First contact rules

[Captrek]

The Federation has a rule against making contact with pre-warp civilizations. While I can sympathize with the notion that such civilizations just be left alone, it seems to me the rule can only work if it’s enforced on everyone. When the Federation is eschewing contact with a pre-warp civilization, what keeps the Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Cardassians, Xenkathi, Sheliak, Borg etc. from contacting it?

 

[UssGlenn]

When the Federation is eschewing contact with a pre-warp civilization, what keeps the Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Cardassians, Xenkathi, Sheliak, Borg etc. from contacting it?

Any worlds fortunate enough to be in Federation space would be protected from contact (although the rules for Fed civilians are unclear). If they are in someone else's sphere of influence, the Federation has no say in the matter.

 

[Mudd]

The Federation has a rule against making contact with pre-warp civilizations. While I can sympathize with the notion that such civilizations just be left alone, it seems to me the rule can only work if it’s enforced on everyone. When the Federation is eschewing contact with a pre-warp civilization, what keeps the Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Cardassians, Xenkathi, Sheliak, Borg etc. from contacting it?

All those non-military Starfleet vessels armed to the teeth with non-military firepower that can blast half a continent to dust?*

*In the most non-military way possible.

 

[BillJ]

Nothing stops them from interfering. Doesn’t mean you completely give up your values, just that sometimes there are situations where they won’t be valid.

 

[Shawnster]

Any worlds fortunate enough to be in Federation space would be protected from contact (although the rules for Fed civilians are unclear). If they are in someone else's sphere of influence, the Federation has no say in the matter.

Why? What gives the Federation the right to prevent one species from contacting another when neither species are Federation members?

It's not just the Romulans or Klingons. There are numerous warp capable smaller civilizations out there. What about one of these planets in the middle of Federation space, yet not Federation members.

 

[Mudd]

Why? What gives the Federation the right to prevent one species from contacting another when neither species are Federation members?

They are arguably protecting their own vital interests by preventing competing warp-capable governments from gaining advantage and growing their influence relative to the Federation. That's really the only "right" they need to invoke.

The other space-going governments are stipulated to be their peers by virtue of apparent technological parity, and the Feds therefore can defend against any claims that they are being oppressors. And by the logic of General Order One itself, the Feds are doing no harm to less-advanced species by blocking the moves of the Klingons, Romulans, etc. From the POV of the less advanced societies they are not even being protected; as far as such beings know, nothing is being done to or for them at all.

There's no justification for the Federation's competitors to complain, and the less-advanced worlds have no one to complain to and nothing they're aware of to complain about.

The logic of it is very nearly air-tight. Brilliant. Maybe even a bit Machiavellian.

 

[The Wormhole]

When the Federation is eschewing contact with a pre-warp civilization, what keeps the Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Cardassians, Xenkathi, Sheliak, Borg etc. from contacting it?

Absolutely nothing. And technically speaking, it's only Starfleet that can't contact pre-warp civilizations, Federation civilians apparently aren't forbidden, at least according to TNG Angel One.

 

[BillJ]

Absolutely nothing. And technically speaking, it's only Starfleet that can't contact pre-warp civilizations, Federation civilians apparently aren't forbidden, at least according to TNG Angel One.

Not sure how seriously anyone should treat "Angel One".

 

[The Wormhole]

Not sure how seriously anyone should treat "Angel One".

I dunno. It gets points because its depiction of a matriarchal society pisses off incels.

Which has nothing to do with the discussion, but there we are.

 

[BillJ]

I dunno. It gets points because its depiction of a matriarchal society pisses off incels.

Does anyone outside of hard core Trek fans even know of its existence?

 

[The Wormhole]

Probably not. But I digress.

 

[Shawnster]

Does anyone outside of hard core Trek fans even know of its existence?

Most people outside of hard core Trek fans can hardly name many episodes

 

[Tuskin38]

Absolutely nothing. And technically speaking, it's only Starfleet that can't contact pre-warp civilizations, Federation civilians apparently aren't forbidden, at least according to TNG Angel One.

Worf's brother was said to be violating the prime directive despite being a civilian.

 

[publiusr]

And how do you deal with that I wonder…the news networks show someone led off after feeding starving citizens with a replicator—that would look bad…especially if the replicator could not produce weapons.

 

[UssGlenn]

Absolutely nothing. And technically speaking, it's only Starfleet that can't contact pre-warp civilizations, Federation civilians apparently aren't forbidden, at least according to TNG Angel One.

I just reviewed the transcript. So, the Odin survivors didn't make first contact. In fact Data notes a Federation Starship visted 62 years previously, and that wasn't said to be first contact either. So the only part of the PD thats in play here is the "internal affairs" part. The odd part is, even if Starfleet cant force them to leave, the Authorities of Angel One could certainly sentence them all to banishment off planet, and then Starfleet should be in the clear to remove them.

Anyway I suspect Starfleet is allowed to forcibly prevent civilians from making first contact, but can't actually prohibit it because of Emergency landing situations.

 

[The Wormhole]

Worf's brother was said to be violating the prime directive despite being a civilian.

I assumed he was with the Federation's civilian exploration service (the guys who wear the silver and gray jumpsuits) and that organization also follows the Prime Directive of their own choosing.

 

[Mojochi]

Worf's brother was said to be violating the prime directive despite being a civilian.

I'm pretty sure his research fell under Federation regulation. At the very least, he was UFP adjacent, & being human from Earth, it's hard to see how he'd be otherwise in his field.

I assumed he was with the Federation's civilian exploration service (the guys who wear the silver and gray jumpsuits) and that organization also follows the Prime Directive of their own choosing.

Like the terraformers in Homesoil, right. Makes sense to me.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I dunno. It gets points because its depiction of a matriarchal society pisses off incels.

I'm involuntarily celibate (and at my age, resigned to it), and it doesn't piss me off.

 

[Guy Gardener]

A replicator that can't make knives or 15 litres of chlorine a minute for our swimming pool. Keeping a swimming pool clean is very important, so a hundred letters a minute of ammonia would be swell too.

One replicator, used with care, can destroy a planet.

 

[Captrek]

I'm involuntarily celibate (and at my age, resigned to it), and it doesn't piss me off.

Involuntary celibate and incel aren’t the same thing. An involuntary celibate is anyone who suffers from the condition. An incel is someone who adheres to a vile misogynistic philosophy.