FlashForward: "The Gift" 11/5 - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Aragorn
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No, a zombie.
That was kind of surprising, but even though well-acted, I wasn't that invested in the character. In fact that's a theme for me, a lack of investment in the characters.
Seems a rather clinical show for some reason.
Maybe it is just me, but I feel closer to Heroes characters, but they never die, so there's no real sorrow or WTF.
Above average though. It is an interesting series.
That was kind of surprising, but even though well-acted, I wasn't that invested in the character. In fact that's a theme for me, a lack of investment in the characters.
Seems a rather clinical show for some reason.
Maybe it is just me, but I feel closer to Heroes characters, but they never die, so there's no real sorrow or WTF.
Above average though. It is an interesting series.
Ok so now that they've firmly (I've previously mentioned things I thought hinted at the future not being set in stone) stated that the flash forward isn't changeable I will say that the book handled this MUCH MUCH BETTER.
In the book shortly after the Flash Forward happened, I can't recall because I deliberately haven't reread the book prior to the show... but let's saw within a day or two there was a big story when a person who other people had seen in their flash forward decided they didn't like what occurred to them in their future so they very publicly committed suicide. Thus showing everyone that the future wasn't set in stone within a day or two of the event happening.
I'm pretty sure that this SHOULD have happened on this show. I'm sure there are many people who had flash forwards they didn't like and because of it became suicidal. We're talking billions of people and it's what a month or two later before someone who had a FF commits suicide?
bullshit.
I think this should have been how the second episode of the series ended. Remember how we heard reports that people had read the newspaper and saw that a prominent politician was being indicted for something?
That's how they should have done this reveal. That politician killing himself and thus showing that the FF future isn't unchangeable. Or if they wanted to be more personal then just had done this storyline earlier on.
But I think the creators wanting us to believe that nobody out of however many billion people are still alive after the FF committed suicide until Al did a month or two after the fact is something which seems completely ridiculous to me and is pissing me off the more I think and type about it.
In the book shortly after the Flash Forward happened, I can't recall because I deliberately haven't reread the book prior to the show... but let's saw within a day or two there was a big story when a person who other people had seen in their flash forward decided they didn't like what occurred to them in their future so they very publicly committed suicide. Thus showing everyone that the future wasn't set in stone within a day or two of the event happening.
I'm pretty sure that this SHOULD have happened on this show. I'm sure there are many people who had flash forwards they didn't like and because of it became suicidal. We're talking billions of people and it's what a month or two later before someone who had a FF commits suicide?
bullshit.
I think this should have been how the second episode of the series ended. Remember how we heard reports that people had read the newspaper and saw that a prominent politician was being indicted for something?
That's how they should have done this reveal. That politician killing himself and thus showing that the FF future isn't unchangeable. Or if they wanted to be more personal then just had done this storyline earlier on.
But I think the creators wanting us to believe that nobody out of however many billion people are still alive after the FF committed suicide until Al did a month or two after the fact is something which seems completely ridiculous to me and is pissing me off the more I think and type about it.
This is going to be nitpicky, but... the guy who committed suicide was in London in his flashforward, right? That's where he got the call that "Celia" died.
It seems kind of weird to me that he would almost kill somebody (I'm assuming it was a car accident or something similar) and then immediately be allowed to leave the country. The only way this would make sense is if Celia lived in London, but we saw her car and it had the steering wheel on the left.
I'm gonna say his particular flashforward was retconned a little bit.
It seems kind of weird to me that he would almost kill somebody (I'm assuming it was a car accident or something similar) and then immediately be allowed to leave the country. The only way this would make sense is if Celia lived in London, but we saw her car and it had the steering wheel on the left.
I'm gonna say his particular flashforward was retconned a little bit.
I don't think the accident (or whatever) happened shortly before April 29th. The phone call said, that they "finally took her off life support", which would imply that she had been on life support for weeks or possibly months.
I'm surprised no one has brought up the wtf moment of the episode: Some GI comes out of nowhere and hands Aaron his daughter's pocketknife which gives him hope, then tells him this story about how her daughter was all post-flying mokney scarecrow aftewr th attack which finally compels him to move on, and out of the blue his daughter is at home in one piece. Who's screwing around with him and why? And is it part of the so-called "experiment"? Is the experiment really about the aftermath of the blackouts and not the blackouts themselves? Did whoever caused it know that it was going to cause some survivors to see the future or not?
