First Contact incidental music

[Ar-Pharazon]

SyFy is airing FC right now, I was catching a few minutes of it. Seen it many times, but never noticed this.

The music playing when Worf enters the E-E bridge for the first time is the same piece that was played for the Klingon vs. V'Ger scene in TMP.

Not as blaring of course, more subtle, but the same.

 

[Argus Skyhawk]

It's the Klingon theme. We also heard it when Klingons showed up in Star Trek III and V. However, I didn't remember it being in TMP. Are you certain?

 

[DonIago]

It originated in TMP when the Klingons attack Vejur.

I believe different music was used in TSFS though, especially since that one had a different composer.

As with what become the TNG theme though, I feel it got overused.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I've seen FC more times than III or IV, so I'm a little surprised with myself that I didn't hear it before today.

Especially when that particular scene is one of the more memorable ones in FC. "Tough little ship".

 

[Bones2]

Yes.

Klingon Battle (from TMP): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfwMCnPYuOs

Red Alert (Klingon theme from 0:43): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miaOx3UrLA4

Both excellent cues. Jerry Goldsmith is probably my favourite film composer ever. The Klingon theme also appeared briefly in INS, when Worf smashed up a drone thingy (think it was the "definitely feeling aggressive tendancies" moment).

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I just popped the DVD in the computer and noticed it during the Defiant battle vs. the cube as well.

Can't believe I missed this, especially during the theater viewing.

 

[trevanian]

It's the Klingon theme. We also heard it when Klingons showed up in Star Trek III and V. However, I didn't remember it being in TMP. Are you certain?

No, Horner's klingon theme is arranged in a Goldsmith-esque fashion, but the SFS is NOT the klingon theme used in TMP and TFF and FC. Ron Jones DID use it in early TNG eps, though.

 

[RyanKCR]

The music used for the Klingonsc in SFS is very similar to the music Horner composed for Aliens.

 

[Hober Mallow]

The Klingon theme was used again during Worf's "aggressive tendencies" scene in Insurrection. It was used in all of Jerry Goldsmith's Trek films except for Nemesis.

Horner's Klingon theme in TSFS is nothing like Goldsmith's theme. It's not even close.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

it appears in another FC scene, when they have a good shot of Worf climbing a latter....

 

[FormerLurker]

snip

Horner's Klingon theme in TSFS is nothing like Goldsmith's theme. It's not even close.

This isn't as true as you would like it to be. While the particulars of the melody are different, the overall martial arrangement is similar enough to be considered "Inspired by".

 

[JarodRussell]

The music used for the Klingonsc in SFS is very similar to the music Horner composed for Aliens.

Yeah that's because TSFS is from 1984, and Aliens is from 1986.

I can't believe how one could have missed the music playing for Worf being the Klingon theme from TMP and TFF. I mean it's so iconic, and not subtle in any way, especially not during the battle. And that the whole First Contact theme (or rather Goldsmith's "Next Generation theme") is very similar to the Final Frontier theme.

 

[trevanian]

The music used for the Klingonsc in SFS is very similar to the music Horner composed for Aliens.

Yeah that's because TSFS is from 1984, and Aliens is from 1986.

I can't believe how one could have missed the music playing for Worf being the Klingon theme from TMP and TFF. I mean it's so iconic, and not subtle in any way, especially not during the battle. And that the whole First Contact theme (or rather Goldsmith's "Next Generation theme") is very similar to the Final Frontier theme.

It ain't a matter of timing; ALL of Horner's stuff sounds the same. COMMANDO and 48HRS and GORKYPARK are all the same basic rip-off-TUBULAR BELLS-number; action in KHAN and WOLFEN and ALIENS are the same prettymuch; he steals the same classical piece used in 2001 for the end of ALIENS, a remote assassination in PATRIOT GAMES, and a few other flicks.

And in identifying the Goldsmith stuff, it is all his TMP theme; different and worse orchestration, but it is the same piece.

 

[RyanKCR]

The music used for the Klingonsc in SFS is very similar to the music Horner composed for Aliens.

Yeah that's because TSFS is from 1984, and Aliens is from 1986.

I can't believe how one could have missed the music playing for Worf being the Klingon theme from TMP and TFF. I mean it's so iconic, and not subtle in any way, especially not during the battle. And that the whole First Contact theme (or rather Goldsmith's "Next Generation theme") is very similar to the Final Frontier theme.

