Fleet Admiral Cartwright was right

[willg]

The problem is that Star Trek VI is very ambiguous about the Federation's relationship with the Romulans given the presence of Nanclus at the briefing for Operation: Retrieve. The Next Generation had already established the fact that the Romulans had isolated themselves, returned and once again exist in a Cold War (for lack of a better term) with the Federation, and I don't know if the Tomed Incident had been introduced yet. It is true that you had the Gorn, Tholians, etc, but that couldn't have been on the top of the writers' minds at the time. Until we know what sort of relationship the writers intended the Federation and Romulans to have at the time it will continue to complicate the interpretation of Cartwright's line to Smillie.

The C&C may have intended to say: "I'm sure our scientific and exploration programs would be unaffected, but our defense programs will be scaled back in order to compensate for the diminished Klingon threat." Cartwright and Kirk dismiss this out of hand because they don't trust the Klingons to maintain any sort of treaty with the Federation.

 

[Marsden]

^ That's a good point, but again I think it goes back to my economy/production ability or mobilization question.

If the economics of the future dictate that it isn't that hard to field x amount of ships, I don't really see why anything would need to be cut back. It's confusing without more parameters of discussion.

And I'm sure it's not like today's Guns vs. Butter discussions, but that's what it seems to be based on.

 

[willg]

I would say that strictly from a economic perspective that you would be correct, however wouldn't there also be political forces at play? I can picture some Federation members arguing that because the Klingon Empire is no longer hostile that the defense arm of Starfleet does not need as much attention.

 

[Wingsley]

Theoretically. But Wolf 359 puts paid to the idea that Starfleet was in any sense ''battle ready'', and Starfleet suffered considerably during the Dominion War. One does get the impression that Kirk's Starfleet was much more ready to face such large scale threats, because they were in a constant state of 'Cold War' tension with the Klingons. Take that away and, yes, nobody is suggesting they turn into the Good Ship Enterprise. But there's definitely a shift in priorities. And it makes some sense that shift came about due to a lack of a long-term enemy...

... of course, ALL OF THIS fails to factor into account the retcon that Starfleet was in the middle of a protracted war with the Cardassians right throughout TNG's early period.

I would say "Q Who", like "The Tholian Web" and other TOS outings before it, underscored that you can't take for granted that you will always be adequately prepared for threats and or unknown and incomprehensible hazards in uncharted space.

Consider these two passages from "Q Who":

Q: My purpose is to join you.

RIKER: To join us as what?

Q: As a member of the crew. Willing and able. Ready to serve. This ship is already home for the indigent, the unwanted, the unworthy. Why not for a homeless entity.

RIKER: Homeless?

Q: Yes.

RIKER: The other members of the Q continuum kicked you out?

GUINAN: Not all the Q are alike. Some are almost respectable.

PICARD: Ready and willing. Able to serve. What would you do? Would you start as an ordinary crewman? What task is too menial for an entity?

Q: Sir, do you mock me?

PICARD: Not at all. That's the last thing I would do. You, by definition, are part of our charter. Our mission is to go forth to seek out new and different life forms, and you certainly qualify as one of the most unique I've ever encountered. To learn about you is, frankly, provocative. But you're next of kin to chaos.

Q: Captain, at least allow me to present my argument.

PICARD: Worf?

(Worf goes to stand guard outside)

Q: After our last encounter, I was asked to leave the Q Continuum. Since then, I've been wandering vaguely, bored really, my existence without purpose. Then I remembered all the good times I had with you.

RIKER: The good times? The first time we met you, you put us on trial for the crimes of humanity.

Q: Of which you were exonerated.

RIKER: The next time we saw you, you asked me to join the Q Continuum.

Q: A big mistake that you did not accept my offer. More and more I realise that here, here is where I want to be. Think of the advantages. Now, I neither expect nor require any special treatment. And if necessary, although I can't imagine why, I will renounce my powers and become as weak and incompetent as all of you.

PICARD: No.

Q: No? Oh, Captain, in fairness, let me try, I deserve at least that much.

RIKER: In fairness? You disrupt this ship, you kidnap the Captain?

Q: I add a little excitement, a little spice to your lives, and all you do is complain. Where's your adventurous spirit, your imagination. Think, Picard, think. Think of the possibilities.

PICARD: Simply speaking, we don't trust you.

Q: Oh. Well, you may not trust me, but you do need me. You're not prepared for what awaits you.

PICARD: How can we be prepared for that which we do not know? But I do know that we are ready to encounter it.

Q: Really?

PICARD: Yes. Absolutely. That's why we're out here.

Q: Oh, the arrogance! They don't have a clue as to what's out here.

GUINAN: But they will learn, adapt. That is their greatest advantage.

Q: They're moving faster than expected, further than they should.

PICARD: By whose calculations?

Q: You judge yourselves against the pitiful adversaries you have encountered so far. The Romulans, the Klingons. They are nothing compared to what's waiting. Picard, you are about to move into areas of the galaxy containing wonders more incredible than you can possibly imagine, and terrors to freeze your soul! I offer myself as guide only to be rejected out of hand.

RIKER: We'll just have to do the best we can without you.

Q: What justifies that smugness?

PICARD: Not smugness, not arrogance. But we are resolute, we are determined, and your help is not required.

Q: We'll just have to see how ready you are.

GUINAN: Q!

(The Enterprise is thrown through space at even more incredible speed than usual)

PICARD: Bridge, this is the Captain. All stop.

