Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITHIN*

[Nagisa Furukawa]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Blimey, the paranoia round here!

In light of Whistleblower and his/her ilk, can you blame us?

Some random person on a blog is comparable to an official BBC source?

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Blimey, the paranoia round here!

In light of Whistleblower and his/her ilk, can you blame us?

Some random person on a blog is comparable to an official BBC source?

No...

The suggestion of "paranoia" was levied because of questioning if it was Official BBC, because the poster didn't think to check the bottom of the Web Page

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

This is the first time I heard of the site. I didn't know jackshit about it, and decided to ask about its authenticity due to the fact that a lot of phonies have been on the rise lately, like Whistleblower and the copycats he/she inspired.

Okay, so there's copyright info on the site proving it's a BBC site. Be honest, do you read the copyright info of every site you visit? I don't, in fact the idea of checking for copyright info didn't even occur to me.

Yes, maybe we are being a bit too paranoid here lately. With legitimate reason.

 

[Mr Awe]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

In light of Whistleblower and his/her ilk, can you blame us?

Some random person on a blog is comparable to an official BBC source?

No...

The suggestion of "paranoia" was levied because of questioning if it was Official BBC, because the poster didn't think to check the bottom of the Web Page

Yeah, I don't always scroll down, so sue me!

But, no, nothing wrong at all enquiring about the authenticity.

ETA: What Wormhole said!

Mr Awe

 

[aridas sofia]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

I am just throwing this out there for all of you to shoot down, but what if the name of the doctor was revealed, and it was Walter Simeon? We know the human Simeon died, but that the GI that had been a reflection of him then took his form and persisted. We also know that somewhere (was it the Cartmel plan?) the Doctor is said to have originated as a 19th century human scientist that developed time travel and made his way to Gallifrey to become The Other. Could Simeon/GI be that guy? Or do you think it just a coincidence that Richard Grant played the Shalka Doctor?

I sorta think Hurt is a reconstruction of the part intended for Eccleston, and the real revelation is about the relation between the GI and the Doctor.

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

We also know that somewhere (was it the Cartmel plan?) the Doctor is said to have originated as a 19th century human scientist that developed time travel and made his way to Gallifrey to become The Other

It's a shit idea which is the best reason for it not to be true.

 

[aridas sofia]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Even if it is shit, isn't the notion that he is part human a recurrent idea? Help me here... I was a Tom Baker fan and only picked all this up again recently. I have some catching up to do.

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Even if it is shit, isn't the notion that he is part human a recurrent idea? Help me here... I was a Tom Baker fan and only picked all this up again recently. I have some catching up to do.

The idea* appears in the TV movie and is never mentioned again as far as I'm aware - it's certainly not a recurrent idea.




* and to be fair as originally written, he might have been a future human.

 

[Nagisa Furukawa]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

We also know that somewhere (was it the Cartmel plan?) the Doctor is said to have originated as a 19th century human scientist that developed time travel and made his way to Gallifrey to become The Other.

Nope, this is from the original novel, Human Nature that later became a Tennant story. Unlike that's Journal of Impossible Things, this is the plot of the stories that the teacher John Smith writes in the novel instead.

What's most interesting is that in his notes (that used to be online before the BBC took down their eBooks), Paul Cornell says that these sections were written by a friend of his... Steven Moffat.

Whether this will actually affect anything in the present day of the show, I doubt it, but it WAS Moffat's idea.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

I sorta think Hurt is a reconstruction of the part intended for Eccleston

Indeed, a popular theory since the rumours of John Hurt's role first leaked is that he'd be filling the role Eccleston would have served in the 50th, but I don't know. Given how things played out, I'm of the opinion that Hurt would have been this mysterious forgotten Doctor anyway, and that Moffat's plan would have simply featured Smith teaming up with Hurt plus Eccleston and Tennant. But that's just speculation on my part.

isn't the notion that he is part human a recurrent idea?

