Fix Beyond very simply. Fix 2009 even simpler.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Laura Cynthia Chambers, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Fix Beyond by adding two TOS tropes.

    1) Instead of the Enterprise answering the Altamid distress call, have them be sent out to find out what became of the ship that did - something TOS often wound up doing.

    2) Instead of destroying the Enterprise, have them find said other ship destroyed. While an away team beams/shuttles to the surface to look for survivors (again, something which was done a lot in TOS), the Enterprise winds up in a firefight against the swarm, able to beat them back for a while. Eventually, Enterprise and Franklin (crewed by away team) get together to fight off the swarm and Krall.

    As for 2009?

    It's said in TOS that Kirk taught at the Academy. So, here's Kirk, a few years after grad, unsatisfied, not getting anywhere in his quest to explore space/become a captain, etc. He's a professor teaching kids younger than him that get to live out his dream, the one PIke promised, while he's only been on a couple of shakedown cruises at most. The only satisfaction he gets is an academic rivalry with Spock. So when the Vulcan comes out with his new "no-win scenario" simulation, prof Kirk decides to make a fool out of him.

    When the Nero crisis begins, and it's all hands on deck, Kirk sees his big chance to get out into space and prove he's good for more than grading papers.

    Heck, fix Into Darkness too. Post-Nero, assuming '09 plays out as it actually did (Cadet Kirk) Kirk loses the Enterprise back to a recuperated Pike and finishes his education, then winds up on Enterprise as first officer somehow (maybe PIke's original FO is transferring, or sick).
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I do like this idea, largely because I don't really want Krall to be Edison. I think sending the Enterprise out to investigate the disappearance of another Starfleet ship is a good idea.

    As for 2009, honestly I have a much simpler fix. Have an ending montage of Kirk receiving his commendation for saving Earth, and then go through a highlight reel of other commendations, seeing him receive his promotion at the end, and stepping on to the bridge. Then, all those other adventures could be continued in the comics of how he got to captain.
     
  3. Admiral Archer

    Admiral Archer Captain Captain

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    Love your idea on how to fix "Beyond"! They trashed the Kelvin 1701 WAY too early, and the crew didn't feel like they had earned a brand new 1701-A. It just felt way too rushed.
     
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  4. dupersuper

    dupersuper Commodore Commodore

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    I take it Into Darkness is considered beyond repair?
     
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  5. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    These films need fixing? I like them just fine as they are. The only thing I would "fix" would be to cut Spock's "Khaaaaan!" from Into Darkness. That was awful, and facepalmed me out of a touching alternate universe reverse-Wrath of Khan death scene.
     
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  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I like them too, but I think some small things will take them from good to great, in my view. Krall was always the weakest part of Beyond for me so adjustments there would be welcome.

    ST 09 just needs really small tweaks, but I lay that on the writer's strike.

    I agree with your Into Darkness suggestion. Honestly, I would just have John Harrison be John Harrison. No Khan.
    Into Darkness just needs two small adjustments to make it a great film, in my opinion. So, no.
     
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  7. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

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    the Kelvin films get better to me with each re-viewing. that doesn't always happen for me.
     
  8. Mage

    Mage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't mind it as much as others do, but yeah..... An emotional outburst from Spock I am quite ok with. But the Khaaaaaaan. Bit OTT
     
  9. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

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    Watched STB the other night again and it’s really grown on me. I think it’s the best Kelvin film by a wide margin and deserved a sequel. Pegg really knows how to write for the fans.
     
  10. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    At least Beyond was an original story. Yes, it also used the "disgruntled Human/ex-Starfleet corrupted" trope, as well, but the character himself was new. Trying, at least.
     
  11. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, then at the end after we see him back in the pod, pan over to the one next to him and its a young Ricardo Montelban.
     
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  12. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kirk going through a phase in his life and is hoping to rejuvenate himself. The story had been told before and much better in The Wrath of Khan. The villains seem to always have a personal vendetta with either the system or our heroes; Xerox this over, and over, and over and over and over again. The only things that's remotely original in Beyond is the special effects along with the make up effects.
     
