Then what's the problem? Every character in the movie had a 'full frontal' shot in the film by that standard.
Fixing the Films (JJ edition).
- Thread starter Phantom
- Start date
Then what's the problem? Every character in the movie had a 'full frontal' shot in the film by that standard.
No.
Even when the term is abbreviated to "full frontal," the nudity is still implicit.
If Roddenberry had thought he'd get it past the censers I'm sure he would have written that astronauts in the future would have no need for clothes, although I'm not sure where they'd holster their phasers.
With coloured nipple rings to designate rank and department? I think I might have already seen this trek movie in the seventies?
Some interesting replies here. I would love to address all of them, but that would be long 
Suffice to say, there are some fun ideas running here.
I enjoy the movies, overall, but here are my list of notes that I think could help:
Star Trek (2009):
-Slow the pacing down just a little and let all the emotional moments sit for a minute. I love Kirk and Spock Prime's moment in the cave, and Spock and Sarek's moment in the transporter room.
-Keep the section of Kirk and his brother. I think it sets up the crazy ride and crash, and Kirk's arc a little bit better, plus the potential for him having his brother show up at some point in time in a later film.
-Reduce the number of people saved by Kirk Sr. For me, it just makes the Kelvin too big for the time period. It's a minor nitpick, but it still sticks out to me.
-Have Scotty be on one of the other ships that gets destroyed and survivors are beamed aboard. He is in Sickbay while Chief Engineer Olsen leads the away team. Olsen is made first officer under Spock, Kirk second officer as a field commission. When Olsen is killed, the Kirk moves up. Scotty is also tapped to take over in Engineering, and is the one who does the transporter magic to save Kirk and Sulu. Chekov gets introduced by Pike as before, but also has the confab moment of warping in to Titan's moon, giving him and Scotty that time of working together.
-At the end, Kirk offers to help and Nero engages the self-destruct, not allowing his ship to fall in to enemy hands.
-Finally, a montage at the end, of Kirk receiving promotion after promotion and moving him up to ranks until he reports to Pike his readiness to take on command. Pike smiles at him, stands with a cane (indicating passage of time) and tells him, "You want to take on the big one?" Cue to bridge scene.
Not as in depth as others, but my small notes.
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Suffice to say, there are some fun ideas running here.I enjoy the movies, overall, but here are my list of notes that I think could help:
Star Trek (2009):
-Slow the pacing down just a little and let all the emotional moments sit for a minute. I love Kirk and Spock Prime's moment in the cave, and Spock and Sarek's moment in the transporter room.
-Keep the section of Kirk and his brother. I think it sets up the crazy ride and crash, and Kirk's arc a little bit better, plus the potential for him having his brother show up at some point in time in a later film.
-Reduce the number of people saved by Kirk Sr. For me, it just makes the Kelvin too big for the time period. It's a minor nitpick, but it still sticks out to me.
-Have Scotty be on one of the other ships that gets destroyed and survivors are beamed aboard. He is in Sickbay while Chief Engineer Olsen leads the away team. Olsen is made first officer under Spock, Kirk second officer as a field commission. When Olsen is killed, the Kirk moves up. Scotty is also tapped to take over in Engineering, and is the one who does the transporter magic to save Kirk and Sulu. Chekov gets introduced by Pike as before, but also has the confab moment of warping in to Titan's moon, giving him and Scotty that time of working together.
-At the end, Kirk offers to help and Nero engages the self-destruct, not allowing his ship to fall in to enemy hands.
-Finally, a montage at the end, of Kirk receiving promotion after promotion and moving him up to ranks until he reports to Pike his readiness to take on command. Pike smiles at him, stands with a cane (indicating passage of time) and tells him, "You want to take on the big one?" Cue to bridge scene.
Not as in depth as others, but my small notes.
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In regards to the JJA films, for the most part, I wouldn't change a thing. But, if hard-pressed, here are the changes that I would make:
ST'09: I would NOT have promoted Kirk to the big chair. In fact, at the end of the film, I would simply have Kirk win a commendation of merit award, and that's that. He and the crew would go their separate ways, but would have a feeling that they will meet again in the future. I would also have introduced the character "Number One", Dr. Boyce, Janet Colt, Jose Tyler in the mix. Even if any of these characters were killed off during the film, at least we would know that they existed during this time. Vulcan may or may not have been destroyed, but I would have focused more on that, than have a note-for-note repeat of Episode 4 of STAR WARS.