The Eighth Doctor infamously refers to himself as half human in the TV movie, though that has been largely ignored in the new series. The only times it does get acknowledged is when they want to make a joke ("Are you human?" "Is that optional?" "It is for me.")

 

[bryce]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

I keep hearing about a scene that was in the UK airing, but not the US airing (and what about on the DVD version?)

Anybody know anything about that?

Also, as I pointed out in another thread, is Hurt is a missing regeneration, then Doctor #11 is actually the the next-to-the-last life the Doctor has - and the Doctor only has one regeneration left!

And also, if the Valyard is between his 12th and final regeneration...

(And 11 said that Hurt's character was "me" but "not the Doctor" - contradicting what the text on the screen said...which means the Eccleston is *still* the "9th Doctor", Tennant still the 10th, and Smith still the 11th Doctors...)

 

[bryce]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

isn't the notion that he is part human a recurrent idea?

The Eighth Doctor infamously refers to himself as half human in the TV movie, though that has been largely ignored in the new series. The only times it does get acknowledged is when they want to make a joke ("Are you human?" "Is that optional?" "It is for me.")

Since the Timelords have the technology to make a Timelord into a human...couldn't they make a human into a Timelord? (In fact, on fan notion was that Ace eventually went to the Timelord academy, and because a Timelord - though that fanwanky idea was contradicted by dialog in an episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures...)

It's possible that the Doctor's biological mother *was* human...at one time. Or, the Doctor could have a a human mother, and yet still be 100% biologically Timelord.

I know that the show will probably just ignore that line in the TV movie, and never explain it (then again, some day a new producer could come along who wants to explore it)...but the line *was* said, and in my own personal canon, that's how I explain it.

Plus it's Doctor who, being "part human" and "half human" can mean lots of different things. (Maybe somehow during the regeneration that Doctor was contaminated with Grace's DNA, and she's his "mother", lol. Or maybe he was half-human for *one* regeneration - he also said in the movie that he could change species via regeneration!!)

 

[Classic Fan]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Welcome back Moffat.

Seriously thrilling stuff.

This will be known as the day Doctor Who went all Forest Gump.

The opening few minutes will stay with me forever, just so well done and edited, and coloured etc all perfectly. Just loved it.

Love how the body doubles ran past Clara, looking so identical and even having the same feel.

And we all knew the doctor could hear River all along didnt we.

Honestly, great finale.

Interesting to see where the docors forgotten self story goes for the 50th.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

isn't the notion that he is part human a recurrent idea?

The Eighth Doctor infamously refers to himself as half human in the TV movie, though that has been largely ignored in the new series. The only times it does get acknowledged is when they want to make a joke ("Are you human?" "Is that optional?" "It is for me.")

Since the Timelords have the technology to make a Timelord into a human...couldn't they make a human into a Timelord? (In fact, on fan notion was that Ace eventually went to the Timelord academy, and because a Timelord - though that fanwanky idea was contradicted by dialog in an episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures...)

It's possible that the Doctor's biological mother *was* human...at one time. Or, the Doctor could have a a human mother, and yet still be 100% biologically Timelord.

I know that the show will probably just ignore that line in the TV movie, and never explain it (then again, some day a new producer could come along who wants to explore it)...but the line *was* said, and in my own personal canon, that's how I explain it.

Plus it's Doctor who, being "part human" and "half human" can mean lots of different things. (Maybe somehow during the regeneration that Doctor was contaminated with Grace's DNA, and she's his "mother", lol. Or maybe he was half-human for *one* regeneration - he also said in the movie that he could change species via regeneration!!)

Well, we could sit around thinking up various explanations all day. In the end, the show has chosen to ignore it, and that's all that matters.

Although an early draft of the script for The End of Time did have this rather amusing joke kind of explaining it:

Cactus Lady: "So, Mr. Saxon isn't human?"
Doctor: "No."
Cactus Lady: "And you're not human either?"
Doctor: "No. Well, I was, briefly. New Year's Eve 1999. But I got over it, like the flu."