  13. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    For ST-B
    Yes, have a ship lost and they go find it. Have Kirk and company beam down, leaving Sulu maybe Scotty on board, the swarm comes, disables or even still have the steering of the nacelles, but they get the impulse working and they play hide and seek in the asteroid field, having to leave Kirk and Co alone .. Ala TOS.
    Things play out on the surface, find an old broken ship, Villian? Maybe just the swarm itself, robots on the surface, mainframe ala Landru.
    Sulu and Scotty outwit the swarm and destroy it.
    Basically.. Don't destroy the ship give it something to do and beca hero ship that it wasn't in the other movies.
     
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  14. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know that either film needs "fixing," as that implies that something was broken to begin with, and I really like both films. That said, if you are looking for ways to potentially clean them up in hindsight, I think that there are certainly things that could smooth them out.

    For example, many of the suggested improvements for "Beyond" I totally agree with. Change the story slightly so that it has a landing party getting stranded on Altimed without needing to destroy the Enterprise entirely. I think that would have improved my opinion of the fil. I think you could have done some minor tweaks to Krall overall that would have improved him as a character as well.

    For 2009, it would simply be a matter of being a little more realistic with Kirk's role and ascension in the film...maybe doing some time-lapse stuff at the end so it makes more sense that he achieves the captaincy, and then tweaking the intensity of the character slightly.
     
  15. somebuddyX

    somebuddyX Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think 09 works pretty well but there a lot of small details I would change.
    I think Into Darkness is overstuffed but has a lot of neat ideas that don't have room to breathe. I was thinking it would have been cool to have that film stretched to like 6 or eight episodes so you could talk properly about drone strikes, coups, terrorist attacks, false flag operations. Have the Federation talk about how it just got one of it's core planets obliterated by a single ship with a single drop of goo and that's why they've freaked the fuck out. and maybe don't have a crazy Admiral for once. And just stop for a bit to have the characters talk which was always the best part about Trek. My favourite part about ID is just Pike and Kirk talking in that bar.
    I just don't have really any interest in Beyond, beyond the character interactions. A lot of the stuff in that film I wish was in Into Darkness, like Krall having a history with Starfleet and wanting revenge on the Federation I think would have been cool as John Harrison's actual backstory. I think instead of coming back to Earth and having a space battle there at the end of ID it would have been cool to end up on some other location, like some other Federation colony and have had it still be Dubai. Then Beyond could just be out in deep space doing some new mission with some weird sci-fi story or something.
     
  16. Lakenheath 72

    Lakenheath 72 Commodore Commodore

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    I have one fix.


    This sequence felt like it was lifted from a video game. Make it less like a video game.
     
  17. Caretaker

    Caretaker Commodore Premium Member

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    For Into Darkness, I would:
    1. Establish that the changes in history led Starfleet to find the Botany Bay much earlier and that Khan has been working for Section 31 for a long time, at least a decade, and playing the long game.
    2. Use what was show in the Khan comic series: Khan was given cosmetic surgery; used CGI footage of Montalban and show a scene where they give him the Cumberbatch look.
    3. Play more into the Klingon Empire being a threat that Section 31 has lost control of in a way that they haven't since before the Qu'vat incident almost a century earlier.
    4. Have more than Keenser and Scotty with misgivings and not going on the mission. Maybe have their positions temporarily filled with other characters (Gary Mitchell, M'Benga, etc.)
    5. Introduce more background characters like Syl so the deaths at Krall's hands in Beyond have more meaning.
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why?
    Agreed.
    I don't understand this idea and how in the world do you work that in to a movie where the primary villain isn't the Klingons.
    No Mitchell, no M'Benga. You have characters from the last film to bring in to work with.
    Agreed.
     
  19. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Since:

    A) Starfleet had no knowledge whatsoever of Botany Bay's existence prior to being informed by oldSpock subsequent to events depicted in Star Trek (2009) and since
    B) oldSpock's emergence from wormhole was shown as having taken place subsequent to Nero's / Romulans' 2258 escape from Klingon imprisonment, which
    C) predates events depicted in Star Trek Into Darkness by a little less than two years,

    wouldn't establishing Khan as having worked with Sec 31 for ten years or longer be problematic?
     
  20. johnjm22

    johnjm22 Captain Captain

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    I think Beyond would have been more enjoyable if we didn't know the Enterprise was going to get destroyed. They gave it away in the trailers.

    But I do agree it would have been more interesting if the Enterprise was investigating what happened to the Franklin instead. I like a good mystery.

    STID is unsalvageable trash.