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Focusing on the Lower Ranks.

In a modern format with 10-12 eps at a time over a 5 year ark, it'd be hard to convince me you'd run out of content.

But you may run out of people actually interested in it. For me, and me alone, the concept of lower decks simply isn't interesting. I'm more interested in the characters that have the authority to pull the trigger on General Order 24 or take the starship across the Neutral Zone. I think many people feel the same way. That's why captains are always in the thick of what is going on instead of doing what real captains do, administrative work. The West Wing was suppose to focus on the support staff of the President but that quickly fell away.
 
The West Wing was suppose to focus on the support staff of the President but that quickly fell away.

And why is that, do you think?
Martin Sheen


Not just him.

The real focus of West Wing was mainly supposed to be Rob Lowe's character, but most of the other characters were more compelling, That's why Rob was gone halfway through its run.

The episode lower decks was a gimmick. It is not a series. It would fail because even in peacetime situations nobody gives a damn what Transporter repairman third class Dexter McStuffins does during his day, and they sure as hell don't want to see it replayed every week.


Ironic quote considering the actual episode had a young bajoran being part of a starfleet intelligence mission.

But what are we talking about, pffft putting a young officer in a position where there in an intense degree of danger, with a high possibility of being killed is an absolutely horrid idea, especially if it's all for some irrelevant mission for intergalactic intel. :vulcan::cardie:

Oh and the whole idea of an attractive strong willed female putting herself in a form of simulated abuse to help what was essentially her nazi overloads absolute drivel. Absolutely no room for layered themes or commentary there.

I'm sure if ideas like this were expanded on, critics adults, etc would hate it.

Even worst is upon her supposed death, would be those pesky juniors being emotionally conflicted about there promotions.

I give in what we need more of is kinder trek.

If you sacrificed a Mary Sue or Harry Stu like Seetol Jaxa every week, then yeah, it would get boring real quick. Even if you balanced in slice of life stuff, people would lose interest.

But again, in those situations the detectives are not "lower decks." Lower decks is cadets fresh out of the academy, and even the academy show with Shat in it didn't focus on them.
When I said lower ranks I specifically meant to include senior non coms and the like. On top of that not even the officers need to be juniors. Depending on your interpretations of what a starfleet vessel may be like, it's implied there should be a higher number mid level officers not ever setting foot on the bridge.

Which would still be a problem, especially if your Chief Petty Officer Paddy Paderndern's job is to sit in the Computer Core and make sure LCARS is backed up properly. Nobody will care.

The absence of depth itself is what I was talking about addressing. Believe what you want, rodenberry believed in the idea that a large portion of the ship were officers or at the very least talented and well trained individuals.
He was a bomber pilot in WWII. In the US military air forces and air wings and air crews are all top-heavy with officers. He was going with what he knew. He made some mistakes in creating trek, but that wasn't one of them.

Using some drunk logic(4am at a bar) one can easily assume there should be a large number of specialists on board.
I don't drink, so I'll go with common sense, which says you take aboard the number of specialists you need, not what number you assume you should have.

There's more to the argument than just "the bridge is where the action is." The bridge is usually where the Command Staff is. That is key, because when the Romulan decloaks (or the peace talks break down, or the cosmic storm is bearing down on the ship) you want to pay attention to the reaction of the people with the immediate authority to do something about it.
This is essentially a trope rather than a fact of reality. Examining this trope gravitates to a rather large and relate-able theme. Everyone wants to climb to the top.
It's a trope that's incredibly useful for telling stories in a naval setting, which despite the sci-fi trappings star Trek has always been. The ambition of the characters (and/or of the audience) has no bearing on its usefulness.


Anyways there are lots of times when the reverse is true, by the time command finds out it's already too late to make a decision.
Only when the crisis is internal and localized (and trivial, if nobody's in a hurry to tell the captain...)

Using drunk logic there are plenty of times when anyone can be selected at random to do their duty. This is the core value of the idea. What if your menial job has importance for just one day, a month or one year of your life.
Telling that story once would be fine. Telling the menial job crisis story every week for a season would suck.

