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First contact...

At last, someone who agrees with me! I was very unpleasantly surprised when I saw this movie for the first time during a TNG-movie marathon at a cinema a couple of years ago. I shared my thoughts on it on another site, but didn't get much positive response; as you will see, our thoughts are very similar:

"I never liked episodes that features distorted timelines et.al., as they mostly use the element of time to create whatever scenario they want without having to bother with explanations. Therefore one can imagine my great disappointment when it in the beginning of First Contact turns out that the Borg has time travel technology.

Come again? Time travel technology which they for some reason only use as a last resort to get away from Enterprise AND at the same time to assimilate Earth one day before humanity makes first contact with the Vulcans.

This plot alone is not very intelligent, but it's the best we get in this mess; because the rest is basically the rest of the crew trying to convince this alcoholic dimwit that they have to fly his ship as planned(?). The scenery is nice, but why the film makers decided to depict Cochrane and Co. as some hillbillies in a Mad Max-style commune - which, a part from the first space ship that can transcend light speed, only houses a giant jukebox and some bar stools - is beyond me.

Meanwhile, Picard spends an eternity on a Borg infected Enterprise, going from the identical room to the next, either executing assimilated crewmen or tinkering with some circuits.

The Borg queen starts out as an interesting villain, but rather quickly descends to something all too human. The interaction with her and Data is at first quite intriguing, but after a while it seems pointless. It doesn't seem plausible that Data can be converted to a human; and I fail to see the ultimate purpose behind it.

As a long time fan of the series it's heartbreaking to see one of the most enigmatic and iconic villains in sci-fi history be portrayed as something which not correspond with earlier characterizations. Being able to destroy the Borg cube so easily, the Borg queens human like persona and their (new found) ability to travel in time are all things that frankly disrespects what the series established.

It sure looks good, especially the animations in space and the interior of the Enterprise. They also really made an extraordinary effort with the make-up and costumes. The music and sound effects are also of high quality.

However, it's neither convincing, captivating nor, in the end, very entertaining."


Indeed, the Borg Queen as a sex maniac! I mean, as we've seen only a small portion of her upper body is partly made of flesh, the rest is one hundred percent borg technology. What did they put down there? An electronic vagina? Yeah, that's believable? And as we've seen after the flesh dissolving thing, even the fleshy part contains a great deal of metal. I doubt Shylock could have found his pound of flesh there!
 
What's that got to do with the borg? Why would borg devise artificial sex organs that are never to be used?
if they are to be used they would.

And since this very body might have been built onboard the enterprise (the queen is assembled there, after all) they might have built them, as their plan demanded their existence.
 
Also, sex doesn’t necessarily involve “proper” sexual organs...something that data knows well, being trained in multiple techniques.
 
totally agreed here. But perhaps after seven years of abstinence one might feel different, especially in front of such a magnetic personality (when your bones are made of metal).

Plus it's a joke that Data made in Generations "I have a magnetic personality" so he definitely can understand it.;)
 
Every story will have elements that are contrived or at least can seem contrived and every story requires some suspension of disbelief.

So they decide to put Picard on the side, which is fine by me, but in a battle so crucial, why do so to the Enterprise E as well? Why deprive yourself of one of the most powerful ships of your fleet? Why not put Riker for example in temporary command of it?

Though there was the line that it was the most advanced ship, it's believable to me that Starfleet Command thought it wouldn't have made a lot of difference in itself, especially if even not formally in command Picard would have a negative impact. Real universe, the ship going to battle but the captain being confined to quarters or otherwise not allowed to command, and then at some point deciding to do so anyway and getting his first officer acting in command to let him, seems like it would come off as far too television-ish, drawn-out with less drama and urgency than what we did get.

Picard knows the weak spot of a cube but he keeps it to himself until the last moment!! Why not put it in a report?

Pretty sure that was, and was meant to come off as, spur of the moment intuition based on the present battle situation.