STID: I wouldn't have Kirk lie about what he did on Nibiru, but he would make the case that, after the (near) destruction of Vulcan and Earth, he was not about to let that happen. But while waiting for a hearing on whether or not Kirk was right in what he did, that is when "Khan" would strike. BTW, "Khan" would be Indian, as Noonien Singh, or as Joachim, Noonien's right-hand man, who took Khan's title in order to further Noonien Singh's agenda, only to learn later that Noonien Singh was still alive, but frozen (or the original Khan was murdered by Section 31 after all). The movie would end with Joachim on ice, and the camera would pan to see the stenciled lettering "Singh, Noonien" on a nearby cryo-tube. Oh, and Pike would not be killed in this one.
Alternate Movie: I would have used the plot from the Star Trek RPG/FPS game, which features the Gorn, as the basis for a second film, between ST'09 and STID.
ST'09: I would NOT have promoted Kirk to the big chair. In fact, at the end of the film, I would simply have Kirk win a commendation of merit award, and that's that. He and the crew would go their separate ways, but would have a feeling that they will meet again in the future. I would also have introduced the character "Number One", Dr. Boyce, Janet Colt, Jose Tyler in the mix. Even if any of these characters were killed off during the film, at least we would know that they existed during this time. Vulcan may or may not have been destroyed, but I would have focused more on that, than have a note-for-note repeat of Episode 4 of STAR WARS.
STID: I wouldn't have Kirk lie about what he did on Nibiru, but he would make the case that, after the (near) destruction of Vulcan and Earth, he was not about to let that happen. But while waiting for a hearing on whether or not Kirk was right in what he did, that is when "Khan" would strike. BTW, "Khan" would be Indian, as Noonien Singh, or as Joachim, Noonien's right-hand man, who took Khan's title in order to further Noonien Singh's agenda, only to learn later that Noonien Singh was still alive, but frozen (or the original Khan was murdered by Section 31 after all). The movie would end with Joachim on ice, and the camera would pan to see the stenciled lettering "Singh, Noonien" on a nearby cryo-tube. Oh, and Pike would not be killed in this one.
Alternate Movie: I would have used the plot from the Star Trek RPG/FPS game, which features the Gorn, as the basis for a second film, between ST'09 and STID.
I don't know if I would call this 'fixing' the film, but it's something I would have liked to have seen (though not to the extent that I thought the movie was lacking without it.)
STID- I would have liked some more severe consquences for Spock's breakdown at the end. The entire movie very much had a 'don't act in vengeance' theme, yet it can come across as Spock getting what he wanted because he acted in that way and only stopped because he found something more satisfying to do (rather than realising he was on a slippery slope.)
The counter arguement to that is that he got his arse kicked and nearly permanently killed Kirk by acting that way. I just would have liked a moment where the loss of control was addressed in a 'Yes he's a dick, but trying to rip him apart with your bare hands wasn't a good thing Spock.' I'm not saying that I want him to suffer for his loss of control like Kirk and PrimeKhan did (ie. Die), but maybe have him crack open Khans head and he hesitates in a 'my god, what did I do' moment. Or maybe have Uhura be horrified by how violent it was, or just something where it shows Spock realising he was on the verge of crossing some major lines.
But, I know why that wasn't there. They'd sort of addressed it, and there's not really 'room' for it. I can't imagine it in there without feeling forced or tacked on.
STID- I would have liked some more severe consquences for Spock's breakdown at the end. The entire movie very much had a 'don't act in vengeance' theme, yet it can come across as Spock getting what he wanted because he acted in that way and only stopped because he found something more satisfying to do (rather than realising he was on a slippery slope.)
The counter arguement to that is that he got his arse kicked and nearly permanently killed Kirk by acting that way. I just would have liked a moment where the loss of control was addressed in a 'Yes he's a dick, but trying to rip him apart with your bare hands wasn't a good thing Spock.' I'm not saying that I want him to suffer for his loss of control like Kirk and PrimeKhan did (ie. Die), but maybe have him crack open Khans head and he hesitates in a 'my god, what did I do' moment. Or maybe have Uhura be horrified by how violent it was, or just something where it shows Spock realising he was on the verge of crossing some major lines.