By simply wanting a more real(not scientifically accurate, but more inline with what your average persons sees in their day to day life) a plethora of plots and ideas can be introduced to the star trek universe to give it new life.

. It's obviously a mix of real life, and escape. However that ratio to me does not start at 0 percent and 100 percent, which it seems to do for many on here.
And for the network people who would have to greenlight the series. Try selling them on a 50-50 ratio Trek series.


Lower decks people have to go through lots of levels of bureaucracy to get heard by the decision-makers - unless they're Mary Sues (or let's call a spade a spade, Wesley Crushers). Also, lower decks people don't get information as immediately as the command staff. In a real crisis they might know jack about what's going on, and if they're your show's focus, your audience will be just as in the dark. Your audience will not stand for being in the dark week after week unless there's a dead body involved and Dick Wolf is producing the show.

It's just as often the reverse is true. The people in the thick of things have a way better understanding of what is actually going on. Often the leaders are the ones in the dark taking advice and intel from those on the ground. There are so many examples of this in real life, yet the trek verse completely ignores this fact.
Because again, aboard ship, this is only true if the crisis is internal. A show with no external conflict would be boring. The Klingons exist because they figured that out in the 1960's

Even in TMP kirk fixates on how he feels he's on the sidelines.
And he went out of his way get back on the field. as the quarterback. In like the first ten minutes of the movie. And did we follow Galley Technician Polly Purebread after he came aboard? No.

Of course there are interpretations on what scale one becomes on the sidelines. However in this concept it happens at the bridge(not admiralcy).

Again further dissecting this excessive trope in trek.
And again, flying in the face of its incredible usefulness across scores of stories in fandoms of all stripes.

The popularity and drama of that one episode is not sustainable on a regular basis. Eventually, just to save the series, you're going to have to make one of your lower deckers a bridge officer, thus defeating your purpose.
Define sustainable.

Having well over 600 episodes of a franchise with the same formula on repeat again and again for 30 years to me seemed like it wasn't sustainable. In fact basic logic would imply I may be right.
But the mere existence of those episodes would immediately prove you wrong, and they exist because that formula, for the most part, works. By contrast, there only a few episodes out of the six hundred that focus on Starfleet's kids. If your concept is so sustainable, where's the Academy spin-off series? Where's all the Lower Decks tie-in books?


If star trek comes back it hopefully will adapt to the times of modern television.

DS9 is the only show that was well suited for this modern dynamic and it was 15 years ahead of it's time.(way to many filler eps)


In a modern format with 10-12 eps at a time over a 5 year ark, it'd be hard to convince me you'd run out of content.
But if the bulk of that content is a day in the life of Ensign Pulver, replicator and morale officer, it wouldn't matter, cause you'd get cancelled anyway.
 
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Lower decks is cadets fresh out of the academy
When I said lower ranks I specifically meant to include senior non coms and the like.
This was my understanding of the OP. Personnel below the quarter deck, i.e. the vast majority of the officers and crew aboard the ship.

Yeah the thing is I don't think they get it at all. This isn't just taking the old franchise and focusing on one section.

It'd be able rexaming star trek and putting in that extra demention that is often missing in the series.

If you think entire crew are just a bunch of uninteresting techs doing menial tasks, I don't think you have much of a creative view of a ship.

As much as you want to believe these ships are not navy ships.

EDIT: Honestly I feel like this form is often split down the middle, half of us actually wanna explore something different with trek, while the other half pine over them mustache twirling excutives who won't fund a continuation of the 5 year mission.

TOS style will never work with modern tv audiences.

The franchise has a machine is the core of the problem.
 
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I don't know if its the obvious choice, but its a better choice than the usual fall of the Federation/Dark Trek proposals that tend to pop up.

I don't see the focus in "lower ranks" as having that big an impact on a lot of story choices. Many existing stories could easily reworked to feature "not the bridge crew". Especially landing party stories.
 
When I said lower ranks I specifically meant to include senior non coms and the like.
This was my understanding of the OP. Personnel below the quarter deck, i.e. the vast majority of the officers and crew aboard the ship.

Yeah the thing is I don't think they get it at all. This isn't just taking the old franchise and focusing on one section.

It'd be able rexaming star trek and putting in that extra demention that is often missing in the series.

