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First Impressions?

First impression is that there wasn't much good about it, even pretending it's not Star Trek and as some new sci-fi series. Weird camera work in the ship where they'd rotate it from side to side. Not great writing or characters or plot or anything. My only Trek specific comment is that the Klingons were beyond horrible. I've not been a Martin-Green fan in the past but she was better in this than in anything else she's been in and toned down the brow scrunching. Her character though, no. Just first impressions.
 
I'm often reminded of how I'm not very artistic when people talk about camera angles. I never notice.

You know how when kids play airplane and put their arms out and rotate their body so their arm wings go to and fro? Now imagine the same except they're holding a camera and rotating it from side to side. We were getting that with standard shots on the bridge just pointing at an actor. Really weird and hard to miss.
 
Opening with a long monologue of Trekkie jibberish won't appeal to the mainstream audience.

Turning Klingons into weird, lisping, lizard orc things completely unrecognizable as Klingons won't appeal to fans, apologists on this forum aside.

Who was this show made for?
 
Okay. First impressions.

A bit on where I'm coming from with this, for context: my favorite Trek series is TOS, by a long shot; second favorite is DS9. My favorite Trek film is Wrath of Khan. I absolutely loathe the first two Abramsverse films, although Beyond was at least watchable and felt passably Trek-like.

So. My first impressions of Discovery, after the two-part pilot? Like most posters here, I think it was a mixed bag. What interesting is exploring the reactions to what's in the bag and how it's mixed.

I think the writing was mostly good, although it clearly suffers from creative struggles at the top and from being written by committee. You can make a pretty good guess at which parts, creatively, came from Bryan Fuller and Nick Meyer (who are incredibly talented people), and which parts came from Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman (who are atrociously talentless hacks). As for current showrunners Berg and Harberts, I'm not really familiar with their past work (nor with how much creative control they're actually allowed to have here), so I can only wait for them to prove themselves.

As to what they all wrote: many parts worked. There were (a few) scenes with dialogue that seemed genuine and illuminated character, rather than just conveying exposition. Burnham's background seems genuinely intriguing, and the source of some interesting internal conflicts. I like Sarek's involvement. Saru is simply a great new character, with the potential to be a breakout favorite. I like the fact that Trek is finally getting a chance to do a long-form serialized story, rather than being saddled with an obvious status quo and a reset button. I've never been much of a fan of Klingon-heavy stories (I've never seen why viewers should be expected care about characters caught up in the travails of what is basically a premodern society, completely patriarchal, militaristic, and honor-bound despite its tech level, unless they're actively trying to change it)... but I do like the concept of positioning the Klingons as a fragmented empire attempting to reunite itself.

Some parts didn't work. First and foremost, most of the scenes of the Klingons talking amongst themselves could and should have been left on the cutting room floor. They undermined any sense of suspense and destroyed the show's pacing. What they were doing was interesting, but the way it was portrayed wasn't, and we should have discovered it piecemeal just as they crew of the Shinzou did. Meanwhile... Most of the supporting characters, from the admiral on down, were unfortunately written to be disposable and instantly forgettable. As in the Abrams films, the writers seem to have forgotten that space is Really Big, and give us absurdities like real-time communication across half a quadrant, or entire fleets of ships from scattered starting points converging to warp in simultaneously on a single point — things that may provide a brief moment of on-screen drama, but at the expense of logic and plausibility. And while I'm fine with the notion of Burnham becoming a Starfleet outcast and having to claw her way back to respectability (from herself and others), the way the writers got there was incredibly contrived... her mutiny was badly under-motivated, and the later decision to send the Captain and First Officer onto the disabled Klingon ship alone was sheer stupidity, on the level of the worst of past Trek tropes.

