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Firing phasers/torpedos

Really, in TNG, every small adversary vessel ends up being under the saucer of the E-D when there's a rendezvous or a faceoff. I'm beginning to think that this is deliberate Starfleet tactics: the big ship chooses her position so that the bulk of the saucer blocks the enemy from firing at the bridge, whereas the forward torpedo tubes point straight at the enemy...

Yeah, but don't forget that the BOP circled around and got some shots off at the back of the E-D (and even missed a couple of shots at point-blank, how silly is that? :rolleyes:) So going after the bridge on subsequent shots would have been a valid tactic even if they were bad enough to miss ;)

A few thoughts on...
"One-way" shields:
- if they are one-way, how does a ship get sensor information if no energy can get in?
- can the ship selectively open a frequency-range for receiving senor information? And if so, how can the ship prevent enemy counter-fire from analyzing sensor information? Use passive sensors only? And if only passive, what useful frequency range could there be and why couldn't the enemy keep the ship blind with a constantly pointed beam matched to the sensor windows?

"Propeller-timed method"/rotating shield frequency shields:
- how do you prevent enemy counter-fire from matching your "open" shield frequency for outgoing weapons?
- how large is the window of frequencies that you are protected and unprotected? What if the enemy ship tries the entire spectrum and finds the holes and immediately fires?
 
Just my 2 cents: Isn't it in one of the tech manuals how the shields work? That by utilizing transporter-like technology that the pattern of the hardest known substance is called up and materialized as a layer surrounding the ship but as energy only. And that layer is continously replenished.

Mr. Scott's guide to the Enterprise. Yeah, that's always been--IMO--one of the most plausible explanations about shields to date, especially since it gives a nice explanation for why the shields don't always have visible twinkling bubbles even though they're active. If you take "shields" and "deflectors" being separate systems, this works out pretty nicely even in the 24th century.
 
^^ I have that tech manual somewhere in my 'room of stuff'. I will look for it and read up on it. I probably haven't touched that thing in years.

Rob
 
Yeah, but don't forget that the BOP circled around and got some shots off at the back of the E-D (and even missed a couple of shots at point-blank, how silly is that? :rolleyes:) So going after the bridge on subsequent shots would have been a valid tactic even if they were bad enough to miss ;)

True enough. But there we can speculate that Riker did his damnedest to keep the bridge protected through maneuvering. Or, if LaForge figured out the shield-penetrating trick and managed to get the shields working, Riker would have started to play the classic game of keeping a strong shield turned at the enemy while weakened ones replenish. The E-D was free to maneuver, after all - no indication was given of her propulsion failing.

But there in turn we can speculate that the Klingon fire was gradually having an effect on Riker's ability to maneuver and fire back - meaning that an attack against the bridge was finally becoming feasible.

Although continuing from there, it sounds reasonable to speculate that a hit against the bridge would be irrelevant at that point of the game. The E-D would already be on full battle alert, meaning a secondary command center would be ready to take over at the already anticipated loss of the primary one. The most the Twisted Sisters could achieve would be killing Riker, Worf and Data - a potentially great loss to the E-D, but one Starfleet would deem acceptable because obviously Starfleet doctrine did not call for dispersing these top officers to various backup command centers.

A few thoughts on "One-way" shields:
- if they are one-way, how does a ship get sensor information if no energy can get in?
- can the ship selectively open a frequency-range for receiving senor information? And if so, how can the ship prevent enemy counter-fire from analyzing sensor information?

Here I'd argue that sensors indeed work through windows in the shields, and that these windows are very, very narrow. It takes a lot of skill and effort to squeeze a transporter beam through them ("The Wounded"). It's probably possible to push a very weak phaser beam through as well, if the enemy stays immobile and predictable long enough in the style of that TNG episode - but large energies in a short period of time are still unviable. It would be like trying to send an invading horde of swordsmen through a revolving door...

Sensor information hitting you can probably be readily analyzed - our heroes and villains can e.g. always tell they are being targeted, as opposed to merely being generically scanned. But returning some hostile energies with the same specs will probably gain the enemy very little. The complex sensor window will probably have closed (rotated forth) so that not even enemy sensor energies can properly penetrate, let alone weapons energies. But in general I'd argue that the sensor window is a "revolving door" or a "maze", not a straight hole through the shields.

OTOH, to get weapons-level energies through, one would have to open a straight hole. Probably not a problem in the counter-fire sense if you fire unpredictably from a long phaser strip - but a bigger problem if you always fire from that single spot beneath your saucer! Which is why I think there has to be this one-way shield thing at play there.

What if the enemy ship tries the entire spectrum and finds the holes and immediately fires?

I guess that's prohibitively difficult, too much to ask from the hardware. A bit like trying to storm a fortress by pressing all the possible combinations on the code lock of the portcullis at once. Or breaking into a car by sending all possible remote key signals at once. Possible in theory, but not in practice - especially as the target will keep moving, the frequencies shifting.