But, I know why that wasn't there. They'd sort of addressed it, and there's not really 'room' for it. I can't imagine it in there without feeling forced or tacked on.
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A
Amaris
Guest
Ditto. That whole scene was spectacular. I will remember it long after other details have faded, and the memory is a very positive one.
+1 x10 ad infinitum..... +1
Did TMP ever give us a reason for Kirk's eeeeeeendless shuttle trip to the Enterprise, other then just for a 'WOW!' shot? Or the same (truncated) trip in TWOK?
It doesn't make much sense in universe - nearly everyone else just transported over, even after the transporter did...something to two of its occupants. It's a giant waste of resources and just dragged the chief engineer off the ship whilst they were preparing to leave.
Stupid Roddenberry and Meyer. Fancy putting a money shot it a movie.
It doesn't make much sense in universe - nearly everyone else just transported over, even after the transporter did...something to two of its occupants. It's a giant waste of resources and just dragged the chief engineer off the ship whilst they were preparing to leave.
Stupid Roddenberry and Meyer. Fancy putting a money shot it a movie.
I always figured it came down to Admiral Kirk wanting it done that way, and no one saying otherwise. I believe David Gerrold's novelization for "Encounter at Farpoint" makes a note of saying Kirk's trip over to the ship in TMP began an unofficial tradition for captains taking command of their new vessels.
The use in TWOK was a practical one - why bother spending more money in the already tiny budget for a new leaving drydock sequence when you can save the cash and time for something else?
First, the transporters on the Enterprise weren't working, when Kirk wanted to board her. Kirk asks why they weren't working, when he arrives at the space station. Scotty says that there's a "wee problem" with the transporters that they're working on, which sets up the dramatic accident to happen shortly. Ergo, Kirk had intended to beam straight to the Enterprise, but the transporters were down.
So, and second, they had to take a travel pod over from the space station. You can tell by the look on Scotty's face that he is giving Kirk a tour of the outside meant simply for the Admiral's pleasure. Scott knows what Kirk loves, and he's giving Kirk—and us—a few minutes of starship porn, prior to settling into crisis mode. Yeah, baby! Afterwards, Kirk thanks Scott for giving him those few minutes of pure pleasure. That's the nature of the knowing exchange between them after the travel pod docks.
So, that's the rationale in TMP's story. Frankly, I think it works fine.
Was there too much of the flyby in the film? Yes, absolutely, they should have trimmed some of the shots, such as when they are flying over the saucer, and between the shuttlebay and lining up for the dock. I don't have references handy at the moment, but I believe that there was an intention to trim it down in some way, but the film had a hard deadline, that prevented various planned edits. I believe that there was also an intention to trim the journey into V'ger's cloud. That couldn't get accomplished, either.
As to why reuse flyby and launch footage in TWOK? The primary reason is no doubt simply that that footage was already paid for, so reusing it in TWOK saved money. So, here, I agree with Firebird.
Damn you and your ability to put together implications and not require spelled out reasons! Don't you know sequences that are conceived to show off productions new toys and forcing Trekkies jizz their pants, are automatically lazy and dumb?
In seriousness - I don't like TMP. But that's more down to the editing than the reasons I think that sequence exists (TWOK's is fine). It doesn't matter why they were originally thought up, just that they work.
In seriousness - I don't like TMP. But that's more down to the editing than the reasons I think that sequence exists (TWOK's is fine). It doesn't matter why they were originally thought up, just that they work.
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The Enterprise leaving Drydock like a tall-ship is an appropriate spectacle for Star Trek. Rising out of the ocean like the Argo in Starblazers is not.
Sure. If you're an eighty year old man.
An 'appropriate spectacle for Star Trek?' What, is the sea water going to traumatise the kids or something?
Fortunately for people who like the scene, it's not up to 'fans' to decide what's appropriate for the franchise. Its lucky for you too - if you go back a bit, there's quiet a few fans who found everything in TMP or TWOK (and TNG, and TVH, and DS9) 'inappropriate for Star Trek.'
We Trek fans are a funny, divided breed.
Fortunately for people who like the scene, it's not up to 'fans' to decide what's appropriate for the franchise. Its lucky for you too - if you go back a bit, there's quiet a few fans who found everything in TMP or TWOK (and TNG, and TVH, and DS9) 'inappropriate for Star Trek.'
We Trek fans are a funny, divided breed.
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