I didn't much like the visuals, and felt they were often at odds with the intent of the writers. People keep posting that they're "stunning" and "beautiful"; I just don't see it. Expensive, yes: you can tell they put a lot of money on-screen. But that doesn't make them interesting. The overall production design is far too evocative of the Abrams films, which is not a good thing. The ship designs are too cluttered and inelegant, and sometimes just baffling (why are cells in the brig so huge?). The uniforms are bland. The Klingon redesign is godawful (and as others have remarked, they missed the opportunity that was clearly there in the story, with the repeated references to "24 houses," to present a variety of Klingon looks). The needlessly quick cuts and ever-moving camera make it difficult to get a clear sense of where anyone or anything is spatially, especially during action scenes. This isn't helped by the lighting being far too low, which at best makes it literally difficult to see what's on screen in many scenes, and at worst actively changes the mood of what's being presented — as in the court marital scene at the end, where the inexplicably dark courtroom takes what would be a perfectly normal official proceeding and makes it feel like a hostile star chamber, very un-Federation-like.

The acting was a mixed bag as well. Michelle Yeoh is a talented performer, but she was given a ton of really wooden dialogue to deliver, and she delivered most of it woodenly.Michael Frain has a thankless task following in the footsteps of the inimitable Mark Lenard as Sarek, but he seems to be doing a good job of it so far. Martin-Green is a standout as Burnham, taking advantage of every little nuance of character she's been given, and making even plot-driven actions seem emotionally credible. The Klingons were a disaster; the actors should never have had to deliver all that dialogue in Klingonese, which clearly compounded the already tough challenge of acting through massive face prosthetics (and which kept the audience from noticing the visuals anyway as we were stuck focusing on the subtitles).

As for how the show comes across conceptually, as part of the larger Trek universe — including consistency with continuity, which, yes, does matter to me? I like that it's set contemporary with Pike and the original Enterprise, and I think there are awesome storytelling possibilities there with the potential to explore the background of the TOS era in a way the show itself seldom could. To me, that era has always been the true heart and soul of Trek, and putting it in another century would have far less resonance. I don't like that it doesn't look like it fits that era, but again, that's the production design in conflict with the writing. It's odd that the show would remember and refer to Donatu V, for instance, a nice callout to one line of dialogue from a single episode 50 years ago, yet change the Klingons in a way dramatically at odds with scores if not hundreds of previous on-screen hours... and it leaves me wondering who's really in charge of the show and making the final creative decisions about these things. Still, on the whole, it seems like the writers appreciate that details matter — even if they occasionally blow it, as, for instance, in a moment when Captain Georgiou calls across the bridge to "ops," a jarringly 24th-century term, rather than "helmsman."

On the whole, Discovery seems to have a lot of potential to be great — but also a lot of potential to go badly awry. I wonder now much influence the network has on the content; hopefully CBS's (hamfisted) attempts at marketing haven't led to undue creative interference. Obviously the network wants the show to help anchor its new streaming service, but that's a heavy weight to carry, and — at least right out of the gate — it's hard to say whether the show is up to it. Certainly it didn't wow me and grab my attention like the premiere episodes of some other SF shows, even with lower budgets (e.g., The Expanse or Dark Matter), never mind "prestige" series like Game of Thrones. If it weren't for my affection for Trek, I'm not sure how long I'd stick around. But that affection does exist, and I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.
 
My thoughts and first impressions, in no particular order:

1) didn't immediately feel "Star Trek" but slowly came around. The feel is definitely not as "grim dark" as I expected, and I was one who would have been ok with that.

2) stronger characters in a premiere than we've ever seen. They felt fully formed (for the most part) rather than works in progress.

3) absolutely LOVED the Klingons, and I grew up on TNG/DS9 and loved them in those shows. These Klingons, for the first time, feel like a true alien race. We understand in just one episode, what they're really about beyond a flimsy sound-bite "warrior race." We get a sense of an Empire and culture in turmoil, forced to re-examine itself, to find its place in an evolving political landscape. Fascinating stuff.

4) The Federation and Klingons for the first time felt like two cultiures with vastly opposing ideologies. Not just that one is peaceful, and one is warlike. But they felt like very had very different fundamental outlooks on the universe, and we understood this within one episode. Amazing! Highly impressed.

5) For the first time in a long time, there was no technobabble, beyond the basics. The challenges and solutions were character based, not some hitherto seen before energy beam or subspace field.