Mr. Scott's guide to the Enterprise.

...Which also claims that one can open holes in the shields for transporters, a big dramatic no-no.

Perhaps the Mr Scott's explanation for skintight shields is how the Defiant's ablative armor works? I mean, the "ablative" part heavily suggests there's a substance of some sort involved, but the fact that nothing is ever seen ablating away, at least not permanently, suggests a remote replenishment mechanism.

It's more plausible for the 24th century where transporter-based technologies are quite refined than for the 23rd where replicators don't yet seem to exist...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Perhaps the ablative coating, used by the Defiant, is a sort of energy ablative coating. It sounds reasonable to assume that a lesser or close to the same level of energy, being displaced from that particular section, would help to lessen the effects of the directed energy at the ship.
 
Maybe it uses the ablative case, and inflects any disruptor beam that strikes it.

Btw, Timo, I like the revolving door analogy even better than the propeller one.
 
...But it doesn't solve all the problems. You can use a revolving door to deploy your spies (sensor signals), receive enemy informants (data from the outside) and stop hordes of enemy men-at-arms (enemy fire) - but you can't use it to deploy your own horde of men-at-arms. For that, you need one of the other analogies:

-A separate portcullis that's opened whenever your troops want to make a sally (a clear if transient hole in the shields)
-A sloping wall down which your troops can slide to their attack but the enemy troops can't climb in the opposite direction (one-way shields)
-A combination: part of the wall becomes a slide for part of the time...

Timo Saloniemi
 
An idea on the Defiant's ablative armor. Maybe the hull panels (plates) have extra layers of outer panels that are sacrificed to weapons fire. And each panel has a associated replicator that replaces the expended outer panels. Sort of a self-healing hull. And nearby replicators can take over if a replicator is damaged or destroyed.
 
...But it doesn't solve all the problems. You can use a revolving door to deploy your spies (sensor signals), receive enemy informants (data from the outside) and stop hordes of enemy men-at-arms (enemy fire) - but you can't use it to deploy your own horde of men-at-arms. For that, you need one of the other analogies:

-A separate portcullis that's opened whenever your troops want to make a sally (a clear if transient hole in the shields)
-A sloping wall down which your troops can slide to their attack but the enemy troops can't climb in the opposite direction (one-way shields)
-A combination: part of the wall becomes a slide for part of the time...

Timo Saloniemi
Not necessarily. There's nothing that says a phaser (or a transporter, or anything) has to be a continuous beam, when it could just as easily be a million microsecond bursts, timed to work with the revolving door. Better yet, the revolving door need not always be on (only when sensor scans, transporters, or phasers are operating), negating the danger that an enemy could easily determine the schedule and put his own fire through the door, unless he can determine ahead of time when you're going to fire (a normal tactical, but hardly foolproof, analysis).
 
Timo - All valid points except for one thing - were the "Twisted Sisters" (I like that name, takes me back to the '80's) that inpatient that they couldn't navigate around to the E-D's bow, decloak in front of the ship and then fire on the bridge? That solves the problem right there. Of course there is a backup on the Battle Bridge, but it takes time to transfer control to it. Those precious minutes/seconds would allow the Twisted Sisters to wreak havoc on the E-D's engineering sections. That is why I think it was just poor tactics.

The whole point of cloaking is to sneak up on the enemy (presumably a more powerful ship) and give it a sucker punch before the other ship can strike. After all, Chang did a good job of knocking the Enterprise around with a measly little bird-of-prey before the Uhura/Spock/McCoy's torpedo took out his "talipipe."

Just a different way of looking at it I guess. YMMV.
 
...But it doesn't solve all the problems. You can use a revolving door to deploy your spies (sensor signals), receive enemy informants (data from the outside) and stop hordes of enemy men-at-arms (enemy fire) - but you can't use it to deploy your own horde of men-at-arms. For that, you need one of the other analogies:

-A separate portcullis that's opened whenever your troops want to make a sally (a clear if transient hole in the shields)
-A sloping wall down which your troops can slide to their attack but the enemy troops can't climb in the opposite direction (one-way shields)
-A combination: part of the wall becomes a slide for part of the time...

Timo Saloniemi
Not necessarily. There's nothing that says a phaser (or a transporter, or anything) has to be a continuous beam, when it could just as easily be a million microsecond bursts, timed to work with the revolving door. Better yet, the revolving door need not always be on (only when sensor scans, transporters, or phasers are operating), negating the danger that an enemy could easily determine the schedule and put his own fire through the door, unless he can determine ahead of time when you're going to fire (a normal tactical, but hardly foolproof, analysis).

Dammit! Everytime I think I have my mind around it, something confuses it again!!!..LOL...great post!

Rob
 
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