First contact...

[Discofan]

I sincerely don't get why some people are so enamored of this flick. Nothing in it makes sense. First, we see Picard having PTSD nightmares and then we're supposed to share the crew's outrage that the brass thinks that Picard is not fit to combat them because of said PTSD... Whatever... later we see Picard making downright insane decisions, proving that the brass was right about him all along. Now he's suffered from PTSD for six years, yet he gets over it in a matter of minutes (nay seconds).... OK... So they decide to put Picard on the side, which is fine by me, but in a battle so crucial, why do so to the Enterprise E as well? Why deprive yourself of one of the most powerful ships of your fleet? Why not put Riker for example in temporary command of it?

Picard knows the weak spot of a cube but he keeps it to himself until the last moment!! Why not put it in a report? What are reports for? I am sure the people who died in the attack would have been glad to have that information...

"Ramming speed?", someone has been watching "Ben Hur" lately...


Somehow I think our tactics have changed since the Roman Empire...

The Borg know a way to travel back in time but they don't use it, until they're almost destroyed... Why? Why not do so first and then fly toward Earth totally unopposed?


The Borg drop charges on Cochrane's camp that are ridiculous!!! One single torpedo would wipe out all life within several kilometers around it. So why not do it? Do they have scruples somehow? Is there a Borg museum where they wish to expose Cochrane failed attempt at warp speed or something?

Quantum torpedoes seem to be deadly to the Borg... So why didn't they use them during the battle? Or are they deadly only when Picard fires them?

Are we supposed to believe that the dwellers of that shanty town with nothing but rags on their backs will develop a starship so advanced that right now we have no idea how they could do it, even on a theoretical level? I mean these people look like they have trouble feeding themselves on a daily basis, let alone do anything else!

Cochrane reaches 30 000 kilometers per second without any problem at all. It's not even considered exceptional. Right now we can't even reach 30 kilometers per second without enormous expenses!!!


And I promise you, this is only a fraction of what I could write on the subject.

 

[NCC-73515]

It's a nice illustration of the schism in our fandom that a Disco fan hates Picard and FC.

 

[Vger23]

Just like virtually every other Star Trek film, it is considerably flawed if one spends too much time dissecting it rather than simply enjoying and being swept away by it.

 

[NCC-73515]

The nice things far outweigh the stupid things.

 

[Admiral Archer]

It's a nice illustration of the schism in our fandom that a Disco fan hates Picard and FC.

I love both. There is room in the universe for both First Contact and Discovery. IMO both are Trek at the top of it's game.

 

[NCC-73515]

So do I, but FC was better than Disco IMO

 

[arch101]

Fan for over 40 years here- I just find FC entertaining. Does it have flaws if you pick it apart? You bet- but I dare say they all do (even my beloved TMP). I just think it's a more entertaining film than most of them. It's the one I most often show to a non-fan and they seem to be entertained, too. They wouldn't be by TSFS, TFF, Gen, Nem, etc. and I find them to be poorer films as well. I also like that there are nods in there to every Trek production to that time: TOS, DS9 and Voy are all represented. (even Ent is in there if you count that Borg ep that picks up on the film)

 

[jackoverfull]

It surely has flaws, but some of the things you mention are easy to explain.

Now he's suffered from PTSD for six years, yet he gets over it in a matter of minutes (nay seconds)

No he doesn't. He realises the wrongs of his ways and acts accordingly in that situation, but he has a long way to go before getting over his assimilation, as also shown on St:Picard.

So they decide to put Picard on the side, which is fine by me, but in a battle so crucial, why do so to the Enterprise E as well? Why deprive yourself of one of the most powerful ships of your fleet? Why not put Riker for example in temporary command of it?

Perhaps they were actually worried about the Romulans attacking and thought of using a good ship that would prevent them to do so but could have been an hindrance against the borg.