6) Social commentary was ever-present and that's a GREAT thing. Some have said they "hit you over the head with it" but really, when you look back at TOS' "Battlefield," TNGs "The Outcast" and DS9s "Rejoined", you'll see Trek's long history of "hit you over the head with a social message."

7) the changes in canon did not bother me one bit, and frankly, while I own books like the chronology, and have seen every episode a dozen times over (or more), I'm not canon obsessed or continuity dependent. End of the day these are not the things that Trek should be ruled by.

The show is far from perfect, it has its flaws, but they are minor ones (like lens flares and camera angles) that did not hamper my enjoyment of a quality story. I am very much looking forward to it unfolding.

Lots more to unpack, but these are my initial impressions, mostly (if not all) positive. By and large I was a tad skeptical through the first episode, but by the end of the second I was hooked. BRING IT ON!
 
I enjoyed it. it is still very early, we haven't even seen the Discovery yet, so I'm willing to give it a chance to grow. It is off to a promising start though.
 
I really enjoyed these first two episodes. Love the look of the show for the most part. The Shenzou looked great. The uniforms manage to look even worse in motion than in static pics. They're the only real aesthetic failing to my eye.

Things I loved:
Loved the Klingons. The broken empire, the fanatical cult, the attempted unification. This is the most interesting Klingons have been since TUC.
Loved that Starfleet failed at every turn. That the characters screwed up and made mistakes. That their choices look to have real consequences moving forward.
Loved Michelle Yeoh. She was the best part of the episode, and hopefully has more to do in this series down the road.

Oh, and Saru (Sar'u? Haven't caught the correct spelling yet). Doug Jones really sells the full makeup characters.

About the only thing I didn't like was Burnham. The actress seems fine so far, but the character is really, really unlikeable. Which thus far seems like it's probably the point. So we'll see what they do with her for the rest of the season before I worry too much.
Wow. Talk about a case study in different subjective impressions! I think the only thing we agree on is Saru.

Beyond that... the ship did nothing to impress me (inside or out), what's being done with the Klingons sounds great in concept but comes across terribly in execution, IMHO Michelle Yeoh phoned in her performance, and I think Burnham is a fascinating character with tons of potential.

Go figure...

It was okay, nothing phenomenal, but I liked how they're mixing JJ's Trek with previous series.
This is what I like least about it. The exact same show with the same writing and acting (mixed bags though both are), but a visual aesthetic that actually looked like Trek's 23rd century (albeit with modern production values!) rather than the overt callouts to the look of the Abramsverse, would IMHO be far more satisfying.

First impressions.
It would have been nice if the representatives of the Klingon houses had softened the blow of the Klingon redesign. One could have had the long hair we're familiar with and another one's armor could have resembled the TNG era. Maybe throw in a TOS sash or mustache. For independent houses with no contact they all got the memo, we're all shaving our heads now and armor is hot this season.
This, so much. Talk about a missed opportunity — it was sitting right there in the story as written, just waiting to be picked up, and the folks doing the production design completely ignored it.
 
Wow. Talk about a case study in different subjective impressions! I think the only thing we agree on is Saru.

Beyond that... the ship did nothing to impress me (inside or out), what's being done with the Klingons sounds great in concept but comes across terribly in execution, IMHO Michelle Yeoh phoned in her performance, and I think Burnham is a fascinating character with tons of potential.

Go figure...


This is what I like least about it. The exact same show with the same writing and acting (mixed bags though both are), but a visual aesthetic that actually looked like Trek's 23rd century (albeit with modern production values!) rather than the overt callouts to the look of the Abramsverse, would IMHO be far more satisfying.


This, so much. Talk about a missed opportunity — it was sitting right there in the story as written, just waiting to be picked up, and the folks doing the production design completely ignored it.

We've only seen what, 6 or 7 of 24 houses? Who knows how this unfolds. But if what we've seen is all there is, I am fine with that. I have accepted and embraced that they are retconning the look of the Klingons just as they did in TMP.
 
Here's one thing that I don't get: how would peaceful coexistence with the Federation and respecting each other's borders cause the Federation to "take all that we are" and not allow them to remain Klingon?
 
