Why expect Spock to follow the Command track? I thought he specialized in Sciences and computers?
First Officer Spock?
- Thread starter Bry_Sinclair
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Spock is only a year older than Kirk so if Kirk prime took the test at the academy it seems unlikely, although not impossible, that Spock would have designed the test.
I dislike the notion that Kirk and Spock are so exceptional that they make everyone else look crap. It requires too much suspension of disbelief. I feel they were talented and became exceptional through experience and luck. I disliked intensely the notion that 26 year old Spock was two ranks higher than in TOS, and a first officer, displacing Number One.
Spock didn't take the test because he was a scientist with no desire to be in command. As he acquired more experience, his exceptional mind was recognised as senior officer material and he ended up as captain of a training vessel .
Yes; this is really great thinking. It also explains why important officers like Spock, McCoy, Scott (later promoted to Captain), Sulu (who later got a state-of-the-art ship of his own to command) and Uhura are involved. Sure, Kirk had kind of retired in place and Spock was content to be a "teacher on a training mission," but all of them were legends or at the very least extremely valuable Starfleet officers, and the Enterprise had value too (even if it suddenly got "old" between TMP and TSFS). Using them and the Enterprise to train basic academy cadets makes no sense, really, but it does if your goal is to graduate command-level officers. Thanks, JQ, for neatly resolving one of the basic issues I've had with TWOK for 36 years, despite its status as my second-favorite film of all time.
Now if we could just get to the bottom of that "the Reliant doesn't scan the Ceti Alpha system fundamentally enough to count the planets" issue . . . .
Why, thank you, sir! The Command School idea also helped me simplify Kirk's career track a bit and gave me a better timeline for his relationship with Carol Marcus.
<blush> My pleasure. The only flaw in it, as far as I can see, is that McCoy refers to Kirk taking the KM test as a cadet during the scene in the Genesis Cave. So it probably was the intention of the filmmakers that Saavik was still a cadet herself, but it fits in every other aspect that I can see.
I took a shot at that one here. Basically, I said that Ceti Alpha VI had partially reformed under the planet's gravitational pull, so it looked at first glance, like an intact planet. Reliant probably didn't do an intense scan on it, when they were entering the system.
This theory wasn't as widely accepted.
Unless Kirk was in an AP class, or took it for extra credit before he was supposed to. Or was asked to be part of a focus group testing it for inclusion in the curriculum.
Good point, there is no way something like that could stay secret forever. And they talk about it pretty openly.
Hey!
Some things are just too stupid to bother with.
True. I suppose we could put that down to near-civilian McCoy not being familiar with the Academy and the non-medical side of Starfleet, but that is a bit of a stretch. But, you do the best with what you've got...
Well, he wasn't familiar with the Academy slang term "dunsel" in "The Ultimate Computer," and he wasn't sure if confinement to quarters was sufficient punishment for Spock hijacking the ship in "The Menagerie." The implication from those is that McCoy likely never went to the Academy. I could certainly see McCoy making a mistake like that.
Neither is there mention of Sulu not taking the Kobayashi Maru test. Over the course of the series and moves we learned very little about Sulu.
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Long ago before the internet we had "The Best of Trek" books that collected various opinions and fan theories. We also had Starlog and other magazines. In one of those sources there was an opinion piece that explained Spock had gone through real life Kobayashi Maru situations. The one example was TOS "Gallilio 7."
Spock faced difficult decisions in that episode and even his igniting the fuel was a hail Mary move.
Long ago before the internet we had "The Best of Trek" books that collected various opinions and fan theories. We also had Starlog and other magazines. In one of those sources there was an opinion piece that explained Spock had gone through real life Kobayashi Maru situations. The one example was TOS "Gallilio 7."
Spock faced difficult decisions in that episode and even his igniting the fuel was a hail Mary move.
One of the novels - unsurprisingly, The Kobayashi Maru
- suggested that when Sulu took the test, he did nothing.Meaning, he flat-out refused to cross the Neutral Zone to rescue the freighter, reasoning that it was certainly a trap. Some of the other cadets threaten to mutiny over this, but they are talked out of it.
In my mind that was another test administered at the Academy. (And Kirk saying that Merik took it in his fifth year is another piece of evidence for a Command School. Merik was probably one of the folks who went right into Command School after graduation.)
Ain't that the truth! Supposedly he only got onscreen confirmation that his first name was Hikaru because Peter David was visiting the STVI set that day and suggested they use it.
Military doctors generally don't attend military academies. In fact, for them to do so is downright unusual.
I'm not as up on the maroons as I am on, say, TOS uniforms, but wasn't Saavik's red turtleneck indicating that she was a cadet? And if so, why would she hold the rank of lieutenant (junior grade)? I mean, they called her "Lieutenant" all through the film, and she wore LTJG jewelry, but:
Whoops. Sorry, J.T.B.! You get big credit too. 
True but for such a great movie, it has to be perfect for me, and I need that one solved like you guys helped me with the command school idea. Maybe Mr. Beach was just tired. Some other time!
That's because he wrote the test.
AFAIK that's right. Maybe the red is also used by officers in training, to differentiate them from instructors?
Whoops. Sorry, J.T.B.! You get big credit too.
Thanks but it's really not a new idea. I don't recall if I came up with it on my own, but others certainly did as well, I remember discussing it on Usenet 20+ years ago
Well I wish you luck with that!
Exactly. The dumb test was a plot device for Kirk because he didn't believe in the No Win Scenario... until he actually faced it during the climax of the movie.
Ah, I never discussed Star Trek on Usenet much. I did mostly music and art history on Usenet. I wandered into some Star Wars discussions but didn't enjoy them too much. Actually I did talk about DS9 there, come to think of it, as it was airing while I was in school.
As for TWOK being perfect, well, no good luck needed really. Now that this command school thing has been settled it's down to Mr. Beach's scanning misadventures.
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