Picard knows the weak spot of a cube but he keeps it to himself until the last moment!! Why not put it in a report? What are reports for? I am sure the people who died in the attack would have been glad to have that information...

Picard didn't know the weak spot of the cube until that moment. Also, it's likely such weak spot was weak only because of the massive damage already suffered by the cube. If you pay attention, Picard is still partly linked to the collective and receives a telepathic communication just before giving his orders, in that communication he discovers the weak spot.

This telepathic link, by the way, possibly constitutes a liability, if starfleet is aware of it it might explain why they don't want to involve Picard in the battle. Even without extreme situations such as Picard's mind being taken over by the collective, it's likely the link works two way, so the Borg, in theory, could have extracted informations on Starfleet's weaknesses from picard's mind!

"Ramming speed?", someone has been watching "Ben Hur" lately...

Ramming speed has been in SF for a loooong time, it has a definite meaning, different from best safe speed, and it's used in a totally appropriate manner here.

The Borg know a way to travel back in time but they don't use it, until they're almost destroyed... Why? Why not do so first and then fly toward Earth totally unopposed?

Very good question. Perhaps time travel depletes the energy of the sphere, so they had to be in the same solar system before doing this. This also explains why the sphere is left without power for the deflectors and main weapons.

Or, for an even more intriguing explanation, see below.

The Borg drop charges on Cochrane's camp that are ridiculous!!! One single torpedo would wipe out all life within several kilometers around it. So why not do it? Do they have scruples somehow? Is there a Borg museum where they wish to expose Cochrane failed attempt at warp speed or something?

Easy explanation: the Borg sphere was almost without energy at that point.

More interesting explanation: what if the borg weren't trying to destroy the Phoenix? What if they went back in time, bringing the Enterprise as well, exactly to cause the first contact?

Quantum torpedoes seem to be deadly to the Borg... So why didn't they use them during the battle? Or are they deadly only when Picard fires them?

The sphere's shield were no longer operative at that point. They say this on screen…

Are we supposed to believe that the dwellers of that shanty town with nothing but rags on their backs will develop a starship so advanced that right now we have no idea how they could do it, even on a theoretical level? I mean these people look like they have trouble feeding themselves on a daily basis, let alone do anything else!

It's still many decades in the future and they had been working on it many years. Apart from the ease they leave the atmosphere I don't see it as totally impossible (and even that: many years in the future. Maybe we'll find an easy way to lift off in twenty years).

 

[Vger23]

Fan for over 40 years here- I just find FC entertaining. Does it have flaws if you pick it apart? You bet- but I dare say they all do (even my beloved TMP). I just think it's a more entertaining film than most of them. It's the one I most often show to a non-fan and they seem to be entertained, too. They wouldn't be by TSFS, TFF, Gen, Nem, etc. and I find them to be poorer films as well. I also like that there are nods in there to every Trek production to that time: TOS, DS9 and Voy are all represented. (even Ent is in there if you count that Borg ep that picks up on the film)

Strangely enough, every non-Trek fan that I've shown NEM to has thoroughly enjoyed it. It's actually also the film that hooked my (at the time non-fan) wife on Trek.

 

[Admiral Archer]

Strangely enough, every non-Trek fan that I've shown NEM to has thoroughly enjoyed it. It's actually also the film that hooked my (at the time non-fan) wife on Trek.

Wish I had your luck - I showed Nemesis to my high school class, and they viciously tore it apart. The only thing they favorably commented on was how much Data reminded them of me (an odd observation, but it is what it is) and even then, they all hated me anyway, so it didn't matter in the long run.

This might be a contributing factor to why Nemesis is my least favorite Trek film, though the death of Data, the lackluster and hollow ending, and the deleted scenes being the best parts of the film certainly don't help.

 

[Discofan]

...

More interesting explanation: what if the borg weren't trying to destroy the Phoenix? What if they went back in time, bringing the Enterprise as well, exactly to cause the first contact?

...

