First Contact isn't a great movie

[trevanian]

Got to disagree with everything here. Simply First Contact is one of the best reviewed films of the series and had a very strong box office. Sure, not everybody loved it but you can never please everybody. Overall it pleased a large number of trek fans and also reached a decent number of casual and non-fans. It is also my favorite of all ten films.
I don't see why we would need to see more of these 21st century post nuke horrors. We know there was a war and we're in the aftermath of it now. We see what is needed for the story.
I think Stewarts ahab turn was one of the best parts of the film and I also liked how they broke up the tension at times with the lighter B story on the planet with cochrane. The two story's came together perfectly for the climax.

Also a large portion of the effects work in this movie was digital, not models.

Get back to me after you've sold a 12,000 word article on the film's effects. Not that much digital, and that was the weak stuff for me.

As for the rest, well, we seem to disagree. Agreed?

I have never sold any articles and I don't write about visual effects.
I am however a professional digital artist and animator.
Back when I was in college we had a guest lecture by a couple of artists from ILM who worked on First Contact and had the chance to ask them questions about how things were done on that film.
Yes, there are some physical models in the film but there is also a large amount of cg work in the movie. If you listen to Frakes commentary and the Moore and Braga commentary they both will confirm this as well.

I DO write about visual effects, and wrote the CINEFEX coverage on FC. It IS principally a miniature-driven show with respct to vfx, with CG used mostly -- not entirely -- to flesh things out and for seaming stuff over.

If you have checked through many of the commentaries, both text and audio, there are errors and miscomments galore. Just an FYI

 

[noknowes]

And before you go look for Klingon Mercenary for hire, let me explain. Any good movie has to have a slow pace entry for providing points of reference and present key details of character that are important to the plot then give a hook, something that makes you wonder what would happen that you don't really what happens and builds pace as it go up to a plot twist and a more action intensive ending, and finally give you finality for the characters.

First Contact gets right into it: The Borg are attacking! Within 5 minutes they are defeated but a smaller craft escape and travels back in time, we're then told they will assimilate earth before First Contact. Then the pace slows down and we move into explaining earth's history and start to provide character develpment elements. When the story is told, they just part way back exactly where they started.

The movie is done backward. It requires you to know who all of the characters are, who the Borg are... And then it sell you the punch! Even if until STXI Trek movie have mostly interested trekkies, all movies still respected this "standard" cinematographic format and non-initiate could still somehow follow and enjoy the story.

On top of that, this is a "reset" type story where nothing happens at all. The crew did live some nice experience, grew from hit as characters and problably have hints of themselves in the history book but for the universe itself, nothing happend. The past remains has it always has been.

Sure, as fan of the Trek universe and all of these characters specifically, we're hyped! We're given so much cerebral food filled with spooky even creepy moments. Overall, First Contact is an extraordinary 2-part TNG episode...but not a great movie.

Any thoughts?

This film robbed me.
i was expecting a sustained space battle but got blink and you miss it battle.
it was awful
i was really angry.

the dish scene was too long
not long enough star battles.
story was stupid too.

why do borg need to come to earth to go back in time??

picard was embarrasing
with his out burst..make them pay?

 

[Da'an]

First Contact gets right into it: The Borg are attacking! Within 5 minutes they are defeated but a smaller craft escape and travels back in time, we're then told they will assimilate earth before First Contact. Then the pace slows down and we move into explaining earth's history and start to provide character develpment elements. When the story is told, they just part way back exactly where they started.

The movie is done backward. It requires you to know who all of the characters are, who the Borg are... And then it sell you the punch! Even if until STXI Trek movie have mostly interested trekkies, all movies still respected this "standard" cinematographic format and non-initiate could still somehow follow and enjoy the story.

Wasn't it the same with the Bugs in Starship Troopers?

 

[Gary Sebben]

My biggest beef with this movie, other than Picard swinging from the ceiling and Vulcan's noticing a warp sig but not three quantum torpedoes, is the change in the Borg.

The Borg queen is so silly. It robs the collective of its uniqueness. So, they're just bees? Feh. And the whole thing about assimilating people and not tech. I mean, tech was their original and only goal. In fact, going back in time to stop earth from getting tech is totally opposite of their goals - which is to get more of other people's tech!

So, Borg Queen = bad
Borg Instant Assimilation Vampires = dumb retcon

Bad movie.

