First Officer Spock?

[Bry_Sinclair]

In TWOK, Spock said that he'd never taken the Kobayashi Maru test yet before that he served as First Officer of the Enterprise and was later promoted to Captain. Given the importance placed on the test as well as the valuable training that potential command track officers would receive, wouldn't it be a requirement for all those in such a senior position to complete. Even when Troi goes through the bridge officer's test to achieve her promotion she has to face an almost no-win scenario as well, one that could only be solved through sacrificing a crewmember.

 

[alensatemybuick1]

The requirement came later?

Too simple, I know.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Maybe Spock was exempted from certain courses at the Academy, in much the way that super-bright kids skip a grade in school.

Or Kirk was on the Command track at SFA, while Spock majored in Science Officer training.

Or the Kobayashi program was an elective, and Spock was taking a different course to meet his requirements. Like, Spock was taking Basic Brahms: A Survey of the Master's Manuscripts in His Own Hand.

 

[Ronald Held]

Iikely Spock was not on the Command track at Academy,and maybe Pike talked him into it? Maybe Spock help to create it, thus being exempt?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Maybe he really did help devise it in the prime universe as well (and therefore, he would not be a test subject)

 

[Noname Given]

In TWOK, Spock said that he'd never taken the Kobayashi Maru test yet before that he served as First Officer of the Enterprise and was later promoted to Captain. Given the importance placed on the test as well as the valuable training that potential command track officers would receive, wouldn't it be a requirement for all those in such a senior position to complete. Even when Troi goes through the bridge officer's test to achieve her promotion she has to face an almost no-win scenario as well, one that could only be solved through sacrificing a crewmember.

If you assume parity with some aspects of the Kelvin Universe - Spock created the test; so that would be a big reason why he never took it.

 

[Tenacity]

Sulu became Captain of a starship, no mention of him taking the test.

(and yes I know about the novel)

 

[BillJ]

I'd say he never went to Command School. Somehow he jumped tracks mid-career, maybe based on his record as an officer.

 

[BillJ]

If you assume parity with some aspects of the Kelvin Universe - Spock created the test; so that would be a big reason why he never took it.

One of the things I disliked about the Abrams films was how many things they had Spock doing. First Officer of the Enterprise, designer of the Kobayashi Maru, having the pull to change assignments made by the Academy on a whim.

They had him stretched to an unbelievable degree.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Yeah, I'd say Spock likely never took it because he never had any particular ambitions to command and thus never went to Command School. But Spock's exemplary record as an officer forced him up the ladder anyway. (Come to think of it, Spock could be a 23rd century example of the Peter Principle in action!)

But I also think that having Spock never taking it because he's the one who devised it was one of the more clever things that ST09 did. It fits with everything we're shown & told in TWOK, and it even makes certain scenes from it play out in a new light. If Prime Spock also came up with the Kobayashi Maru test in his universe, "Your final solution was, shall we say, unique" now reads more as Spock gently ribbing his old friend. That's the best kind of retroactive continuity.

 

[J.T.B.]

(Come to think of it, Spock could be a 23rd century example of the Peter Principle in action!)

Spock and Kirk both, really!

I'd like to think there is more than one path for things like that in TOS. In TWOK it seemed like the KM was part of a "grad school" command course, since Saavik was already a lieutenant. I would assume Spock took postgraduate training in some scientific discipline, and maybe just didn't have time for the KM course. Later on, as he rose through the ranks, his abilities and experience were enough that he could be given the second-in-command slot, despite his science division background.

 

[Kor]

Somehow this reminds me of an older science fiction story (was it in a short story or a radio program?) which basically had an accountant rise to the most senior position at a nuclear defense facility purely due to his years with the War Department.

Kor

 

[Commishsleer]

When Spock went through the academy the Kobayashi Maru test could have been optional or only given to officers who they thought 'needed' it..
By Saavik's time they may have thought every potential captain needed to do it.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

(Come to think of it, Spock could be a 23rd century example of the Peter Principle in action!)

Spock and Kirk both, really!

Yes, definitely. Kirk was probably competent as an Admiral, but never spectacular. He obviously never had any particular passion for his duties there. I'm sure it was necessary work, but it just wasn't what he wanted to be doing.