If you think entire crew are just a bunch of uninteresting techs doing menial tasks, I don't think you have much of a creative view of a ship.

As much as you want to believe these ships are not navy ships.

EDIT: Honestly I feel like this form is often split down the middle, half of us actually wanna explore something different with trek, while the other half pine over them mustache twirling excutives who won't fund a continuation of the 5 year mission.

TOS style will never work with modern tv audiences.

The franchise has a machine is the core of the problem.

I have no problem exploring something new. I just have no heard a concept of the lower ranks that would make for sustainable entertainment. Would I watch it? Sure, but I'm one person who has unusual entertainment taste ;)

As for the lower ranks, having written several enlisted rates for various Star Trek RPGs, the hardest part is giving them something to do.

Admiral2 probably has the most salient points in that there has not been demonstrated to be enough meat to this concept to sustain a series. If the away team is going where all the action is, then you kind of have a rehash of SG-1 where the CO gives the command, and the team goes.

As a brief aside, SG-1 would do episodes focused on Walter (the gate dialer) and Sieler (the chief engineer) as well as various scientists that worked for the SGC. The problem is, those are one or two occasional episodes.

Don't take this personal, but I have yet to see a meaty concept that would really sustain a series. It's interesting in concept, but difficult in execution.
 
If the away team is going where all the action is, then you kind of have a rehash of SG-1 where the CO gives the command, and the team goes.

As a brief aside, SG-1 would do episodes focused on Walter (the gate dialer) and Sieler (the chief engineer) as well as various scientists that worked for the SGC. The problem is, those are one or two occasional episodes.

Don't take this personal, but I have yet to see a meaty concept that would really sustain a series. It's interesting in concept, but difficult in execution.
Well it would be close to stargate in some respects, but again it would depend much on the episode.

Keep in mind also that in the star gate universe it made sense that Oneil was a colonel as they were one of only a handful of teams.

In the star trek Away teams are one function of a ship.

Ironically the worst flaw of stargate was trying to adapt star trek elements, like galactic space navies and the like.
 
If the away team is going where all the action is, then you kind of have a rehash of SG-1 where the CO gives the command, and the team goes.

As a brief aside, SG-1 would do episodes focused on Walter (the gate dialer) and Sieler (the chief engineer) as well as various scientists that worked for the SGC. The problem is, those are one or two occasional episodes.

Don't take this personal, but I have yet to see a meaty concept that would really sustain a series. It's interesting in concept, but difficult in execution.
Well it would be close to stargate in some respects, but again it would depend much on the episode.

Keep in mind also that in the star gate universe it made sense that Oneil was a colonel as they were one of only a handful of teams.

In the star trek Away teams are one function of a ship.

Ironically the worst flaw of stargate was trying to adapt star trek elements, like galactic space navies and the like.

I would disagree with that. I think SG-1 started to suffer when it insisted on keeping O'Neill and company past their prime, and not allowing Ben Browder to start a new show, and introduce the new threats. The Ori space battles were rather remarkable, in terms of story development, in my opinion.

The problem with making a specific away team for away missions is that Trek has already established that the captain gets sent, or the first officer is sent. Now, in my opinion, this makes little sense, but when you are running a TV show, you want to follow the leads to the action, and the leads are either on the bridge or on the planet, and in either case, they are were the action is happening.

It isn't a problem of concept more as a matter of execution, and working with a current audience that honestly wants to be where the action is. If there is action on the bridge, the difficult part is given a reason that our main characters are not there.

As a quick example, it makes little sense to send the senior command staff of a ship to go on dangerous missions, but that is part of Star Trek and kind of expected. If it is to be changed, then, as I have stated, there needs to be a solid concept, characters, and storyline to carry it forward.
 
The problem with making a specific away team for away missions is that Trek has already established that the captain gets sent, or the first officer is sent. Now, in my opinion, this makes little sense, but when you are running a TV show, you want to follow the leads to the action, and the leads are either on the bridge or on the planet, and in either case, they are were the action is happening
That could be Captain's prerogative. Sure Archer,Kirk and Picard were hands on, but Esteban wasn't.