 

[Captain_Amasov]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

The Eighth Doctor infamously refers to himself as half human in the TV movie, though that has been largely ignored in the new series. The only times it does get acknowledged is when they want to make a joke ("Are you human?" "Is that optional?" "It is for me.")

Since the Timelords have the technology to make a Timelord into a human...couldn't they make a human into a Timelord? (In fact, on fan notion was that Ace eventually went to the Timelord academy, and because a Timelord - though that fanwanky idea was contradicted by dialog in an episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures...)

It's possible that the Doctor's biological mother *was* human...at one time. Or, the Doctor could have a a human mother, and yet still be 100% biologically Timelord.

I know that the show will probably just ignore that line in the TV movie, and never explain it (then again, some day a new producer could come along who wants to explore it)...but the line *was* said, and in my own personal canon, that's how I explain it.

Plus it's Doctor who, being "part human" and "half human" can mean lots of different things. (Maybe somehow during the regeneration that Doctor was contaminated with Grace's DNA, and she's his "mother", lol. Or maybe he was half-human for *one* regeneration - he also said in the movie that he could change species via regeneration!!)

Well, we could sit around thinking up various explanations all day. In the end, the show has chosen to ignore it, and that's all that matters.

Although an early draft of the script for The End of Time did have this rather amusing joke kind of explaining it:

Cactus Lady: "So, Mr. Saxon isn't human?"
Doctor: "No."
Cactus Lady: "And you're not human either?"
Doctor: "No. Well, I was, briefly. New Year's Eve 1999. But I got over it, like the flu."

I always thought of it as a "malfunction" of the regeneration process, due to the anaesthetic he was given. Time Lords have been said to be able to change species, so him being half human was an involuntary occurrence in this instance.

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Doesn't work within the context of the film because he specifically states that his mother is human.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Doesn't work within the context of the film because he specifically states that his mother is human.

It depends on whether he was actually being serious though, since he uses the comment to merely distract someone so he can pickpocket them.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Doesn't work within the context of the film because he specifically states that his mother is human.

It depends on whether he was actually being serious though, since he uses the comment to merely distract someone so he can pickpocket them.

It's more than that. The opening of the Eye of Harmony depends on the Doctor having human eyes.

 

[diankra]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

I keep hearing about a scene that was in the UK airing, but not the US airing (and what about on the DVD version?)

Yes, but no, assuming we're talking about the 1996 TV movie (think so, but with the mixing of talk about that and the latest episode...).
There's at least four versions of that movie: the US tx version, the planned UK tx version, the re-edit of that which was done after the Dunblane massacre made the BBC iffy about shots of children (even teenagers) being machine-gunned, and if I recall right, slightly different re-edits on the VHS tape and the BBC1 tx version (because the BBC board and the BBFC asked for different cuts). Plus another version - which might be one of the above - was run in BBC2's Doctor Who night, and the various DVD releases have included subtly different versions including most of the above. There may be more due to early releases/screenings of cuts sent out before the above cuts had been made.
So there's too many variants for anyone to have ever had the patience to document (FX: starts counting, waiting for someone to post the linkto the site that does list them all!). But there's no major variations to them in terms of continuity stuff, unless you count the Master's dying words, or the mess-up over 12 lives/regenerations that was sorted out by a dedub.
Everything else was in the early alternative scripts. Which are enough to make a sane man hear an ever-lasting sound of drums. Tap-tap-tap-tap...

 

[Captain_Amasov]

Re: Finale discussion thread (spoilerifictitle insided) *SPOILERS WITH

Doesn't work within the context of the film because he specifically states that his mother is human.

It depends on whether he was actually being serious though, since he uses the comment to merely distract someone so he can pickpocket them.

It's more than that. The opening of the Eye of Harmony depends on the Doctor having human eyes.

No, because the Master and the Doctor have a conversation about that, in which it is mentioned that Lee could open the eye because he was fully human, while the Doctor couldn't because he was only half.

Neither of which confirms he actually had a human mother, since it could still be attributed to something that happened with this particular regeneration.