When Spock went through the academy the Kobayashi Maru test could have been optional or only given to officers who they thought 'needed' it..

Possible, but it's a bit tough to work out since most ST chronologies have Kirk & Spock as rough contemporaries whose times at the Academy very likely overlapped. (I personally have Spock graduating the year before Kirk started, but that's mainly because I moved Spock's service record back a bit to accommodate assignments besides the Enterprise.)

 

[Phaser Two]

Great explanations. I always wished the line had been "I never liked the Kobayashi Maru test." Sounds a bit unVulcan, but the man was dying.

 

[Mytran]

Does every officer need to take the exact same test? I always assumed that the KM was one of numerous tests that a cadet might have to take, but they won't know which one until the day

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Thinking about it I'd say that every cadet, regardless of their chosen field of study or desired career path, would have to undertake the test. Any one of them could face a no-win scenario someday, though they may not be commanding the ship or leading the mission, they'd have to be trained and prepared for the fact they could be in a situation the only result of which is their untimely death.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Does every officer need to take the exact same test? I always assumed that the KM was one of numerous tests that a cadet might have to take, but they won't know which one until the day

In my mind Starfleet has to have a ton of variations of the basic KM test, with the main common denominator being that it's a no-win scenario. If everyone has to take the exact same test, that seems impractical to me. People are going to talk, and I doubt you could keep the true purpose of the KM test a secret for very long, even with an Academy honor code forbidding them from talking about it.

Thinking about it I'd say that every cadet, regardless of their chosen field of study or desired career path, would have to undertake the test. Any one of them could face a no-win scenario someday, though they may not be commanding the ship or leading the mission, they'd have to be trained and prepared for the fact they could be in a situation the only result of which is their untimely death.

While it's true that command may be unexpectedly thrust upon any Starfleet officer at any time, this seems REALLY impractical to me. Does Starfleet have to gather together a group of senior officers to playact every time any student is taking the Kobayashi Maru? Again, how do you keep that a secret from all the underclassmen? What about the other cadets who aren't acting as Captain, but just manning science or communications? If they're taking the test as the Captain later themselves, how do you possibly surprise them? The cat is already out of the bag.

And Kirk specifically says to Saavik that the no-win scenario is something that every commander may face, not every Starfleet officer. This further strengthens my assumption that what we see in the beginning of TWOK is one of Saavik's final exams at Command School, not her basic Academy training. This also explains why she already has the rank of Lieutenant in TWOK.

SAAVIK: Permission to speak candidly, sir?
KIRK: Granted.
SAAVIK: I don't believe this was a fair test of my command abilities.
KIRK: And why not?
SAAVIK: Because ...there was no way to win.
KIRK: A no-win situation is a possibility every commander may face. Has that never occurred to you?
SAAVIK: No sir. It has not.
KIRK: How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life, wouldn't you say?
SAAVIK: As I indicated, Admiral, that thought had not occurred to me.
KIRK: Well, now you have something new to think about. Carry on.

So yeah, I'm thinking that the KM test is only administered to candidates at Command School.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

If a non-command track officer serves in Starfleet long enough, eventually they'll have to face some kind of no-win scenario in real life anyway. They wind up with their own personal KM IRL. Potential captains need to face it in simulation before they do IRL because they're likely to face it multiple times.

 

[Commishsleer]

If a non-command track officer serves in Starfleet long enough, eventually they'll have to face some kind of no-win scenario in real life anyway. They wind up with their own personal KM IRL. Potential captains need to face it in simulation before they do IRL because they're likely to face it multiple times.

According to Kirk he'd never experienced a no-win situation until TWOK after 5+ years as a captain so I think a no-win situation could be avoided.

Anyway I'm going to controversially say that Kirk didn't experience a no-win scenario in TWOK because I'm going to say rather harshly - Kirk won. His life was saved. David was saved, his ship and crew were saved. Sure Spock died but it wasn't like the KM test because in that test you didn't survive.

If the KM IRL was the period of uncertainty Kirk had between Khan setting off Genesis and Spock getting the reactor online then I'd argue that this also happened in "The Corbomite Maneuver" and to some extent in BOT and certainly in "Operation Annihilate!".

Was Kirk's KM in TWOK something I'm too unsophisticated to see, something to do with family ? I'd like to know.