 

[zenfakor]

Well you know what they say opinions are like Klingons, everyones killed one.
I like First Contact.

 

[Jolantru]

FC is the best of the TNG films, but that's not saying much. Still I'd probably give the film a B-, it's not that bad. But it's nowhere near as good as TWOK or the new movie.

The biggest problem is the TNG crew, just weren't very interesting characters. Data and Picard are really the only ones we care about.

Centering the story around Zephram Cochran was also stupid. And to turn Lilly from this kick ass broad into someone that follows Jean-Luc around saying, "watch your cabose Dix," showed really poor writing.

I don't want to bash the film too much because I do enjoy it. It's just that the movie is often highly overrated. I've heard some call this the best Trek film of them all, and it's not even close to that.

 

[RyuRoots]

I've heard some call this the best Trek film of them all, and it's not even close to that.

We're talking about FC, not TWOK

But I kid, I kid.

 

[Joker]

This film robbed me.

God robbed you in the department upstairs.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I liked FC. ^^

 

[Gary Sebben]

God robbed you in the department upstairs.

Good personal attack. Hope it made you feel better about whatever was bothering you that was probably unrelated to Trek.

 

[dave_R_treker]

And before you go look for Klingon Mercenary for hire, let me explain. Any good movie has to have a slow pace entry for providing points of reference and present key details of character that are important to the plot then give a hook, something that makes you wonder what would happen that you don't really what happens and builds pace as it go up to a plot twist and a more action intensive ending, and finally give you finality for the characters.

First Contact gets right into it: The Borg are attacking! Within 5 minutes they are defeated but a smaller craft escape and travels back in time, we're then told they will assimilate earth before First Contact. Then the pace slows down and we move into explaining earth's history and start to provide character develpment elements. When the story is told, they just part way back exactly where they started.

The movie is done backward. It requires you to know who all of the characters are, who the Borg are... And then it sell you the punch! Even if until STXI Trek movie have mostly interested trekkies, all movies still respected this "standard" cinematographic format and non-initiate could still somehow follow and enjoy the story.

On top of that, this is a "reset" type story where nothing happens at all. The crew did live some nice experience, grew from hit as characters and problably have hints of themselves in the history book but for the universe itself, nothing happend. The past remains has it always has been.

Sure, as fan of the Trek universe and all of these characters specifically, we're hyped! We're given so much cerebral food filled with spooky even creepy moments. Overall, First Contact is an extraordinary 2-part TNG episode...but not a great movie.

Any thoughts?

So I'm guessing you also think XI isn't a great movie cause of the first 10 minutes.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Its a bad movie cause it ruined the Borg..absolutely ruined them...took away the best part of their threat (you can't negotiate with them..they will keep coming and keep coming) and gave them ONE voice....Bad bad bad writing which ruined a great concept...

that is why, over time, First Contact just doesn't hold up. Thanks to this movie, the borg became just another DORKY star trek race that you can sit down with and have nice little talks with over some tea....


Rob

 

[Anticitizen]

In fact, going back in time to stop earth from getting tech is totally opposite of their goals - which is to get more of other people's tech!

You know, that's a good point.

 

[JTK2099]

If you don't like movies that open with a bang then don't watch a James Bond or Indiana Jones movie. By the OP's estimation, they would all be bad films.

 

[Balrog]

I liked FC, but it's not without its flaws. I think it's a movie that starts in the middle and has a tacked on ending.

We get no exposition of this new Borg attack, new Enterprise, nothing. We are thrown into the middle of the movie. What is interesting is that the Enterprise is then sent to the Neutral Zone for no reason that pushes the story forward, and entire area of the film that could have been used to better explain the opening is lost.

We are also treated to a Picard that has more in common with the ham-handed comparison to Capt. Ahab. It was clunky, and did not fit Picard's character; He dealt with these issues with Hugh in "I, Borg". The whole thing felt forced.

The Borg Queen was really a retcon that didn't really work very well. No matter how much they tried, it didn't fit with the Borg we knew before this movie. But Voyager played her up so much it's no biggy now. And it did have a 'Kewl' factor that did work in the movie.

I know the movie was done on a budget, and it shows at times. What Berman and co. failed to realize was what works on the small screen doesn't work on the big screen. A lot of the sets looked cheesy. And some of the cinematography looked flat and stilted. Given how little NEM looked from FC, I don't place blame on the director - it's the TV style production values of the producers.

