First Contact isn't a great movie

[Gary Sebben]

I'm so sick of hearing about how First Contact "ruined" the Borg. How could this movie possibly work without the Queen? Data would just sit in that machine and have his conversation with a bunch of simultaneous echoing voices like the crew would on the show? A bunch of Borg speaking mechanically with no passion or ambition in their voice?

So then the whole premise of the movie is flawed. They shouldn't have written there way into a spot where a Queen was necessary.

The Queen was charismatic. She had a bit of an ego about the superiority of the Borg and that made her conversations with Data interesting. And what about Picard? He would just save Data by killing all the idiot zombie drones around him instead of having that tense conversation with the Queen? What about the drama of Data tricking him into thinking she's seduced him and then revealing that he bluffed her?

I really didn't think any of those moments were particularly tense. It's all mostly an Aliens ripoff. This whole scene is pretty much Ripley going back after Newt.

As for the Queen, since when are the Borg charismatic? How does this improve them?

The Borg only being interested in technology and speaking as a group without an individual speaking on their behalf worked on TV, but concessions needed to be made for them to work as a cinematic villain and the change made for that purpose was the right one.

Or the other option is don't make a Borg movie.

It was not a shallow, mindless action movie. There was a lot of substance to the conversations between the crew and Cochrane about fate/destiny, hero worship/historical inaccuracy, and between the Queen/Data/Picard about the line between human and machine. The movie was definitely trying to have a lot more depth and substance to it than your average action movie. If anyone thinks it failed in the regard, fine, but dismissing it as a movie devoid of any intent beyond delivering cliche villains, action, and sex appeal is just selling it short just to be spiteful.

Making the Borg into zombie vampires was really a bad move and made an interesting enemy into a cliche. Its really hard to get passed that. And the fact that so much established Trek need to be retconned to make it work is just awful.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I'm so sick of hearing about how First Contact "ruined" the Borg. How could this movie possibly work without the Queen? Data would just sit in that machine and have his conversation with a bunch of simultaneous echoing voices like the crew would on the show? A bunch of Borg speaking mechanically with no passion or ambition in their voice?

I had read in an earlier draft Lily was to be assimilated and be like Locutus. I had no problem with the introduction of the Queen but she should have behaved more like Locutus and less like Seska.

What about the drama of Data tricking him into thinking she's seduced him and then revealing that he bluffed her?

I thought that was just a silly subplot.

The Borg only being interested in technology and speaking as a group without an individual speaking on their behalf worked on TV, but concessions needed to be made for them to work as a cinematic villain and the change made for that purpose was the right one.

But in the process of doing this the writers took away one of the things that made the Borg so interesting and compelling to begin with. I didn't care for the Queen spouting riddles to Data's questions. I didn't care for her slinking around like Catwoman. I didn't care for her behaving like an emotionally volatile scorned villianess. And for as often as people criticize BoBW's "sleep" resolution to the Borg threat I thought the idea that the Borg threat is resolved in FC by the Queen being destroyed and all the drones self-destruct was the weak one of the two.

Also I really didn't care for how the drone "extras" lurched like mindless zombies. If you go back to "Q Who?" and BoBW the extras had a spark in their eyes and you could just tell a collective intelligence was in those expressions.

 

[Aike]

First Contact gets right into it: The Borg are attacking! Within 5 minutes they are defeated but a smaller craft escape and travels back in time, we're then told they will assimilate earth before First Contact. Then the pace slows down and we move into explaining earth's history and start to provide character develpment elements. When the story is told, they just part way back exactly where they started.

I disagree. The opening sells the story in an excellent way. Anyone gets that Picard hates the Borg and that is the main focus of the movie. This movie, together with XI, is without any doubt the best movie for a non-Trekkie.

 

[JohanKoch]

I disagree. The opening sells the story in an excellent way. Anyone gets that Picard hates the Borg and that is the main focus of the movie. This movie, together with XI, is without any doubt the best movie for a non-Trekkie.

