Finale of DS9 ( spoiler )

[Can]

This is my critic about finale of DS9. Feel free to comment...

I think while some story character arcs were finished just fine someof them just blew. For example :

Dominion War arc was finished just fine. Maybe it might be done better with a more flashy way but the way they paved towards its finale in last ten episodes was OK. All last episodes concerning Dominion was continious , linked each other and consistent. At the end Odo made ultimate blackmail to Founder but without words maybe. "Either surrender or Great Link perishes...." So for Dominion it was inevitable to surrender. I know some of you would like to see a decisive final battle a boss level game or something but for me Star Trek was never about war. It was about hope , to be better , idealistic , to solve problems without confrontation etc. Finale of DS9 in Dominion story arc gave all these to us.

At the other hand I think spiritual war aspect of DS9 went on just too long , longer than necesssary and it went downhill. The problem is I think the writers didn't know what to make about Prophets/Par Wraith storyline and adding Sisko/Dukat until last moment. So it seems they created this finale at last moment and it seemed hastily written just to close down this arc and conclude fate of Sisko.

Some character arcs were again finished just fine but a few of them sucked. My greatest dissapointments are about Sisko/Dukat finale and Jake. Final Sisko/Dukat confrontation lacked suspense , good writing and acting. Destroy the evil man and book and to be saved by higher beings and everything tuns back to normal...That was my complaint in "Sacrifice of Angels" also. Using "Deux de Machina" or last minute technobabble solutions takes edge and drama from a story after a fashion. Writing and acting also sucked in this story. Gul Dukat no longer seemed like formidabble , clever and sinister arc enemy we loved and disliked. Instead he got god complex with cliche lines and became ridiculous. Sisko became a higher being. Jake hardly mentioned etc...Lazy writing I suppose. ( Just look at Babylon 5 and see how excellently episodes written and linked to series finale and fate of main characters. In Babylon 5 final destiny of Capt. Sheridan , Cmdr. Sinclair was suberply laid out even before the series began )

Other endings of character arcs were just fine though. It wasn't a happy ending. It was not meant to be. It was just a sad farewell for everyone. Miles , Rom , Nog , Kira , Bashir , Dax , Worf , Odo , Quark , Garak all of them said goodbye to us and each other in a agreeable way. Flashbacks and sad music complated the picture.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

At the end Odo made ultimate blackmail to Founder but without words maybe. "Either surrender or Great Link perishes...."

Odo never did that. I was watching that scene carefully when it aired back in 1999 because I wanted to see if the DS9 writers would "betray" Star Trek once and for all by allowing the Feds to win a war via genocide. But Odo cured the Founder without any quid pro quo or genocidal threat. And then she was so grateful she decided to end the war.

Nah, doesn't wash. That requires the Founder to be completely out of character. She just ordered the extermination of millions of Cardassians but suddenly she's a marshmallow?!? The writers dodged the bullet of totally betraying Star Trek ideals but only through some extremely iffy writing.

It was about hope , to be better , idealistic , to solve problems without confrontation etc. Finale of DS9 in Dominion story arc gave all these to us.

Huh? You are under the impression that the Feds won a war via genocide. If that had been true, DS9 would deserve all the accusations tossed at it for betraying Star Trek, not being real Star Trek, etc. The way Odo won the war was highly improbable but if he'd done it the more probable way, he'd be a war criminal!

The DS9 ending was hopeful and happy, sure. It was also bullshit. I guess they wrote themselves into a corner and didn't know how to get out.

I could tell early in S7 that the religious plotline was headed for a cliff. The seeds of its destruction were sown long before the finale.

The thing that got me was the lack of crossover between the major plotarc (Sisko vs Dukat, the "religious" plotline) and the minor plotarc (the Dominion War). Sisko's personal journey has to be the major arc because he's the main character. The resolution of the minor plotarc should have depended on the resolution of the major one: when Sisko wins his spiritual war, the Feds win their war, too.

The real problem with Sisko's spiritual journey was that it was too easy. He never really paid for that ass-save the Prophets gave him in Sacrifice of Angels. He was already willing to sacrifice his life, so the sacrifice the Prophets asked should have been MORE. And his position in Starfleet was never threatened by his religious beliefs. It would have been far more interesting if Starfleet had gotten suspicious of him palling around with wormhole aliens with uncertain allegiances.