It isn't a problem of concept more as a matter of execution, and working with a current audience that honestly wants to be where the action is. If there is action on the bridge, the difficult part is given a reason that our main characters are not there.
You don't write bridge plots if the show is about away teams
 
I would disagree with that. I think SG-1 started to suffer when it insisted on keeping O'Neill and company past their prime, and not allowing Ben Browder to start a new show, and introduce the new threats. The Ori space battles were rather remarkable, in terms of story development, in my opinion.

The problem with making a specific away team for away missions is that Trek has already established that the captain gets sent, or the first officer is sent. Now, in my opinion, this makes little sense, but when you are running a TV show, you want to follow the leads to the action, and the leads are either on the bridge or on the planet, and in either case, they are were the action is happening.

It isn't a problem of concept more as a matter of execution, and working with a current audience that honestly wants to be where the action is. If there is action on the bridge, the difficult part is given a reason that our main characters are not there.

As a quick example, it makes little sense to send the senior command staff of a ship to go on dangerous missions, but that is part of Star Trek and kind of expected. If it is to be changed, then, as I have stated, there needs to be a solid concept, characters, and storyline to carry it forward.
SG-1 got horrible after season 5 imo.

As far as the captain getting sent down, this is where I think the forumla has been over done.

It worked for kirk because he was the maverick, however in the later series it just isn't needed.

A captain should be more of a politician like picard who must always act as a reflection of position.

This in a very simple reason why I prefer a jjunior/mid level perspective..


A young leutenant having disregard for protocol makes far more sense than someone who has been given command of a ship.

IF a new series is to be introduced reworking the old forumla is a must, not only due to forumalic franchise burnout.

To be credible to a modern audience these are the kind of details that must change.

To be excessively pulpy in a time when people are more educated, socially aware and open to more sophisticated story telling is insane.
 
The problem with making a specific away team for away missions is that Trek has already established that the captain gets sent, or the first officer is sent. Now, in my opinion, this makes little sense, but when you are running a TV show, you want to follow the leads to the action, and the leads are either on the bridge or on the planet, and in either case, they are were the action is happening
That could be Captain's prerogative. Sure Archer,Kirk and Picard were hands on, but Esteban wasn't.

It isn't a problem of concept more as a matter of execution, and working with a current audience that honestly wants to be where the action is. If there is action on the bridge, the difficult part is given a reason that our main characters are not there.
You don't write bridge plots if the show is about away teams

This is true. I just am not sure if there is enough plots there to write about the lower ranks without diving in to repetition, or mundane tasks.

SG-1 got horrible after season 5 imo.

Not to parse this apart, but it is a separate thought, so there. SG-1 season 6 is one of my favorite seasons, with 7 close on its heels.

I think, once b to the role and they established the villains, it was great. It just could have been a whole other show, and probably had more life to it.

As far as the captain getting sent down, this is where I think the forumla has been over done.

It worked for kirk because he was the maverick, however in the later series it just isn't needed.

A captain should be more of a politician like picard who must always act as a reflection of position.

This in a very simple reason why I prefer a jjunior/mid level perspective..


A young leutenant having disregard for protocol makes far more sense than someone who has been given command of a ship.

Ok, another pause. I'll agree that the formula has worn out it's welcome. However, I'm not confident that this mid-level perspective is 100% the way to go on TV.

As for the whole idea of a young lieutenant disregard protocol versus a seasoned commander, I actually buy that more, but that's because TOs (especially) feels more Age of Sail naval captains, who have more latitude in their decision making.

Later on, in TNG, we do see Picard in the role of diplomat, and Riker as the action hero. That works for me (for the most part-YMMV).

I see the point, but I don't see the viability.


IF a new series is to be introduced reworking the old forumla is a must, not only due to forumalic franchise burnout.

To be credible to a modern audience these are the kind of details that must change.

To be excessively pulpy in a time when people are more educated, socially aware and open to more sophisticated story telling is insane.

Reworking the old formula is fine, or discarding it, which 09 tried to do. If I were to look for a dynamic that could work, it would be J*A*G where the commanding officer is giving orders, but the protagonists are out in the field, doing the job. So, I see that working, but I just wonder it would be sustainable. Again, we go back to sustainability in this media market.

