be worth the wait!"."


Read more: http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-...s-chris-chibnall-new-showrunner#ixzz3yDNqmXBw

In 2012, both Doctor Who and the London Olympics were both on the air. It seems to me that BBC had more faith in the show then they do this year. Has the show really declined that much in viewership? It can't be because the two are competing against each other. The Olympics is a summer event, with Doctor Who having become an autumn event. And, nothing can be more national than the London Olympics, when talking about the Olympics. (I don't have much information about the Euros.)

2012 is probably a bad example to cite, as it was very close to being a "gap year" itself. Only five episodes plus Christmas special, which up until now was the second shortest amount of Doctor Who for the modern era. Maybe BBC does want to do shorter seasons during years of summer Olympics? Coincidently, if they do keep this up they'll end up doing the "break every four years" which RTD said he would have done had he stayed in control of the franchise indefinitely.

.
In sum, I am not believing what BBC 1 is saying. I am thinking that there is another reason to air one special this year and to have a complete series next year.

Well, yeah, there are other reasons which have already been summarised:
Moffat intended to quit after The Husbands of River Song. BBC requested he stay on for another season. But with plans already underway for Sherlock, production of Doctor Who would have to wait until after that wraps, meaning no season for 2016.

 

[Australis]

Being a little out of the loop, can someone posts Gatiss's tweet, abut the behind the scenes stuff? Having trouble finding it.

 

[Starkers]

https://twitter.com/Markgatiss/status/690671880257273856

People are basically inferring what's behind it.

 

[dahj]

Both the singing contest and soccer are annual events. The Olympics occurs every four years.

Euro is every 4 years as well, and it's a kind of a big deal.

 

[DimesDan]

2012 is probably a bad example to cite, as it was very close to being a "gap year" itself. Only five episodes plus Christmas special, which up until now was the second shortest amount of Doctor Who for the modern era. Maybe BBC does want to do shorter seasons during years of summer Olympics? Coincidently, if they do keep this up they'll end up doing the "break every four years" which RTD said he would have done had he stayed in control of the franchise indefinitely.

You should also remember as pure in house BBC Production (even if it is Wales) a lot of production staff were used for the Olympic coverage as we were the host nation and thus the BBC provided the cameras and other infrastructure and programmes such as Doctor Who and Top Gear suffered in 2012.

Euro is every 4 years as well, and it's a kind of a big deal.

That's somewhat debateable.

 

[Mr Awe]

It's the 2016 UEFA (Union of European Football Associations) European Championship. Kind of a smaller World Cup just for the European nations. It takes place from June 10 to July 10, and then you have the Rio Olympics in August. Trying to counter-program Doctor Who -- or anything else -- against those events would be risky at best.

The press release is hog wash to cover up their earlier fuck ups. If it was truly a matter of the Euros and Olympics, you simply schedule DW after the Olympics are over. The fact is the BBC is bad at planning and got in a situation where they're waiting for Moffat to be available for series 10 even though he didn't want to do another series of DW.

Mr Awe

 

[Timewalker]

Meh. Twelve to twenty months is nothing. I once had to wait fifteen years for a full new season of Doctor Who, with just a single movie in the interim.

It's a shame that Paul McGann never got a series. Anyone who can nail the character of the Doctor so perfectly, 17 years apart (the movie/Night of the Doctor webisode), damn well deserves one. Even now, he'd be terrific.

It really sucks, but luckily there is a lot of Classic Who I haven't seen yet to help fill the void.

Including the ones you swore you'd never watch?

It's not like fans haven't had to wait years inbetween seasons before. Which while midly annoying is preferable to cancellation. A longer lead time does perhaps have a few advantages.

Longer to work on scripts esp. if they have to tie into an overall arc.

Having longer to work on scripts is no guarantee of quality. It can also be said that it gives them longer to mess them up.

Please, no more convoluted season-long plots that require a flowchart to figure out. And if Jenna Coleman isn't working at the time they film this next season, DO NOT BRING HER BACK FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER.

Let the new companion(s) be as un-Clara-like as possible.