And Dukat...yeesh. That was really botched. They should have kept him the same sharp egotist he always was, overconfident to an insane degree. He might have allied himself with the pagh-wraiths on the assumption he could control them, and they weren't really dieties at all. Most of what happened could still have happened, but Dukat could have kept some of his dignity.

 

[Thrall]

Odo never did that. I was watching that scene carefully when it aired back in 1999 because I wanted to see if the DS9 writers would "betray" Star Trek once and for all by allowing the Feds to win a war via genocide. But Odo cured the Founder without any quid pro quo or genocidal threat. And then she was so grateful she decided to end the war.

Nah, doesn't wash. That requires the Founder to be completely out of character. She just ordered the extermination of millions of Cardassians but suddenly she's a marshmallow?!? The writers dodged the bullet of totally betraying Star Trek ideals but only through some extremely iffy writing.

Yeah, but you know how fanatical Founders are about their own kind. They'd kill every firstborn child in the universe for Odo if he just asked. For them the war was not so much about eliminating the Alpha Quadrant threat as it was about getting Odo back. She had even said as much to Weyun. Odo saved them from extinction. Until that point they had believed him to have been lost to them. Saving them from certain death proved that the Alpha Quadrant solids and their influence over Odo might not be as bad a thing as they thought it was. They didn't see it as a surrender. They saw it as a reprieve. The Founders are what in Dungeons and Dragons known as "Lawful Evil". They're murderous, racist fucks. But they DO have a strong sense of honor. As they proved by not letting Dukat wipe out Bajor. They help those that help them. And Odo knew that.

I could tell early in S7 that the religious plotline was headed for a cliff. The seeds of its destruction were sown long before the finale.

The thing that got me was the lack of crossover between the major plotarc (Sisko vs Dukat, the "religious" plotline) and the minor plotarc (the Dominion War). Sisko's personal journey has to be the major arc because he's the main character. The resolution of the minor plotarc should have depended on the resolution of the major one: when Sisko wins his spiritual war, the Feds win their war, too.

Meh. Now you're just being nitpicky.

The real problem with Sisko's spiritual journey was that it was too easy. He never really paid for that ass-save the Prophets gave him in Sacrifice of Angels. He was already willing to sacrifice his life, so the sacrifice the Prophets asked should have been MORE.

Jadzia's death was what they were talking about. Pretty big sacrifice I'd say. Not warning him about it in advance was so he could stop it was the price.

And his position in Starfleet was never threatened by his religious beliefs. It would have been far more interesting if Starfleet had gotten suspicious of him palling around with wormhole aliens with uncertain allegiances.

They addressed this in the show. Starfleet couldn't pull him out because then Bajor would never join The Federation. The main reason Bajor went along with the process was because The Feds sent their Emissary to them. So they just had to deal with it.

And Dukat...yeesh. That was really botched. They should have kept him the same sharp egotist he always was, overconfident to an insane degree. He might have allied himself with the pagh-wraiths on the assumption he could control them, and they weren't really dieties at all. Most of what happened could still have happened, but Dukat could have kept some of his dignity.

Then the biblical symbolism that was the show's main arc wouldn't have worked. Dukat represents The Devil/Anti-Christ. The enemy of all Christians(Bajorans). He always did. In order for him to fulfill his destiny he had to accept it. First, in order to gain revenge. Later as the full-fledged Anti-Christ, totally accepting of his position. I have to give the DS9 writers the props for having the balls to write an un-PC arc like this. Especially in a franchise known for it's anti-religious leanings.

His season 7 arc was the only way it could have ended for him. Eventually all morally questionable characters come to a point when they have all of their bullshit and bluster striped away and we seem them for what they really are. "Waltz" was that point. Both Garak and Quark were shown to be decent men who were just raised in bad situations and not totally irredemable. When given the chance to be truely, utterly evil and commit mass murder they said "NO!" Garak needed a little pushing but eventually he saw the light. When Dukat was given the choice, he said "YES!" again and again and again.

The fact that people have a problem with Dukat being true to his own evil nature is telling how well a Lucifer Marc Alimo actually played. Kira and Sisko are just being mean and vengeful. It's the Bajorans who really committed the war crimes. I'm not evil, I'm just a misguided bad boy who justs need a hug and good woman to love me. And that some weak willed people actually wanted to believe that crap, is just tragic. Because Dukat was so seductively charasmatic , even people in the real world were ready to defend him.

 

[sonak]

Largely agree with Temis and disagree with Thrall. Early DS9(and especially S4) Dukat and S7 Dukat are entirely different characters(This from my understanding reflects behind the scene differences in writers' interpretation of the character).