Also, utilizing elements of Trek that are part of the formula does not make it pulpy if the characters are done more realistically.

As I have stated, and hope to be clear, I don't have a problem with the idea, on the surface. I'm struggling with making it a sustainable and profitable concept.
 
I just am not sure if there is enough plots there to write about the lower ranks without diving in to repetition, or mundane tasks.
It would depend on how many different things the away team can reasonable do and still be credible with the concept. Some missions would be exploration, or an investigation of some sort, or a military intervention, or interaction with natives, or assisting in a planetary disaster, or a search and rescue.

If they can be sent to a planet, could a dedicated away team do non away team activities.

Would it follow that they would be the ones to board a alien vessel?

Or provide an off ship prisoner escort.

Or body guard a diplomat.

Some episodes could center more on character development with the mission (if there is one in that episode) more in the background.

Pretty much the only thing the team would not be involved with is ship to ship combat. Now if the ship is a lightly armed scout, would it be so unusual that it would not be sent into "space combat" situations?

I mean, not every ship in Starfleet is going to be a heavily armed combatant.
 
I just am not sure if there is enough plots there to write about the lower ranks without diving in to repetition, or mundane tasks.
It would depend on how many different things the away team can reasonable do and still be credible with the concept. Some missions would be exploration, or an investigation of some sort, or a military intervention, or interaction with natives, or assisting in a planetary disaster, or a search and rescue.

If they can be sent to a planet, could a dedicated away team do non away team activities.

Would it follow that they would be the ones to board a alien vessel?

Or provide an off ship prisoner escort.

Or body guard a diplomat.

Some episodes could center more on character development with the mission (if there is one in that episode) more in the background.

Pretty much the only thing the team would not be involved with is ship to ship combat. Now if the ship is a lightly armed scout, would it be so unusual that it would not be sent into "space combat" situations?

I mean, not every ship in Starfleet is going to be a heavily armed combatant.
hehe I like the last bit there. Ship to ship combat would not be the norm, but there could definitely be some sort of bomber class spacecraft.

Which would be a bit more realistic in some respects.
 
I just am not sure if there is enough plots there to write about the lower ranks without diving in to repetition, or mundane tasks.
It would depend on how many different things the away team can reasonable do and still be credible with the concept. Some missions would be exploration, or an investigation of some sort, or a military intervention, or interaction with natives, or assisting in a planetary disaster, or a search and rescue.

If they can be sent to a planet, could a dedicated away team do non away team activities.

Would it follow that they would be the ones to board a alien vessel?

Or provide an off ship prisoner escort.

Or body guard a diplomat.

Some episodes could center more on character development with the mission (if there is one in that episode) more in the background.

Pretty much the only thing the team would not be involved with is ship to ship combat. Now if the ship is a lightly armed scout, would it be so unusual that it would not be sent into "space combat" situations?

I mean, not every ship in Starfleet is going to be a heavily armed combatant.

All completely fair points, and ones that could inform this concept even more. This is why I keep referencing back to JAG, because it really strikes me as a similar format in the show, following a junior officer, Lt. Rabb, going out to ships and investigating, or dealing with problems that arise.

If the team is multifaceted, as you are suggesting, then them encountering different situations makes sense. However, I think showing the CO establishing what the situation is, and then sending the team out, I think would provide a connection between what the command level staff is doing (i.e. what was more common in Trek before) and the lower ranking officers (i.e. our main cast).

Also, as a quick aside, I know I keep referencing JAG without giving proper references as to what it was. It was an American TV show about a naval officer who investigated situations of a legal nature. He started out as a Lieutenant, often going out in to the field, or working with front line officers and units, or those in the States on bases. Lots of travel, in other words. The dynamic was good in that the interaction was between the main male lead (Lt. Rabb) and his partner (a Navy Lt first and then a Marine Major) as well as a junior officer (Lt. JG) and the various enlisted supporting personnel. The dynamic was quite good, as each one had particular strengths and skills. A similar dynamic can be seen in NCIS (same producer).

Sorry for the long ramble. I just realized I'm pointing out an example that some posters might not have a reference for...
 
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