The ending seemed tacked on. Big moment with the Vulcans - cool. But then the Enterprise miraculously discovers how to reinvent the time tunnel to get back, and all is reset with the world. Ooby-Dooby plays and it ends more like Star Trek V. It's rushed, and not done well either.

But the heart of the movie is good. And the action sequences are fun, both in space and on the ship. I also thought the comedy with Cochrane was done just right too. All in all, a good movie for Star Trek.

 

[Creedence]

IXI didn't bother to introduce Vulcan, the relationship between Vulcans and Romulans to appreciate the undercurrent between Nero & Spock...

I did not feel it was necessary. Vulcans are established early in the film as our allies and Nero is clearly labeled the "Bad Guy" before the opening titles. Moreover, it is illustrated why Nero hates Spock so much. Establishing that Vulcans and Romulans share common anscestry may have helped the OMG factor of destroying Vulcan but it would have bogged down the pacing - which is excellent as is.

Is it a little unsettling that Vulcan is gone, but the Vulcans would be the first to point out that mourning its loss is illogical. I would think that such a devastating occurance will push Starfleet to actively pursue advancing technology and being a little more bad-ass in general. If, in this newly established continuum, Q takes Picard and crew to meet the Borg, things may have a different outcome.

I welcome a more militaristic starfleet.

 

[Hober Mallow]

To me, First Contact is everything Star Trek shouldn't be -- a mindless, flashy, slam-bang shoot-em up in space with every b-movie cliche they could throw in.

Like with Generations, it seemed like they just wrote a laundry list of what they wanted in the movie then built a story around that rather than have an interesting story to tell in the first place. (Borg! Time travel! Dixon Hill! The Doctor from Voyager! Lifeboats! The Enterprise E! Zephram Cochrane! First contact with the Vulcans! Barclay! A sexy Borg Queen!)

Anbd as has already been said, they took an at least somewhat interesting villain and utterly ruined them. The Borg were supposed to be a collective, with no individual voice speaking for them. Instead, in the best b-movie tradition, they make them a "hive" with a "queen." Instead of the Borg not interested in human beings, only technology, individuals are now all of a sudden "relevent" and are individually "assimilated." Evidently, the writers couldn't handle concepts that haven't been done to death in a million low budget "sci-fi" movie. The writers couldn't handle SF, so they reduce Trek to "sci-fi."

First Contact is crap.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I'm so sick of hearing about how First Contact "ruined" the Borg. How could this movie possibly work without the Queen? Data would just sit in that machine and have his conversation with a bunch of simultaneous echoing voices like the crew would on the show? A bunch of Borg speaking mechanically with no passion or ambition in their voice?

The Queen was charismatic. She had a bit of an ego about the superiority of the Borg and that made her conversations with Data interesting. And what about Picard? He would just save Data by killing all the idiot zombie drones around him instead of having that tense conversation with the Queen? What about the drama of Data tricking him into thinking she's seduced him and then revealing that he bluffed her? The Borg only being interested in technology and speaking as a group without an individual speaking on their behalf worked on TV, but concessions needed to be made for them to work as a cinematic villain and the change made for that purpose was the right one. And the technology idea isn't totally abandoned. It's implied that they assimilate humans to use the unique properties of each human (i.e. their brain) to enhance and become part of their technology.

It was not a shallow, mindless action movie. There was a lot of substance to the conversations between the crew and Cochrane about fate/destiny, hero worship/historical inaccuracy, and between the Queen/Data/Picard about the line between human and machine. The movie was definitely trying to have a lot more depth and substance to it than your average action movie. If anyone thinks it failed in the regard, fine, but dismissing it as a movie devoid of any intent beyond delivering cliche villains, action, and sex appeal is just selling it short just to be spiteful.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I'm so sick of hearing about how First Contact "ruined" the Borg. How could this movie possibly work without the Queen? Data would just sit in that machine and have his conversation with a bunch of simultaneous echoing voices like the crew would on the show? A bunch of Borg speaking mechanically with no passion or ambition in their voice?

That's what made the Borg scary -- their complete indifference. The fact that you were irrelevent and weren't worth wasting another Collective thought on. A sexy borg queen isn't scary. It's goofy.

 

[Balrog]

It's very true. The queen actually put a face on an antagonist whose most frightening quality was that it was faceless. Moore, Braga and Berman failed to realize thwey were taking away the best part of their villian by actually trying to define it.