Dukat seemed to be originally conceived of as an anti-hero more than a villain, and by S4, with his "captain of freighter" arc, seemed to be setting him on the path to redemption for his past actions during the Occupation.

Even villainous again in S5, he at least had reasonable motivations, such as the return of his power and prestige.

Post-"Sacrifice of Angels" Dukat was a crappy one-not comic book villain character.

The pah-wraith vs. prophets, "angels" vs. "demons" themes were overtly judeo-christian for a star trek series. The battle between Dukat and Sisko in WYLB was a terrible ending for the characters and arc.


There was tons more potential with the characters of Dukat and the Prophets that could have been done.

 

[Photon]

Save the character-rememberance part, WYLB blew hard

Sisko should have been kept mortal and so Jake could have a father

Dukat should have been killed in a blaze of glory (not blaze of Hell)

Of course, Odo's offer anc the FC capitulation is pure bullcrap. Total cop out, when there should have been an S8 and perhaps S9. But of course, that would collide w/the uber-shitty ST:Voyager.

 

[anti-matter]

Sure it could have been done better...was it rushed, YES. I'm thankful it wasn't a bad ending...like some other series we have knowledge of.

...oh and I also thankful that the great Gul Dukat and Kai Winn sleeps with the par'raiths too.

 

[Ezri]

Have felt that the ending of DS9 did settle a number of issues with the show, the war was over the enemies of the federation are destroyed or killed. The characters moved on with their lives to be in a different area of development. Felt the ending of the show was prepping the development of a DS9 movie: something that the ending of other series never developed.

The ending of Enterprise gave so many spoilers that a movie is out of the question. The ending of Voyager, they got home and they did what when they got on Earth. The ending of TNG, ok, the movies have conflicted with that canon.

With the ending of DS9, it did leave the fans with a rich fantasy life to debate what could be the canon. That would be the best way to end the series, as that fantasy life does support role play, independent use of characters. True, I do use the character of Ezri Dax in post DS9 as an independent non-canon but it does not stop someone else to use that same character to be different then my fantasies.

It could be best not to settle a characters life after the ending of a series. Think this way with the ending of TOS and the rich level of people that want to play the character of James T Kirk. Out of all the characters within Star Trek, he is the most used character used with a fantasy. Maybe leaving his character wide open made him adaptable since the ending of the series up to the ending of the movies.

Sure, the ending of DS9 could have settled the life of Ezri Dax to a level of being dull. The characters could be displayed to a fine level to show what they were going to do past DS9 and showing their funeral too. Some way, that is way too much information that takes away the fantasy. If I understood what was going to happen to Ezri Dax till the day she died, I would not really care for the character.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I personally liked the ending and wouldn't change a thing. All the major characters had a direction, and I like the fact that it all didn't end in a very cliched 'happily ever after' manner - especially where Sisko was concerned.

 

[Ezri]

PKTrekGirl said:
I personally liked the ending and wouldn't change a thing. All the major characters had a direction, and I like the fact that it all didn't end in a very cliched 'happily ever after' manner - especially where Sisko was concerned.

We both have agreement with the ending. Having the ending of the series is a two part episode was the best choice to bring the series to an ending. The characters did have a nice advancement in their station in life, even Sisko too.

In my judgment, the ending did leave a great deal of development of the series ten or twenty years down the road. If there is going to be a DS9 movie, the years 2011 till 2015 would be the ideal years.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

"What You Leave Behind" had some wonderful moments at the end, but the finale suffered from wrapping everything up from the last seven years in the final two-hours, a very old school television approach. A sincere attempt was made to bookend the series with the Emissary plotline, but that really should have been the focus of the episode in the same way it was in the pilot. The Dominion War could have ended several episodes before hand, which would have allowed the writers to explore the ramifications of it in the last few episodes. The DW, at the end of the day, just fell flat with nothing gained or achieved other than the very surface of surviving a prolonged conflict. I still don't know what our characters, other than Nog and Sisko, really suffered or lost in this conflict. In the finale, the resolution to the war failed to bring our characters to a new place which was disappointing for the only Trek series that truly allowed its characters to change and grow as the series progressed.

Regardless, I'm glad that they still tried to push what Trek could do but I wish that they had blown the envelope instead of pushing it. Of course, I love the scene at the end with the "audience" leaving DS9 in juxtaposition to how the series started with the "audience" and Sisko arriving at the station.