With the snorefest that is Heroes and the suicide enabler that was BSG and Lost a world away, it's nice to kick back and theorise about a show like we used to do before we became snooty, cynical Comic Book Guy clones. I'm diggin' this show so far. If you don't, then go try to find your sense of wonder and soul.
With the snorefest that is Heroes and the suicide enabler that was BSG and Lost a world away, it's nice to kick back and theorise about a show like we used to do before we became snooty, cynical Comic Book Guy clones. I'm diggin' this show so far. If you don't, then go try to find your sense of wonder and soul.
Poor.
Wow, I think they just totally screwed up this show.
I've been watching chiefly to see if the writers can be clever enough to have all the "impossible" visions come true, yet in ways that are dimetrically opposed to our preconceptions. Olivia isn't cheating, Demitri isn't murdered, etc.
But that hinges on predestination being the modus operandi. If it isn't, then the world just had some interesting hallucinations that may or may not have anything to with anything. If people liked their visions, they will work to make them come true. If they disliked them, they will work to avoid them.
This is what people do anyway. I can envision likely good and bad scenarios for myself as of next spring and work towards the good ones and away from the bad ones. I've been doing this all my life, and have never considered it particularly science fictional or a good topic for a TV show. It's just boring normal life.
How is this show science fiction anymore? How it is interesting anymore? The characters can't carry the story themselves - they're not remotely strong enough for that. The cause of the flash forward? Meh, who really cares?
And if predestination isn't ruling the roost, it shouldn't have taken the world this long to find out. Very shortly after the flash forward, at least one, and probably thousands, of self-aggrandizing suicidal fools all over the world who had visions would realize they could kill themselves and thereby become world famous. They'd leave a suicide note stating that their suicide demonstrates that everyone is stressing out about predestination for no good reason.
This person would become world famous, probably a day or even hours after the original flash forward. The FBI would have heard of this event, along with everyone else with the mental capacity to understand what predestination means. Those who are too stupid, of course, wouldn't be stressing out in the first place.
I took the fact that nobody mentioned this world-famous predestination-foiling suicidal egomaniac as proof that predestination was, in fact, the modus operandi. And I guess it still could be - if the FBI guy comes back to life!
Yeah, "bullshit" was my reaction to the suicide too. And to the entire episode. They're going to have to do some fancy writing to dig themselves out of this hole. The person committing suicide immediately after the flash forward didn't even need to be upset by their vision. There are thousands of people who would kill themselves right now if they thought it would make them world famous.
But if it makes you feel any better, I'm still hanging in there with Heroes out of a misguided sense of loyalty and I've never found Lost anything but wonderful and highly watchable.
Wow, I think they just totally screwed up this show.
I've been watching chiefly to see if the writers can be clever enough to have all the "impossible" visions come true, yet in ways that are dimetrically opposed to our preconceptions. Olivia isn't cheating, Demitri isn't murdered, etc.But that hinges on predestination being the modus operandi. If it isn't, then the world just had some interesting hallucinations that may or may not have anything to with anything. If people liked their visions, they will work to make them come true. If they disliked them, they will work to avoid them.
This is what people do anyway. I can envision likely good and bad scenarios for myself as of next spring and work towards the good ones and away from the bad ones. I've been doing this all my life, and have never considered it particularly science fictional or a good topic for a TV show. It's just boring normal life.
How is this show science fiction anymore? How it is interesting anymore? The characters can't carry the story themselves - they're not remotely strong enough for that. The cause of the flash forward? Meh, who really cares?
And if predestination isn't ruling the roost, it shouldn't have taken the world this long to find out. Very shortly after the flash forward, at least one, and probably thousands, of self-aggrandizing suicidal fools all over the world who had visions would realize they could kill themselves and thereby become world famous. They'd leave a suicide note stating that their suicide demonstrates that everyone is stressing out about predestination for no good reason.
This person would become world famous, probably a day or even hours after the original flash forward. The FBI would have heard of this event, along with everyone else with the mental capacity to understand what predestination means. Those who are too stupid, of course, wouldn't be stressing out in the first place.
I took the fact that nobody mentioned this world-famous predestination-foiling suicidal egomaniac as proof that predestination was, in fact, the modus operandi. And I guess it still could be - if the FBI guy comes back to life!
I deliberately did not read any posts before making my post, wondering whether anyone would think of what I did.
Yeah, "bullshit" was my reaction to the suicide too. And to the entire episode. They're going to have to do some fancy writing to dig themselves out of this hole. The person committing suicide immediately after the flash forward didn't even need to be upset by their vision. There are thousands of people who would kill themselves right now if they thought it would make them world famous.Sorry, my dang brain keeps interfering by bitching about all the obvious bullshit and bad soap opera writing.