Here's one thing that I don't get: how would peaceful coexistence with the Federation and respecting each other's borders cause the Federation to "take all that we are" and not allow them to remain Klingon?

You seemed to have missed the point: T'Kumva was using the Federation as a way to unite the 24 houses. It doesn't matter whether he's right or wrong in his argument. In all likelihood, he knows they don't pose a real true threat.

But on the other hand, the philosophy of the Federation (peace and acceptance) is diametrically opposed to the Klingon mentality and culture. As we've seen from previous shows, the Klingons are all about conquest and dominance. To respect Federation borders is to show they are not the strongest, that they are not in control of their adversaries.

We've seen them use this argument time and time again, such as in TUC, TNG's "The Drumhead" (when J'Dan says that "the blood of all Klingons has become water").

This is a deeper exploration of those concepts.
 
You seemed to have missed the point: T'Kumva was using the Federation as a way to unite the 24 houses. It doesn't matter whether he's right or wrong in his argument. In all likelihood, he knows they don't pose a real true threat.

But on the other hand, the philosophy of the Federation (peace and acceptance) is diametrically opposed to the Klingon mentality and culture. As we've seen from previous shows, the Klingons are all about conquest and dominance. To respect Federation borders is to show they are not the strongest, that they are not in control of their adversaries.

We've seen them use this argument time and time again, such as in TUC, TNG's "The Drumhead" (when J'Dan says that "the blood of all Klingons has become water").

This is a deeper exploration of those concepts.
I guess that makes sense just from a general "if we make peace we are not Klingons because we are warriors" perspective. So to "Remain Klingon" we have to be at war with everyone.
 
I guess that makes sense just from a general "if we make peace we are not Klingons because we are warriors" perspective. So to "Remain Klingon" we have to be at war with everyone.

Not that they have to be at constant war, but maybe more, "we have to show everyone how dominant we are" (something they say pretty unequivocally).

I think it's a very clear and obvious parallel to world powers today who simply hate our western way of life and democracy. To the Klingons, even accepting the Federation as neighbors with a right to peace, even respecting their borders, shows weakness.

On another level, they look around and, like the North Koreans or Russians, see the rest of the world uniting as allies, and they begin to feel surrounded-- and thus on the defensive. In response, their first instinct is to attack.
 
I guess that makes sense just from a general "if we make peace we are not Klingons because we are warriors" perspective. So to "Remain Klingon" we have to be at war with everyone.
John M. Ford's classic Trek novel The Final Reflection had some influence on the writers of Discovery, from what I've read... and although not strictly consistent with later Klingon continuity, it still offers some fascinating insight into the culture. In particular I remember its use of the Klingon proverb "komerex tel khesterex" as describing the only two options for a culture — "expansion or death." Klingons do not have the concept of a stable mutually beneficial equilibrium. If the Empire is not conquering, it is decaying, inviting subjugation.

(I really liked Ford's version of the Klingons. It's a shame so much of it was disregarded by the way the culture was later developed during the TNG years.)
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Komerex
 
I was feeling so good this afternoon... "I am gonna see a NEW Star Trek Series!"
I started watching on Netflix with a huge smile on my face, but gradually my excitement was going away..
And my initial happiness turned to frustration.
I do not know what this thing that I saw is... but it is not Star Trek.
I am not gonna talk about the grim aesthetics, the out of era technology, the Klingons (what torture to listen to them), the bad acting and the whinny JarJarBings in the bridge. Pilots can have all this problems.

But what the hell happened to the Federation and the Starfleet we know?
The main lead must be the worst No2 of all Starfleet ships in all Star Trek Series. Ever!
Strike first? Strike First? Go to mutiny to strike first???
And then..use bombs on dead soldiers to kill the enemy.. omg..a Federation captain decided this???
This is not an alternate timeline.. this is an alternate universe. Is this the mirror universe or something??

And what was this Kafkaesque court martial thing at the end?
Why put shadows and hide the faces of the Judges? of Federation Judges?
To make it grim? Who wrote this stuff? a 1st year student in arts college?

My only hope is the tradition of bad Star Trek Pilots and that we have basically spent 2 hours to watch a teaser and not the actual ship and crew.
 
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