Absolutely. The last thing this movie needed was more exposition at the start. Would people prefer a wedding sequence? More goofing around on the holodeck? A diplomatic reception for "funny" aliens? In-jokes only the hard-core Trekkie cares about? Give me a break.

Even a non-fan, from the first few minutes, would get all the information they need (Picard's history with the Borg, the Borg as unrelenting unstoppable force, etc.). Then we are quickly brought back to the 21st century for the core of the story to start.

I do have my problems with the film. I don't think Frakes does a good job with the action sequences. Most of the "crew-vs-Borg" stuff, running around in the corridors of the Enterprise, was not very exciting (and looked a little cheap). The zero-G saucer battle probably sounded a whole lot more exciting on the page then it did on screen.

But, overall First Contact is still one of my favourite Trek films, second only to Khan, and maybe tied with the latest film.

 

[flemm]

Yes, it is. More later when I get the chance

Actually, "great" in the strong sense is probably a stretch (as it would be for all the Trek films), but it is an excellent Star Trek film, its only serious competition for best-ever being TWOK.

 

[Da'an]

I never liked the Borg until I saw First Contact. I think it was the black leotard costumes with plastic tubes that just looked cheap and tacky. Then First Contact came out and showed the Borg as they should have looked all along, and I became a fan.

I never really gave any thought to the concept of there being a Queen and how is altered the nature of the Borg, most likely (as I said) because I was never interested in them at the start.

However a line from a Voyager episode still grates, when the Queen says to Seven about how the collective is made of millions of voices and is superior to Captain Janeway's "one voice". The collective may be millions of voices, sweetheart, but it's still only one opinion.

 

[Anticitizen]

First Contact is the worst TNG movie...

...except for the other three

 

[Trek Survivor]

And before you go look for Klingon Mercenary for hire, let me explain. Any good movie has to have a slow pace entry for providing points of reference and present key details of character that are important to the plot then give a hook,

No, "any good movie" does not. Stop putting forth your preference as seemingly the "CORRECT" way.

"Slow pace entry" - man, Hollywood would kick you out so fast...

 

[flemm]

What about the drama of Data tricking him into thinking she's seduced him and then revealing that he bluffed her?

I thought that was just a silly subplot.

I think there was much more to it than that. The focus isn't really on the bluff, but on the choice. Data has spent his entire existence attempting to become more fully human. In First Contact, he is faced with a choice between the more sensual aspect of human experience (that the Queen has provided) and the more spiritual aspects (loyalty/friendship).

What more difficult choice could there possibly be for someone with Data's imperative to become more fully human? He chooses loyalty and friendship in an instant (of course we know the Borg will not triumph), and yet also he hesitates for "an eternity." Faced with that choice, who wouldn't have a hard time choosing?

The Borg Queen is most important for the story arc she provides for Data.

 

[flemm]

It was not a shallow, mindless action movie.

Certainly not

It is an entertaining movie that balances action with whimsical scenes on Earth. However, that does not make it shallow.

First Contact is about what it means to be human in the most extreme circumstances: faced with a ruthless enemy (Picard), or a momentous historical event (Cochrane). Those are the two main story arcs, but there are others woven in. There is Data's choice between the sensual and the spiritual that I descibe in my previous post above. And there is Worf, whose confrontation with Picard allows the film to deal further with the nature of courage. Courage not only to face the enemy in battle (as Worf certainly does), but to admit when retreat is the best option (as Picard is unable to do at first). The courage to stand up to the scorn of a charismatic leader (as Worf is forced to do), and to forgive (as Worf eventually does).

If you had to sum all this up, it would be difficult to do so without saying that First Contact asks that fundamental question: What does it mean to be human? This is the question that all Star Trek obsessively asks, in one way or another, and so that is why First Contact is an excellent Star Trek movie. The fact that we can also just watch it as an entertaining, flashy, slam-bang shoot 'em up, or whatever, is not a bad thing

 

[CaptainStoner]

Love or hate FC, the fact that those 5 or 6 actors who played the Borg drones in the film would bust into barbershop harmony is beyond hilarious. It's even funnier than hiding Nimoy's bicycle.