Well, I've got a stack of Classic Who novels I haven't read yet, so those will have to do.

 

[kirk55555]

Including the ones you swore you'd never watch?

The only ones I "swore" about were Tom Baker's serials after The Androids of Tara. I've broken that 3 times. The first time was for City of Death, which I only watched because people raved about it but I learned what a truly bad Tom Baker serial looked like by watching it (and I thought I'd already seen that with The Androids of Tara, which was, I had thought, as low as the Tom Baker era could go). Then, I watched The Keeper of Traken, but I watched it for Anthony Ainley's debut so I'd say it doesn't quite count. Then, I watched Logopolis because I wanted to see Baker's regeneration. So, the only Tom Baker serials I need to see are:

102 The Power of Kroll
103 The Armageddon Factor
104 Destiny of the Daleks
106 The Creature from the Pit
107 Nightmare of Eden
108 The Horns of Nimon
108a Shada
109 The Leisure Hive
110 Meglos
111 Full Circle
112 State of Decay
113 Warrior's Gate

Based on how much I hate The City of Death, and how mediocre The Keeper of Traken was, I think I can resist watching these. Besides, I got a lot of other stuff to keep me busy. Here are the serials I need to see from the other Doctors (keep in mind that I've seen every 6th and 7th Doctor story) (I spoilered the list for size)

Spoiler: large list size

-First Doctor--
004 Marco Polo
005 The Key of Marinus
007 The Sensorites
008 The Reign of Terror
009 Planet of the Giants
011 The Rescue
012 The Romans
013 The Web Planet
014 The Crusade
015 The Space Museum
016 The Chase
017 The Time Meddler
018 Galaxy 4
019 Mission to the Unknown
020 The Myth Makers
021 The Dalek's Master Plan
022 The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve
023 The Ark
025 The Gunfighters
026 The Savages
027 The War Machines
028 The Smugglers


--Second Doctor--
031 The Highlanders
032 The Underwater Menace
033 The Moonbase
034 The Macra Terror
035 The Faceless Ones
036 The Evil of the Daleks
039 The Ice Warriors
040 the Enemy of the World
042 Fury from the Deep
043 The Wheel in Space
044 The Dominators
046 The Invasion
047 The Krotons
048 The Seeds of Death
049 The Space Pirates
050 The War Games

--Third Doctor--
063 The Mutants
064 The Time Monster
066 Carnival of Monsters
067 Frontier in Space
068 Planet of the Daleks
069 The Green Death
071 Invasion of the Dinosaurs
072 Death to the Daleks
073 The Monster of Peladon
074 Planet of Spiders


--Fifth Doctor--
117 Four to Doomsday
118 Kinda
119 The Visitation
120 Black Orchid
122 Time Flight
123 Arc of Infinity
124 Snakedance
125 Mawdryn Undead
126 Terminus
127 Enlightenment
131 The Awakening
132 Frontios
133 Resurrection of the Daleks
134 Planet of Fire

So yeah, I have plenty of Classic Who to keep me busy without having to watch any more of the self destruction of the Tom Baker era.

 

[Timewalker]

The only ones I "swore" about were Tom Baker's serials after The Androids of Tara. I've broken that 3 times. The first time was for City of Death, which I only watched because people raved about it but I learned what a truly bad Tom Baker serial looked like by watching it (and I thought I'd already seen that with The Androids of Tara, which was, I had thought, as low as the Tom Baker era could go). Then, I watched The Keeper of Traken, but I watched it for Anthony Ainley's debut so I'd say it doesn't quite count. Then, I watched Logopolis because I wanted to see Baker's regeneration. So, the only Tom Baker serials I need to see are:

102 The Power of Kroll
103 The Armageddon Factor
104 Destiny of the Daleks
106 The Creature from the Pit
107 Nightmare of Eden
108 The Horns of Nimon
108a Shada
109 The Leisure Hive
110 Meglos
111 Full Circle
112 State of Decay
113 Warrior's Gate