But if it makes you feel any better, I'm still hanging in there with Heroes out of a misguided sense of loyalty and I've never found Lost anything but wonderful and highly watchable.
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I thought it was pretty obvious that her vision was that she wasn't being drowned but was being baptized by the minister that she spoke to in "Black Swan". I mean when we saw the few glimpses of the person doing it, it sure as hell looked like the minister and she wasn't doing much in the way of struggling.
Of course, he could be drowning her. And I would support this character's watery death.
Of course, he could be drowning her. And I would support this character's watery death.
As for this episode, glad to see the show do some mind-fucks here for a change. Very interested to see where the whole thing with Aaron's daughter is headed. That's about all I can get worked up for on this show.
Aaron McGuire
..but why can't we be cynical?? That's apart of the fun. For this episode, I voted 'above average'. I was surprised that Al did jump, and so now everything is up in the air like life should be. So there is that mystery. Then the mystery of the missing daughter has gotten more of my attention, before I just felt sorry for the Dad, but now I'm intrigued.
I'm really getting into this show, I just hope that ABC isn't sneaky and cancel it.
Ratings-wise, it's not in good shape.
Last week's excuse was that it went against the World Series but this week the ratings actually declined a tick.
Here's another person who thinks that if the writers wanted to knock out the predestination feature of this story, they should have done it far earlier.
Last week's excuse was that it went against the World Series but this week the ratings actually declined a tick.
2.6 on NBC would be okay, but not on ABC.
Here's another person who thinks that if the writers wanted to knock out the predestination feature of this story, they should have done it far earlier.
I don't recall--did the church belong to a denomination that practices submersion baptism? Held by the throat (not the shoulders?) And I thought such rituals involved just a dunk--she was under a while, most if not all her flashforward (otherwise she would have the context she's missing), which is to say two minutes and change, and, well, pretty sadistic church if their method of induction borders on homicide. She did mention she thought she was being 'punished', though I'm no longer sure if that was in the vision, or by the vision.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
each church is probably different, but when I was baptized (as an adult) in a Baptist church the minister leaned me back on his arm and held me under water for a few seconds to symbolize the death of the "old" me. I haven't seen any baptisms where the minister "held" the baptised one from the front. Seems like it would be rather awkward.
Just caught this episode and I must admit, I actually enjoyed it. Well, if you cut out the wife and daughter parts out of the show. What happened calls into question the very premise of the show, which is pretty awesome for a series that's only 7 or so episodes in.
I liked this past week's episode, but was surprised that they wrote that particular agent's suicide (Al Gough) into storyline. It was sad, but a bit sudden. I figured with Demetri freaking out every week over not having a flashforward, that it would be him to do something crazy like commit suicide.
It was high time they kicked the predestination out of the window. I hate the idea that people don't have free will, so I'm very glad they did.
Except that it wouldn't make them famous, and there is no reason why it should, because it doesn't prove a single frakking thing. We as TV viewers would know that they are telling the truth about having a flashforward - but in universe, how would anyone know that they're telling the truth? As it turns out, even having been seen by another person in a FF doesn't guarantee you had one yourself (as Demetri will tell you). For all we know, they actually did not see anything and figured they'd die anyway, but they told everyone that they did have a flashforward, so they could theatrically commit a suicide, leaving notes that they are doing it to prove that predestination doesn't exist.And if predestination isn't ruling the roost, it shouldn't have taken the world this long to find out. Very shortly after the flash forward, at least one, and probably thousands, of self-aggrandizing suicidal fools all over the world who had visions would realize they could kill themselves and thereby become world famous. They'd leave a suicide note stating that their suicide demonstrates that everyone is stressing out about predestination for no good reason.
This person would become world famous, probably a day or even hours after the original flash forward. The FBI would have heard of this event, along with everyone else with the mental capacity to understand what predestination means. Those who are too stupid, of course, wouldn't be stressing out in the first place.
I took the fact that nobody mentioned this world-famous predestination-foiling suicidal egomaniac as proof that predestination was, in fact, the modus operandi. And I guess it still could be - if the FBI guy comes back to life!
I deliberately did not read any posts before making my post, wondering whether anyone would think of what I did.
No, the last episode showed him talking to a woman with oriental features in a studio during his flashforward. Which, all things considered, is a pretty good thing to look forward to; would have been one sick puppy to not kill himself because he was drowning someone six months from now.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
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