The Borg know a way to travel back in time but they don't use it, until they're almost destroyed... Why? Why not do so first and then fly toward Earth totally unopposed?

In both invasions of the Federation they only sent one ship (and with just that almost succeeded), them therefore not using time travel and changing the past until the last moment, after being beaten a second time, and then doing so seems in line with that to me.
 
Apparently, there was no "Edith Keeler"* type of person among the dozens that were killed by the borg's bombardment when they attacked the camp otherwise the future Picard and crew would have found upon their return would have been a lot different than the one they left.

* Someone who seems unimportant but turns out, plays a key role for the future.
 
Apparently, there was no "Edith Keeler"* type of person among the dozens that were killed by the borg's bombardment when they attacked the camp otherwise the future Picard and crew would have found upon their return would have been a lot different than the one they left.

* Someone who seems unimportant but turns out, plays a key role for the future.
yes, it was lucky that killing those people didn’t cause major timeline shifts, however consider this: the conditions on Earth are pretty bad and life expectancy certainly pretty low (Cochrane is the first to appear some 30 years older than he should!), even with the help of the Vulcans it will take a few years before stabilizing the situation; those people’s life accomplishment was to launch the Phoenix, which happened, after that they would have probably died in a few years anyway.
 
I sincerely don't get why some people are so enamored of this flick. Nothing in it makes sense. First, we see Picard having PTSD nightmares and then we're supposed to share the crew's outrage that the brass thinks that Picard is not fit to combat them because of said PTSD... Whatever... later we see Picard making downright insane decisions, proving that the brass was right about him all along. Now he's suffered from PTSD for six years, yet he gets over it in a matter of minutes (nay seconds).... OK... So they decide to put Picard on the side, which is fine by me, but in a battle so crucial, why do so to the Enterprise E as well? Why deprive yourself of one of the most powerful ships of your fleet? Why not put Riker for example in temporary command of it?

Riker just lost the Ent-D when all he had to do was fire back at a far weaker BoP. They probably weren’t ready to lose the Ent-E so soon.

Picard knows the weak spot of a cube but he keeps it to himself until the last moment!! Why not put it in a report? What are reports for? I am sure the people who died in the attack would have been glad to have that information...

Considering Starfleet decided to put their best crew on a sensor sweep of the Neutral Zone, they probably would not have listen to Picard.

"Ramming speed?", someone has been watching "Ben Hur" lately...
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Somehow I think our tactics have changed since the Roman Empire...

This is also the same time that the Federation has dealings with the Dominion. The logic is probably if a Jemhadar ship can take down a Galaxy class ship via a kamikaze attack, then maybe the same tactics will work here.

Plus glorious Klingon death during battle and all of that jazz.

The Borg know a way to travel back in time but they don't use it, until they're almost destroyed... Why? Why not do so first and then fly toward Earth totally unopposed?

Probably for the same reason that Kirk and crew flew around the sun in the Sol system instead of a different sun to travel back in time…they know where they want to go and it is of greater proximity for time travel, meaning they don’t have to deal with any unforeseen events if they start from a further location.

The Borg drop charges on Cochrane's camp that are ridiculous!!! One single torpedo would wipe out all life within several kilometers around it. So why not do it? Do they have scruples somehow? Is there a Borg museum where they wish to expose Cochrane failed attempt at warp speed or something?

The Borg don’t do anything that makes sense. The Borg could have swarmed the Alpha Quadrant at the beginning of the film with ships. The Borg could have destroyed the Vulcan ship that lands on Earth before it entered the system. The Borg would have gone to Vulcan in 2063 instead since they would be no match for them, preventing both first contact and the Federation. The Borg could have chosen to time travel to the Eugenics Wars in the 1990s (the original Third World War in Trek) and assimilated Khan and the other augments. The Borg even waste time with the Ent-E’s deflector dish instead of just beaming down and start assimilating.

Nothing they do makes sense.

Quantum torpedoes seem to be deadly to the Borg... So why didn't they use them during the battle? Or are they deadly only when Picard fires them?

