Flight After Oil?

[Tombfyre]

I was thinking the other day... has anyone read or seen anything on what we plan to do when oil starts running really thin....

- cars > replacement technologies
- trains > replacement technologies
- ships > replacement technologies
- aircraft :| .... what is there? You have to get air moving over a wing somehow.... so it has to be pushed or pulled through the air. What other techs REALISTICALLY could power an aircraft to the same standard we have today.

I was pondering this... and i couldn't think of anything... other than say.. hydrogen or something... dunno... *shrug*

 

[Bill Morris]

For trains, electricity. For the rest, hydrogen extracted with electricity generated by solar thermal (with trough mirrors and turbines), wind, and nuclear, possibly fusion.

There seems to be a lot going on with solar thermal now, like the $2 billion plant under construction in the Mojave desert, but that output and electricity from wind will be going to the power grids first, and electricity for hydrogen might have to wait until there is more capacity.

 

[JustAFriend]

Dont forget synthetic fuels.

Toward the end of WWII, Germany ran on mostly synthetics and gas made from coal.

And you can always distill alcohol (biofuel).

It's not like we're going to wake up and have NO fuel left....

 

[farmkid]

As long as we are producing garbage, we can produce oil through thermal depolymerization. This is a technology that basically recapitulates what happens underground, except it does it in a few hours. The input is any organic material and the output is crude oil, natural gas, water, and minerals. A fairly recent advance has made the process efficient enough to be profitable. A prototype commerical-sized plant is now in operation next to a Butterball turkey factory somewhere in the midwest (Ohio maybe? I forget) and it seems to be going well. The US produces enough garbage and sewage to completely supply the oil needs, so if we start driving electric cars, then thermal depolymerization will provide more than enough oil to fly our planes.

 

[flux_29]

Electro-magnetics: like the matrix hovercrafts.

 

[Tombfyre]

do you think aviation in its current form will suffer? What kinds of other fuels work in a Jet engine.

 

[zephramc]

do you think aviation in its current form will suffer? What kinds of other fuels work in a Jet engine.

JP-8 is very similar to diesel. I'd suspect that a jet engine could burn bio-diesel fairly easily.

 

[GalaxyX]

^^^They have already tested a plane with biofuels successfully.

The biggest problem is not that fuels will run out, it's that in the next 20-30 years the whole planet is going to groan with pain at the forced paradigm shift starting to happen now.

Already Corn has tripled in price. That's a staple food for 3rd world countries. Now a ton of people are going to starve to death.

Here in North America a ton have already been swallowed by the debt machine (the mortgage foreclosures as one example) and best is yet to come.

 

[CorporalClegg]

What about Ion thrusters?

I know their intended application is space flight, but one of their biggest drawbacks is their limited thrust ratio.

However, if they were converted to work on aircraft, there might be a much more realistic and practical application. I know there are current attempts at making them work better in an atmosphere.

 

[Verteron]

I was pondering this... and i couldn't think of anything... other than say.. hydrogen or something... dunno... *shrug*

In a hydrogen economy, fuel cells would seem to be the obvious solution. We'd need to reduce their weight and increase their power, though, but work is being done in this field...

Alternatively, Nuclear Aircraft!

 

[JustAFriend]

Almost forgot (and I should have remembered this since I fly electric R/C planes):

ELECTRIC AIRPLANE

We don't need no stinkin fuel....

 

[anais]

I think biofuel will be the first step away from pure Jet-A.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

do you think aviation in its current form will suffer? What kinds of other fuels work in a Jet engine.

With regards the note on Germany's development of man made fuels, I read that it linked nicely with their new jet engines, which were capable of running on a wider range of fuels than piston engined aircraft.

 

[TransporterBeam]

Does Canada or America have any oil deposits ? What about South America ?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Trans-Oceanic International monorails?

No seriously, I cant see any problem as oil runs out, so long as you have something to power those engines you're going to fly so i'd say in the future they will be powered by biofuels and then later via hydrogen.

 

[farmkid]

There was a thread here a while ago about a new aircraft concept which used a hydrogen fueled engine. The plane should be able to maintain a speed of about mach 5, as I remember. Maybe this is the answer to jet fuel shortages.

 

[TerriO]

Alternatively, Nuclear Aircraft!

Minor problem with that notion. What happens if one crashes, as planes are sometimes wont to do?

 

[anais]

Alternatively, Nuclear Aircraft!

Minor problem with that notion. What happens if one crashes, as planes are sometimes wont to do?

I hope it was another facet of the cold war, that the planes were showcases of Soviet grandeur and never meant to fly.

 

[MANT!]

In regards to General aviation, short term solve is diesel /automotive gasoline..but additives will be required for those aircraft that started out on Avgas.. Turbine flight won't be an issue, turbines can burn just about any type of fuel when properly designed..
eventually hydrogen will be the primary aviation fuel...

 

[Trekker4747]

Alternatively, Nuclear Aircraft!

Minor problem with that notion. What happens if one crashes, as planes are sometimes wont to do?

Nuclear devices aren't like bombs where if you drop them they go off. It's a reaction that must take place. If you drop a nuclear device you simply pick it back up.