It ain't a matter of timing; ALL of Horner's stuff sounds the same. COMMANDO and 48HRS and GORKYPARK are all the same basic rip-off-TUBULAR BELLS-number; action in KHAN and WOLFEN and ALIENS are the same prettymuch; he steals the same classical piece used in 2001 for the end of ALIENS, a remote assassination in PATRIOT GAMES, and a few other flicks.

And in identifying the Goldsmith stuff, it is all his TMP theme; different and worse orchestration, but it is the same piece.

If you listen to the music that occurs between the first two shots by the Reliant when Spock and Kirk were discussing the damage from the first shot, it is the same as a the middle section of Shad's Pursuit from Battle Beyond the Stars (Horner's first movie.) It is also similar to something he then did in Cocoon.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Used when the Klingons battled V'ger in ST: TMP.

Used in TFF in a cue (can't recall which at the moment), and the end credits.

Used in FC during that scene as described, used in battle while Worf was in command of the Defiant, used when Picard, Data and Worf are battling Borg in the ship, used during the sensor dish array sequence, used when Worf and Picard have a moment on the Bridge.

Also in I -- but I forget where at the moment. Maybe after Worf bashed one of the taggers and made some commented about having tendancies, or somerhing like that.

I seem to recall it also popped up in N.


It was also used in at least two episodes of TNG.

 

[Basil]

Yeah that's because TSFS is from 1984, and Aliens is from 1986.

I can't believe how one could have missed the music playing for Worf being the Klingon theme from TMP and TFF. I mean it's so iconic, and not subtle in any way, especially not during the battle. And that the whole First Contact theme (or rather Goldsmith's "Next Generation theme") is very similar to the Final Frontier theme.

It ain't a matter of timing; ALL of Horner's stuff sounds the same. COMMANDO and 48HRS and GORKYPARK are all the same basic rip-off-TUBULAR BELLS-number; action in KHAN and WOLFEN and ALIENS are the same prettymuch; he steals the same classical piece used in 2001 for the end of ALIENS, a remote assassination in PATRIOT GAMES, and a few other flicks.

And in identifying the Goldsmith stuff, it is all his TMP theme; different and worse orchestration, but it is the same piece.

If you listen to the music that occurs between the first two shots by the Reliant when Spock and Kirk were discussing the damage from the first shot, it is the same as a the middle section of Shad's Pursuit from Battle Beyond the Stars (Horner's first movie.) It is also similar to something he then did in Cocoon.

All contemporary film composers have their motifs or borrow from other composers, to varying degrees, depending on their individual predilections; older composers did as well, but the better ones, like Dimitri Tiomkin and Miklos Rosza just seemed better at it.

Horner gets picked on so much because he's not as nimble about recycling, but compare Goldsmith's Klingon theme to the first few notes in the earlier "The Wind and the Lion."

 

[22 Stars]

Horner borrows from his own library extensively for Avatar as well. Glory and Titanic themese are lifted quite generously.... As I recall, Enterprise leaving spacedock is heard almost note for note when Titanic leaves drydock as well.

 

[DonIago]

^Having listened to both pretty extensively, IMO you're not recalling correctly...not to say that Horner doesn't borrow from himself a lot of the time, but not in that case.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Yeah, I'm not hearing it either.


Horner EARNED the picking on he got, this time, however -- and it reflects very poorly upon him, I might ad, for the "Avatar" lifts. He was composing the score, soley with no other scoring projects, for over a year, and in his own words in an interview, was spending 15 hours a day working on the score. Over a year is more than enough time to do something completely fresh and original, and yet he stole from himself again & again & again & again in the score.

I hate to bang on someone who's obviously a talented individule and has composed some amazing scores, but ... what ever hiring price is (in Goldsmith's later years, he demanded and got $1 million for each film, for example), but he needs to chop off about 25% or more of it since he's not putting real effort into the ful score, and using material he was already paid for to compose.

Ad ontop of that the material he wrote that he is lifting, is own by various other studios, he could have a heck of a lwsuit on his hands should he ever fall out of their good graces.

 

[Doug Otte]

Used in TFF in a cue (can't recall which at the moment), and the end credits.

I believe the first cue was when we first saw the BoP, and the captain was target-shooting the Earth probe.

Doug