Picard knew the weak points of the Borg Cube. But even Picard’s tactics are nothing compared to Janeway’s Deflector Dish and transphasic torpedoes.

Or maybe this cube and the one from the BoBW were the best the Borg had to offer. Since the rest were being destroyed by Species 8472.

Are we supposed to believe that the dwellers of that shanty town with nothing but rags on their backs will develop a starship so advanced that right now we have no idea how they could do it, even on a theoretical level? I mean these people look like they have trouble feeding themselves on a daily basis, let alone do anything else!

Just because they are wearing rags doesn’t mean they know nothing. They could be all military scientist for all you know, and warp drive could have been in the works for decades (i.e. the Bonaventure from TAS). They did just go through a nuclear war, and presumably a nuclear autumn at minimum, plus morality in some corners of the world went down the drain. I think it’s understandable that they don’t look their best here.

Cochrane reaches 30 000 kilometers per second without any problem at all. It's not even considered exceptional. Right now we can't even reach 30 kilometers per second without enormous expenses!!!

I’m pretty sure that Riker and La Forge read the history books about this event and were more enthralled that they got to experience it themselves. It would have been a bigger deal on Earth once Cochrane returned. We don’t see that part, since Picard and crew when back to their time.

And I promise you, this is only a fraction of what I could write on the subject.

Feel free to write more.

Apparently, there was no "Edith Keeler"* type of person among the dozens that were killed by the borg's bombardment when they attacked the camp otherwise the future Picard and crew would have found upon their return would have been a lot different than the one they left.


* Someone who seems unimportant but turns out, plays a key role for the future.

This is the same time period as the Earth-Kzin Wars. Thos people would have probably died anyways if that conflict was still ongoing.

Plus Lily might have been Edith Keeler for the Mirror Universe.
 
Probably for the same reason that Kirk and crew flew around the sun in the Sol system instead of a different sun to travel back in time…they know where they want to go and it is of greater proximity for time travel, meaning they don’t have to deal with any unforeseen events if they start from a further location.
interestingly, if Kirk had chosen any other star they would have found themselves stranded in the past, since the BoP ended up without a functional warp drive after the time-warp.

The Borg even waste time with the Ent-E’s deflector dish instead of just beaming down and start assimilating.
good point: they could have beamed down to a few locations on earth instead of on the enterprise and good luck avoiding damage to the past. More evidence there was more to their plan than what it might appear!
 
A few points:
1) I've always assumed Picard didn't know about the "weak point" on the Borg ship until he 'overheard' the collective. He wasn't holding anything back, and I don't know why anyone would think he would.
2) I've always assumed that for the Borg, Plan A was to assimilate Earth in the present, and the time travel was a hastily-constructed Plan B. It seems to go against their MO, because why would they want to assimilate Earth when it's less advanced?
3) I've always assumed that the Borg send a single cube because they're interested in assimilating Earth, but not that interested. Plus, if Earth survives, they construct better tech that'll be more tasty to assimilate later. Hell, perhaps future humanity is actually the origins of the Borg and hence the Borg are nudging humanity in that direction.
4) We don't really know whether the timeline Our Heroes return to is the same as the one they left. We also don't know whether this was a predestination paradox.
5) Assuming Starfleet's concerns had been legitimate, just imagine what might have happened if Picard had gone all Locutus at an inopportune moment. It's easy to condemn them with the benefit of hindsight, but FC did establish that Picard had some level of connection to the Borg, and we don't know what might have happened had the Borg exploited it.
 
I take it that by nuclear autumn you mean a nuclear winter only not as bad... Well, you'd better hope that it's not as bad because the last nuclear winter caused a major extinction event, there have been only five that we know of and each time nearly ninety percent of the species were wiped out. In fact, we were really close to earth becoming uninhabitable for good.


@Donlago: You know paradoxes are not supposed to happen, don't you? The reason they are called paradoxes is that they lead to an impossibility or a contradiction, which amount to the same thing.
 
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