WESLEY [OC]: Answering all stop, sir.

PICARD: Status?

[Bridge]

DATA: According to these coordinates, we have travelled seven thousand light years...

[Ten Forward]

DATA [OC]: ...And are located near the system J25.

RIKER: Travel time to the nearest starbase?

DATA [OC]: At maximum warp, in two years, seven months, three days, eighteen hours we would reach Starbase one eight five.

RIKER: Why?

Q: Why? Why, to give you a taste of your future, a preview of things to come. Con permiso, Capitan. The hall is rented, the orchestra engaged. It's now time to see if you can dance.

(Q vanishes)

PICARD: Guinan, your people have been in this part of the galaxy?

GUINAN: Yes.

RIKER: What can you tell us?

GUINAN: Only that if I were you, I'd start back now.

Q: Where's your stubbornness now, Picard, your arrogance? Do you still profess to be prepared for what awaits you?

WORF: The Borg ship is re-establishing its tractor beam.

RIKER: Lock on photon torpedoes.

WORF: Yes, sir.

DATA: Without our shields, at this range there is a high degree of probability that a photon detonation could destroy the Enterprise.

RIKER: Prepare to fire.

(Q swaps places with Data)

Q: I'll be leaving now. You thought you could handle it, so handle it.

PICARD: Q. End this.

Q: Moi? What makes you think I am either inclined or capable to terminate this encounter?

PICARD: If we all die, here, now, you will not be able to gloat. You wanted to frighten us? We're frightened. You wanted to show us that we were inadequate? For the moment, I grant that. You wanted me to say I need you? I need you!

(With a snap of Q's fingers, the Enterprise goes whirling through space again)

RIKER: Position.

WESLEY: Zero seven zero, mark six three, sir. Back where we started.

(Q swaps places with Riker)

Q: That was a difficult admission. Another man would have been humiliated to say those words. Another man would have rather died than ask for help.

PICARD: I understand what you've done here, Q, but I think the lesson could have been learned without the loss of eighteen members of my crew.

Q: If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross, but it's not for the timid.

(Q vanishes and everyone is back in his own seat)

The whole point of both "The Tholian Web" and "Q Who" was that, even if you have the best starships of your day, fully equipped and armed and staffed with the best personnel, the ships' crews are still only mere mortals. There are limits to science and technology, and many things remain unknown. Our heroes will not always know how to cope with what awaits them in deep space.

The crews of the Earth Outposts along the Romulan Neutral Zone (and the Romulans outposts as well) were attacked by the Borg and nobody on either side knew what happened or what to do about it. (TNG: "The Neutral Zone")

Again, STAR TREK is not strictly a Cold War analogy. Its stories (especially TNG's "The Defector") often underscore the futility of military escalation.

STAR TREK VI: THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY was an entertaining movie with a clear objective: to wind-down the TOS/TMP sub-franchise and pave the way for the ascending TNG to take over in the next movie. Praxis as an allegory to Chernobyl was an interesting plot-line, though not well executed. (A small, exploding moon could doom the entire Klingon Empire? All because of flawed mining practices? Really?)

TUC, like VOYAGER, was an allegorical flight of fancy. Paramount spent millions of dollars to make a feature film that was, at its heart, just an overblown episode of TOS; only 1991 was a long ways from 1969. Audiences that bought those theater tickets deserved better. This story was entertaining, but obviously half-baked.

SPOCK: There's an old Vulcan proverb. 'Only Nixon could go to China.'

That line right there should've made it clear that the specifics of this movie were not to be taken seriously. Harve Bennett and Nick Meyer produced an entertaining movie that accomplished its goal: the end of the Cold War with the Klingons, paving the way for TNG.

If you want to nit-pick everything that's said and done in a movie like that, consider that Cartwright was involved in a loose conspiracy to instigate a continued conflict with the Klingons, and that conspiracy included assassination plots. There was a not-so-subtle allegorical linkage to the Manuel Noriega/Panama attack and the Iran-Contra Affair there.

If you want to talk about the politics and defense and readiness in STAR TREK, you can't overlook what was said (and implied) by "The Tholian Web" and "Q Who".

 

[RogueVasad]

The question is what would happen to the ships assigned to the Klingon Border, would they be scrapped, would they be put into reserve, status, or would they be shifted to other borders, science or exploration missions?

And the answer is we don't know and neither did Cartwright. And actually I'm pretty sure Cartwright was planning the assassination before the briefing because it me it looked like Kirk and Spock went straight from the briefing to Enterprise and the plotters already had their assets assigned to the ship.

 

[AggieJohn]

I do think the concern Cartwright had was some what right. I am not one for bloated Military. They can be as bad as a lack of defenses in that they stifle innovation. The issue from TOS to TNG was the Federation lost its fighting spirit. I feel like Kirk's fleet trained together and would have revisited plans had Kirk been taken captive by the Borg Prior to Wolf 359. Even Riker said that the Federation was for exploration only and not a military organization. But what is the defense of the Federation then? To lose all Military Tradition is dis-concerning. Its not like Kirk was a warlord either. Its about being willing to fight for the freedoms of others. Now Cartwright probably did more harm in that he likely made people suspicious of Military minded leaders in Starfleet.

 

[Tim Walker]

Re: Dominion War

Came across a web site that depicted a refit version of the Federation dreadnaught class. (Which was based on components from the Constitution class). Yes, both the Federation class and the Constitution class were brought out of mothballs.