"Forbidden Planet" as TOS prequel?

[Warped9]

It's too bad we can't get around all that legal junk, to create a really rich sci-fi adventure universe.

Ummm... if you want to create a rich sci-fi adventure universe, you create one. I.e. invent something new. Nothing's stopping anyone from doing that.

And new projects spring from just such instances where someone ponders, "Hmm, that was fascinating, but what if you took this and that and took a different approach and did this?"

 

[Nerys Myk]

It struck me as interesting because there's been a 'Forbidden Planet and TOS - same continuity!' thread on the TOS forum every few years foras long as I can remember (previous incarnations featured more ENT-bashing and less discussion of Marliyn Monroe, so this is an improvement).

This is the first I've read about someone speculating that FP was a prequel to TOS (although I'm new here so you can take that into account). Nevertheless, although I agree with Christopher that FP is it's own animal, I think that TOS Purist's "thought experiment" is just that - a fun "what-if" moment in that he's not downright exclaiming that it is in fact a TOS prequel, just what people think of the idea.

So, in the spirit of fun, I also think it would have made a good TOS prequel, with the following caveats:

1. You'd have to eliminate ENTERPRISE from the equation (which many people don't seem to have a problem doing ), and

2. You'd have to either ignore FP's opening history of manned spaceflight, or ignore TOS's history of manned spaceflight it establishes later in the series. And TNG's. And DS9's. And VOYAGER's.

Anyway, all the hallmarks of early TOS are there. A united planetary organization; similar tech, weapons, uniforms, sets; and of course the triad of the commander, first officer and doctor. Heck, it even takes place in the same century. Not to mention that it's a damn fine movie.

All you do is put FP before Enterprise. That's what I did. Even had J.J. Adams as a friend of Henry Archer.

Having done so, I can tell you its not as easy a fit as it seems.

 

[Dukhat]

All you do is put FP before Enterprise. That's what I did. Even had J.J. Adams as a friend of Henry Archer.

Having done so, I can tell you its not as easy a fit as it seems.

Chronologically though, that wouldn't work. Enterprise takes place in the 22nd century, while FP takes place in the early 23rd. Plus the fact that Enterprise establishes that warp drive is Earth ships' primary means of propulsion, while in FP it is hyperdrive. Which is why the C-57D doesn't have nacelles

Nope, it all comes back to that awesome Jose Tyler and his well-known throwaway line, "We've broken the time barrier! Why, our new ships can..." and then gets cut off before we can bask in the wonder of that completed sentence. Obviously he was referring to the fact that crewmembers on the Enterprise now don't have to go through all the rigmarole that the C-57D crew had to endure with hyperdrive, thanks to those two new shiny tubes with the red blinky lights in front.

 

[Nerys Myk]

All you do is put FP before Enterprise. That's what I did. Even had J.J. Adams as a friend of Henry Archer.

Having done so, I can tell you its not as easy a fit as it seems.

Chronologically though, that wouldn't work. Enterprise takes place in the 22nd century, while FP takes place in the early 23rd. Plus the fact that Enterprise establishes that warp drive is Earth ships' primary means of propulsion, while in FP it is hyperdrive. Which is why the C-57D doesn't have nacelles

Nope, it all comes back to that awesome Jose Tyler and his well-known throwaway line, "We've broken the time barrier! Why, our new ships can..." and then gets cut off before we can bask in the wonder of that completed sentence. Obviously he was referring to the fact that crewmembers on the Enterprise now don't have to go through all the rigmarole that the C-57D crew had to endure with hyperdrive, thanks to those two new shiny tubes with the red blinky lights in front.

Thats why is doesn't fit, you have to trim,cut and patch on both ends.

 

[Dukhat]

Thats why is doesn't fit, you have to trim,cut and patch on both ends.

I'm not in disagreement with you. But trimming, cutting, and patching is half the fun.

 

[larryman]

I would have liked to have seen flying saucers and robots in ST:TOS. And I would have liked to have seen up-graded sequel voyages of the FP C-57-D. But both are military-oriented. What I'd like most would be to see (or read) is a 'civilian' story series about a ship that is of the same class as the ill-fated Bellerophon, and on a similar mission.

Let's designate the (never seen) Bellerophon's ship 'class' as named: Metaluna. And let's name another ship of that same class as: Pegasus. We know the Bellerophon carried 16 members, but lets stretch that to about 30 members (and a few Robby robots) on the Pegasus. Now send the Pegasus off to colonize another planet. But while all crew members are frozen in stasis tubes for the long voyage, the ship encounters a short-lived wormhole (of no return) - and becomes lost in space. Maybe in our universe, or maybe in another universe. On board the ship are several families and scientist - at least one woman is psychic-sensitive and pagan-oriented. They find a planet with breathable air and plentiful oceans and jungles. And like Earth of 70-million years ago, it is filled with dinosaurs. But unlike Earth, it has two moons. Some of the crew are scuba-diving marine biologist, some are spelunkers, and some are mountain-climbing survivalist. They use LIS-style Chariot vehicles and jet packs to explore the planet, and find: "Earth 2" Terrian creatures, "Land of the Lost" power crystals, living mythical creatures, under-ground and under-sea remains of an ancient super-advanced civilization, and (occasionally) spirits of the ancient ones.

Thus, a spooky and occasionally terrifying Lost In Space-style (without Dr. Smith!) 'civilian' spin-off from the Forbidden Planet universe. Remember that the Bellerophon mission was a civilian 'lost in space' mission, before the C-57-D was sent to investigate what happened to it.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

All you do is put FP before Enterprise. That's what I did. Even had J.J. Adams as a friend of Henry Archer.