Yeah, and I suppose the borg queen being dissolved was part of that plan too... Maybe she didn't really want to destroy the phoenix, maybe she was expecting what happened!!! That's it!!


Which brings another point that I forgot to mention. I mean, we clearly saw the sphere being blown to bits... Anything in it non-metallic should have been vaporized, yet not only did a few of them (including the queen) managed to survive but they also managed to sneak onto the Enterprise completely unnoticed.

I mean, that's not sci. fi. that's black magic! You could almost hear Santana... "I got a black magic queen and she made a drone out of me..."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Ywe clearly saw the sphere being blown to bits... Anything in it non-metallic should have been vaporized, yet not only did a few of them (including the queen) managed to survive but they also managed to sneak onto the Enterprise completely unnoticed.

The Borg had ample opportunity to sneak a few drones aboard before the sphere was destroyed. And I'm sure they had means to transport said drones without being detected.

 

[Discofan]

The Borg had ample opportunity to sneak a few drones aboard before the sphere was destroyed. And I'm sure they had means to transport said drones without being detected.

Unlikely, if they can transport through the shields then why not just transport torpedoes inside each ship that attacks them, the battle would be over in a matter of minutes!! (they did that on Voyager btw, except it was the other way around, Voyager beamed a bomb aboard a borg ship) So why not do that and be done with Starfleet altogether? It's like the borg really don't want to win. Each time they have an opportunity they manage to ruin it.

 

[jackoverfull]

Yeah, and I suppose the borg queen being dissolved was part of that plan too.

well, somehow she shows up again on Voyager, doesn’t she?

Which brings another point that I forgot to mention. I mean, we clearly saw the sphere being blown to bits... Anything in it non-metallic should have been vaporized, yet not only did a few of them (including the queen) managed to survive but they also managed to sneak onto the Enterprise completely unnoticed.

they beamed aboard before being destroyed, while the enterprise’s shields were down. They say exactly as much in the movie.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

if they can transport through the shields then why not just transport torpedoes inside each ship that attacks them, the battle would be over in a matter of minutes!!

You can't assimilate a vessel if it's been destroyed.

 

[Discofan]

You can't assimilate a vessel if it's been destroyed.

Borg are not interested in assimilating vessels, otherwise, you'd see Borg travel in all kinds of alien ships instead of just borg ships (IE cubes and spheres mostly).

 

[DonIago]

Actually, in "Q Who" the Borg are more interested in technology than people, and it's a surprise in BOBW when they express a specific interest in Picard, so I don't think you can make that assumption.

 

[Discofan]

Actually, in "Q Who" the Borg are more interested in technology than people, and it's a surprise in BOBW when they express a specific interest in Picard, so I don't think you can make that assumption.

So how do you explain that we never see Borg travel in assimilated federation ships, or Cardassian ship, or whatever?
All the borg ships we see are very similar, simple geometrical forms that look like the compressed cube of a car (the kind we see in junkyards).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

All the borg ships we see are very similar, simple geometrical forms that look like the compressed cube of a car (the kind we see in junkyards).

In the ENT episode "Regeneration", the Borg capture the Arctic One transport vessel and begin assimilating it. As the episode progresses, Arctic One begins to look more and more like a cube. Which suggests that whenever the Borg set about assimilating a vessel, a cube is the inevitable result.

For all we know, every Borg cube we have ever seen (such as the one in "Q Who") is some other vessel which has been assimilated. The longer the Borg have to work on it, the more like a cube it will look.

 

[David cgc]

Unlikely, if they can transport through the shields then why not just transport torpedoes inside each ship that attacks them, the battle would be over in a matter of minutes!! (they did that on Voyager btw, except it was the other way around, Voyager beamed a bomb aboard a borg ship) So why not do that and be done with Starfleet altogether? It's like the borg really don't want to win. Each time they have an opportunity they manage to ruin it.

The Enterprise's shields were down after they went through the time portal. It's mentioned twice.