Foreshadowing of Jacob Vs The Nemesis.

[Hober Mallow]

As far as the debate about whether or not it was really Jacob or Smokey in disguise who talked to Hurley, I'm convinced it must have actually been Jacob. It seemed important for Jacob to get that ankh with the list inside it to the Others. If it were really Smokey, I think he would have said, "You still got that guitar case?" "Yes" "Good. Take it and throw in the ocean. Then get Sayid to the temple."

So I think it was Jacob, and Jacob has a reason for wanting Sayid to be in the position he's in now. Jacob foresaw everything to this point, I'm sure it's all part of his plan.

 

[propita]

What if Jacob hadn't wanted Sayid to die, then come back, but just not die at all?

Of course, if the water not being clear WAS due to Jacob's death--and Jacob knew that--then Jacob would also have known that the water wouldn't work right. And if MiB knew the same, then it could've been MiB masquerading as Jacob with the specific intent that Sayid be put in the non-clear water.

Damn thing's like poker--whether you have great cards or you're bluffing, you're taking the same action.

 

[biotech]

Of interest to me is that Jacob visited most of the other people long before the crash, yet visited Hurley and Syied after they got home.

 

[propita]

Of interest to me is that Jacob visited most of the other people long before the crash, yet visited Hurley and Syied after they got home.

Was it Jacob that visited them?

If, as some say, the MiB told Hurley to take Sayid to the temple, then likely it was the MiB that gave Hurley the guitar case in the first place. Unless it was all Jacob.

 

[biotech]

If the MIB could get off the island, why would he still want to leave now?

 

[Hober Mallow]

If the MIB could get off the island, why would he still want to leave now?

Agreed. I believe it was Jacob who visited Hurley in a taxi, gave him a guitar case, and since that is the case (no pun intended), it must have been Jacob who visited Hurley on the island, told him to take Sayid and the guitar case to the Others at the temple.

I'd hate to be a newbie to the series looking for spoilers trying to make sense of what I just wrote.

 

[Ryan8bit]

If the MIB could get off the island, why would he still want to leave now?

Well, he said he wanted to go home, which could imply a different planet, time, or plane of reality. It might not necessarily be that he can't leave the island, although it's still probable that he can't.

 

[Lindley]

My money's on time. Ever since they introduced time travel, I've figured the smoke monster was some sort of nanotech entity from the future.

 

[Ryan8bit]

I dunno, I thought the producers said it wasn't nanotechnology.

To me it seems more a case of mysticism. There won't be any scientific answers, just magic. Otherwise what would stop an incredibly smart nanotechnology incorporated being from killing Jacob?

 

[Lindley]

Rules. Or, more specifically, programming.

I'd be curious to see where that was said, though.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Try here: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Nanotechnology

Also, that'd be some crazy programming for it to have a desire to kill, but being unable to directly do it.

 

[Mallet]

Well if the MIB is also GhostChristian, which seems likely, then he can get off the Island, since GhostChristian appeared to Jack off island.

What's interesting is that if the MIB, is also the Smoke Monster & the Ghost People, then when he "judges" people, he might be killing the innocent ones and letting the evil people go.

For example, when Yemi/Smokie judged Eko we all assumed it killed him because Eko wouldn't ask for forgiveness. But... If Smokie/Yemi are the MIB and evil, then maybe it killed Eko, because Eko was at peace with what he had done in his life and what he was now doing. Eko had become a good guy and maybe the MIB realized that not only could he not use or corrupt Eko, but that Eko might end up being a threat to him later on, so it killed him.

I mean if the MIB is evil, and he is Smokie, and Smokie judges people, then maybe it kills off the good ones, or the ones it can't use. This is also why it might have let Ben live & why it let all of the Widmore's Mercenaries live.

 

[Lindley]

Hmm....having an enemy on the island who can take the form of pretty much anyone would go a long way to explaining why the Others are so aggressive towards outsiders.

 

[Mallet]

Hmm....having an enemy on the island who can take the form of pretty much anyone would go a long way to explaining why the Others are so aggressive towards outsiders.

But then... Now I am remembering the flashback of young Ben when he sees his "mother" and it is by following his "mother" he runs into Richard. Richard seems to think that the fact that Ben can see his "Mother" a good thing, and it seems to be what makes Richard accept young Ben and say that if he wants to join the Others he will have to be patient.

So, if only the MIB can create "Ghosts" and Richard and the Others are against the MIB, then why would Young Ben seeing the ghost of his mother be a good thing for Ben & why would that be a reason they would allow Ben to join them?

I can see it if both Jacob and the MIB can create "Ghosts" of dead people and the MIB tricked Young Ben & Richard into thinking that Jacob had sent the "ghost" to bring them together and get Young Ben accepted into the Others as part of a long time plot... But if Jacob can't make "ghosts" then it is weird that Ben seeing them and following them would be something that the Others would be cool with.

 

[RoJoHen]

It's things like that that make me really believe that there is another force at work. I am not convinced that Christian and MIB are one in the same.

 

[Hober Mallow]

But then... Now I am remembering the flashback of young Ben when he sees his "mother" and it is by following his "mother" he runs into Richard. Richard seems to think that the fact that Ben can see his "Mother" a good thing, and it seems to be what makes Richard accept young Ben and say that if he wants to join the Others he will have to be patient.

It wasn't just Ben seeing his mother that interested Richard, it was the fact that she died off the island that seemed to interest Richard the most. In the commentary for the episode, "Man Behind the Curtain," Lindelof says to take particular note of that fact.

 

[Mallet]

It wasn't just Ben seeing his mother that interested Richard, it was the fact that she died off the island that seemed to interest Richard the most. In the commentary for the episode, "Man Behind the Curtain," Lindelof says to take particular note of that fact.

Interesting...

have there been any other "ghosts" we've seen of people who died off island? I guess Christian died off island, but his body was brought to the island. Same with Locke. He died off island, but his body was brought back. Yemi died off island, but his body ended up there. Jacob died on island, but then his body disappeared.

Ben's mom died off island, but her body was never brought to the island.

All of the "ghosts" Hurley see's have died on the island (except Dave, who was never alive to begin with).

Miles can talk to dead people, both on and off the island.

Locke, Shannon & Sayid all saw "ghost" Walt, but he's still alive.

GhostChristian has appeared both on and off the island (and back in time).

The Ghost's Hurley sees have been while he was off the island all off island (right?), but all of people who died on the island (Charlie, Eko, Ana Lucia) except for Ghost(?)Jacob who he saw on island (and Dave, who might have just been in Hurley's mind).

Is there some pattern here?

If we assume that Christian, Yemi and NotLocke are all created by the MIB, then it seems he can only "create/use" the bodies of people who died off island, but who's bodies were brought to the island.

If all the ghosts Hurley sees are created by Jacob, it appears that Jacob can only create/use ghosts of people who died on the island.

Not sure if that is correct, or what it might mean.

 

[biotech]

If Jacob and MIB has similar powers, it could also mean they can both become smokey.

 

[Ryan8bit]

I'm guessing they don't have similar powers considering that Jacob was killed with a knife, and that Smokey is impervious to bullets. If Jacob could turn into smoke or anything else, then stabbing him wouldn't do much good.

 

[biotech]

Kind of depends what the knife was made of doesn't it?

When you consider who had it to start with.