Having done so, I can tell you its not as easy a fit as it seems.

Chronologically though, that wouldn't work. Enterprise takes place in the 22nd century, while FP takes place in the early 23rd. Plus the fact that Enterprise establishes that warp drive is Earth ships' primary means of propulsion, while in FP it is hyperdrive. Which is why the C-57D doesn't have nacelles

Nope, it all comes back to that awesome Jose Tyler and his well-known throwaway line, "We've broken the time barrier! Why, our new ships can..." and then gets cut off before we can bask in the wonder of that completed sentence. Obviously he was referring to the fact that crewmembers on the Enterprise now don't have to go through all the rigmarole that the C-57D crew had to endure with hyperdrive, thanks to those two new shiny tubes with the red blinky lights in front.

Interesting. The hyperdrive energy conversion that the crew goes through could be the precursor to the transporter.

 

[Captain Robert April]

It was certainly a visual inspiration to Roddenberry.

 

[Indysolo]

In "Requiem for Methuselah" an episode that is inspired in many ways by Forbidden Planet, an actual Forbidden Planet sound effect can be heard twice. It occurs in the beginning when the M-4 robot first appears and later in the episode as well.

Neil

 

[Hober Mallow]

Chronologically though, that wouldn't work. Enterprise takes place in the 22nd century, while FP takes place in the early 23rd.

But according "Space Seed," Star Trek takes place in the 22nd Century. Might FP actually be a a Star Trek sequel?

Runs out of thread...

 

[Dukhat]

But according "Space Seed," Star Trek takes place in the 22nd Century.

Yeah dude, but we all know that that ain't true.

And for the record, here's the totally official full sentence Jose Tyler was supposed to say: "We've broken the time barrier! Why, our new ships can travel faster than the old hyperdrive engines, and we don't have to convert ourselves to light. Now we use that technology to transport to a planet's surface instead. And we've also made progress in robotics to the extent that in a hundred years androids will be part of our crews and look just like us, instead of robots that have legs that look like sex toys!"

But the 1960's censors cut those lines out.

 

[larryman]

Khan's 'sleeper ship' was another avoided opertunity to introduce prior hyperspace flying saucer technology. The SS Botany Bay could have been an advancement from the LIS Jupiter-2 flying saucer - which also held crew in life suspension. Instead... they went all the way back in technology to a nuclear-powered rocket ship concept. The FP Bellerophon should also be an advancement from the LIS Jupiter-2 flying saucer (as another saucer 'sleeper ship') - if it is ever shown.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

But according to "Space Seed," Star Trek takes place in the 22nd Century.

True.

Heck, if folks can reconfigure the TOS Enterprise to be 1067 or 1080 feet long - or the Abrams Enterprise to be twice that size - anything can be fudged on the basis of canonical statements in TOS.

 

[Timo]

Fudging the timing based on "Space Seed" canon is a no-brainer. Khan asks "How long?" and Kirk tells him he slept for two centuries. Which would be true if Khan went to bed in 1996 and awoke in 2268 or thereabouts, but traveled at an appreciable fraction of lightspeed between those dates.

And while we witness Starfleet technology proceed in a certain fashion during the centuries that are documented in the Trek shows, we don't have to assume that civilian technology would proceed in like manner. The Bellerophon wasn't a perfect match for a Starfleet vessel anyway, so we could just as well decide she's from some other UFP organization of the time - one with technologies somewhat more distant from the cutting edge. A police organization, perhaps, as they were basically paying a visit to a perp who was to be hauled back from his affairs kicking and screaming if need be. And the good old C-57D doesn't look all that different from the police ship we find in TAS "Slaver Weapon"...

(Really, 23 pages? What's keeping this thread going? I thought the subject matter was milked dry a year ago!)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[larryman]

^ The subject of the "Forbidden Planet" universe keeps it going as far as I'm concerned. That's how I recently found this thread... I did a search here for "Forbidden Planet". I can go on forever on Forbidden Planet. It's my favorite Star Trek.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's that time again:

STAR TREK 0: THE FORBIDDEN PLANET

 

[larryman]

^ That is a cool picture. I saved a copy of it earlier. It does express the FP-ST:TOS association well. But it has a flaw... Spock is obviously alien (pointed ears). No aliens were known in the FP sci-fi universe, until encountering the extinct Krell. Prior to that, the FP universe was humans only. I like the concept that we humans were exploring and colonizing distant star systems 'before' encountering a living alien society.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Fudging the timing based on "Space Seed" canon is a no-brainer.

It doesn't have to be fudged.

Star Trek took place in the 22nd century that week.

The week of "The Squire Of Gothos" it took place sometime in the 26th or 27th centuries.

 

[Nerys Myk]

^ That is a cool picture. I saved a copy of it earlier. It does express the FP-ST:TOS association well. But it has a flaw... Spock is obviously alien (pointed ears). No aliens were known in the FP sci-fi universe, until encountering the extinct Krell. Prior to that, the FP universe was humans only. I like the concept that we humans were exploring and colonizing distant star systems 'before' encountering a living alien society.

Rice picker accident in China. Tragic.

 

[larryman]

^ That is a cool picture. I saved a copy of it earlier. It does express the FP-ST:TOS association well. But it has a flaw... Spock is obviously alien (pointed ears). No aliens were known in the FP sci-fi universe, until encountering the extinct Krell. Prior to that, the FP universe was humans only. I like the concept that we humans were exploring and colonizing distant star systems 'before' encountering a living alien society.

Rice picker accident in China. Tragic.

Ok, we'll go with that.