Based on how much I hate The City of Death, and how mediocre The Keeper of Traken was, I think I can resist watching these. Besides, I got a lot of other stuff to keep me busy. Here are the serials I need to see from the other Doctors (keep in mind that I've seen every 6th and 7th Doctor story) (I spoilered the list for size)

Spoiler: large list size

-First Doctor--
004 Marco Polo
005 The Key of Marinus
007 The Sensorites
008 The Reign of Terror
009 Planet of the Giants
011 The Rescue
012 The Romans
013 The Web Planet
014 The Crusade
015 The Space Museum
016 The Chase
017 The Time Meddler
018 Galaxy 4
019 Mission to the Unknown
020 The Myth Makers
021 The Dalek's Master Plan
022 The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve
023 The Ark
025 The Gunfighters
026 The Savages
027 The War Machines
028 The Smugglers


--Second Doctor--
031 The Highlanders
032 The Underwater Menace
033 The Moonbase
034 The Macra Terror
035 The Faceless Ones
036 The Evil of the Daleks
039 The Ice Warriors
040 the Enemy of the World
042 Fury from the Deep
043 The Wheel in Space
044 The Dominators
046 The Invasion
047 The Krotons
048 The Seeds of Death
049 The Space Pirates
050 The War Games

--Third Doctor--
063 The Mutants
064 The Time Monster
066 Carnival of Monsters
067 Frontier in Space
068 Planet of the Daleks
069 The Green Death
071 Invasion of the Dinosaurs
072 Death to the Daleks
073 The Monster of Peladon
074 Planet of Spiders


--Fifth Doctor--
117 Four to Doomsday
118 Kinda
119 The Visitation
120 Black Orchid
122 Time Flight
123 Arc of Infinity
124 Snakedance
125 Mawdryn Undead
126 Terminus
127 Enlightenment
131 The Awakening
132 Frontios
133 Resurrection of the Daleks
134 Planet of Fire

So yeah, I have plenty of Classic Who to keep me busy without having to watch any more of the self destruction of the Tom Baker era.

Hm. Some of those Tom Baker ones are definitely skippable. The Power of Kroll is the worst offender, and is pretty much a waste of time (no pun intended; this story is awful). But you're still skipping some pretty decent ones. About the only thing I can think of that most of them have in common (besides Tom Baker) is that except for The Power of Kroll, Lalla Ward is in the rest of them. Is it that you don't like Lalla Ward/Romana II?

BTW, Jacqueline Hill, who played Barbara, is a guest star in Meglos (she plays some sort of high priestess).

 

[kirk55555]

Hm. Some of those Tom Baker ones are definitely skippable. The Power of Kroll is the worst offender, and is pretty much a waste of time (no pun intended; this story is awful). But you're still skipping some pretty decent ones. About the only thing I can think of that most of them have in common (besides Tom Baker) is that except for The Power of Kroll, Lalla Ward is in the rest of them. Is it that you don't like Lalla Ward/Romana II?

I don't have any real experience with Romana II. I liked Romana I, but I couldn't stand The Key to Time after the atrocious The Androids of Tara. For Romana II, I only saw part of The City of Death. I loathed what I saw of that BBC Travel show disguised as a Doctor Who episode, but it wasn't Romana II's fault. The problem was the idiot writer/producer/etc who decided to film Tom Baker's vacation to Paris but forgot to write a real plot into the "story". its just endless, pointless walking scenes along with Romana acting like she has the brain power of Dodo because earth is just so confusing for a Timelord. So in that regard, I have a low opinion of Romana II, but its not what kept me away from the remaining Tom Baker.

Basically, its the steep dive off a cliff the writing quality took, along with my experience with the insultingly bad City of Death and my complete lack of desire to watch JNT ruin Tom Baker completely that keeps me from watching those remaining Tom Baker episodes. Maybe when I've watched every other remaining Classic Doctor Who story, I'll be able to stomach the horribleness of the late era Tom Baker stories. As it is, as far as I'm concerned the good portion of Tom Baker's era ended after The Pirate Planet, and the rest of the garbage can wait until last, if ever.

 

[mythme]

State of Decay is definitely watchable; a leftover from 1977 and written by Terrence Dicks