Fifteen years later, I still don't fully understand the final few minutes of Voyager.

[Guy Gardener]

It was also now common knowledge that Seven had spent months boffing a Chuckles hologram.

Boys like to call that "a sure thing" which helps with the nerves when approaching a woman who is more likely to say "remember the time you tried to vent me into space?" than "Yes, my girly bits do tingle when you approach, I would love to have dinner with you."

Seven's emotional state is fine. Maybe she's been through more than most people, but really it was just one thing. Regular humans have to over come hundreds of different small tragedies, she just had to figure out how to be okay with her life being stolen for 2 decades, and really, I think mostly that she loved being Borg. Kinda like Heroin, you know it's bad for you, you know you shouldn't do it, or remember how good the High felt, because that high felt awesome, worth killing for, and you regret admitting how intensely satisfying it had been to be a junkie, because it's just not a cool life, or a very long life. Seven was more traumatized by her recovery and rehabilitation than Done life.

She was 30 something, he was 40 something. The age difference is fine.

B'Elanna and Chak joined a terrorist orgnization for almost possibly no reason. In modern terms. They read an email in their spam folder asking them to join Isis, and obeyed. That really makes them emotionally malleable twits more so than well rounded persons.

 

[hux]

If the Borg have tech to control your physical deficiencies then it stands to reason that they also placed a node or widget or wangle or whatever somewhere in the brain to control psychological deficiencies and breakdowns.

Her cortical node failed and almost turned her into a high functioning parsnip so God only knows what would happen if her mental health chip ever failed.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

At the time it was being filmed, didn't Beltran publicly disapprove of this ending?

What is bothering me is why the Sphere was firing only its beam type weapons. Why did it not engage Voyager with its torpedos?

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

At the time it was being filmed, didn't Beltran publicly disapprove of this ending?

What is bothering me is why the Sphere was firing only its beam type weapons. Why did it not engage Voyager with its torpedos?

Beltran & Ryan disapproved Chuckles/Seven romance because it was a some last-minute contrivance that was never properly planned and developed by the show's producers and writers though numerous occasions (Human Error & Natural Law).

As for your second question, I guess that writers wanted to rush the end and for that, to allow Voyager to go home safe and sound (look at the end, the vassel, it is undamaged even though it was attacked by Borg Collective : Cubes and Sphere, which fired on Voyager).

 

[Guy Gardener]

At the time it was being filmed, didn't Beltran publicly disapprove of this ending?

What is bothering me is why the Sphere was firing only its beam type weapons. Why did it not engage Voyager with its torpedos?

Do the Borg have torpedoes?

The Borg are on a mission to help a few people who don't want to be helped.

Like that time the family got together to get Aunt Karen into Rehab.

They would only arm their ships with Torpedoes if they were on a warfooting.

Which they are not.

They are benevolent humanitarians trying to improve the quality of life for the galaxy, which is a beautiful and noble endeavour.

They expect to be welcomed as liberators wherever they arrive somewhere new, so why would they need torpedoes?

Besides it's hard to assimilate tech and resources that's been blowed up.

 

[Drone]

I liked the 7/Chakotay romance actually. It felt right to me. She'd been sought by emotionally immature men who needed her. It made sense to me that she would appreciate a man who wanted her, not needed her.

I agree. I think there was a presentiment of an admiration that Chakotay had for her from the beginning, in the scene in which she excoriates the human way of making decisions vs. the Borg's (one must acknowledge that he did try to kill her a short time afterwards) . He understood her opinion and even appreciated it to the extent of seriously referring to it in the ensuing conversation with Janeway. From what Seven came to understand about Chakotay, was that he was a man of strong opinions, who didn't hesitate to voice them, although it was probably fortunate that she wasn't present in Janeway's office or elsewhere, when he was servilely brought to heel by the Big Cheese. Regardless, the admiration for him that I think grew over time, and that the Doctor's tutelage probably helped to inform her sense of physical attraction to be directed towards someone of Chakotay's strong presence and compelling good looks. For him, there was obviously great respect for her intellect and how it came to be utilized time and again for the mission's benefit. His options of romantic involvement were limited, just as, and in accordance with, Janeway's commitment to the mission and refusal to allow the suasion of a personal relationship with anyone on board, to compromise that focus on duty.

That Seven would pursue in the real world, the object of her nascent ardor in the holodeck seems quite likely, and perhaps predictable. I think that honestly the events depicted in Endgame as regards to them, did not drop out of the sky, preformed with no discernible precedent. Aside from Seven's readying herself for this chance to much more completely signify her re-finding the potential for her life that had been usurped by the Borg,we also did see an episode in Natural Law, which was spent entirely together, independent of anyone from Voyager, and only buttressed a sense that an attraction so substantive was possible in reality, by each finding something in the other, whose conduct during in the episode suggested that following her template to its logical conclusion would not be at all implausible.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Beltran & Ryan disapproved Chuckles/Seven romance because it was a some last-minute contrivance that was never properly planned and developed by the show's producers and writers though numerous occasions (Human Error & Natural Law).

As for your second question, I guess that writers wanted to rush the end and for that, to allow Voyager to go home safe and sound (look at the end, the vassel, it is undamaged even though it was attacked by Borg Collective : Cubes and Sphere, which fired on Voyager).

Well thats because the armour was in use at that time...

Regarding Beltran, Memory Alpha notes:

A noted critic of the writing and characterizations on the show, Beltran had several gripes about the final episode. He complained that the episode was written with a lack of care, too quickly wrapping up some well-established story arcs. Additionally, Beltran theorized that the episode was written out of frustration over Voyager's audience ratings, stating about the writers, "They took it out on us by saying, 'This show's no good. Let's get it over with as quickly as possible so we can fix it for the next one.'" [6] Beltran also rhetorically asked about the installment, "This is what we're going out with?" and claimed the episode made him feel vindicated about his belief that the writers were "idiots," saying it was unfortunate that the fans were "going to have to sit through it."

 

[Amasov]

Janeway seems very out of character in this episode. I think the part that really sticks out for me is when they are overlooking the Borg transwarp hub. Her first question is, "So, how do we destroy it?"



I guess you could tie it in a bit to previous Borg episodes where she was willing to kill a drone to save Seven or outright steal a transwarp coil so they can get home faster.

 

[roseake]

Unlike TNG and DS9 before it, Voyager's finale did not bookend the series. Both "All Good Things," and "What You Leave Behind," had a tie-in with the pilot episode.
[....]
If you watch both "Caretaker" and "Endgame" back to back, it's like night and day.

I totally feel this. Watching the first and last episodes of TNG and DS9 (especially DS9) back to back makes me tear up every time; they're done in such a way that you can see how the characters have been influenced and changed - I reckon if you showed someone with no Trek experience "Emissary" and then "What You Leave Behind" they'd still get a feel for just how much these characters have gone through.

As much as I love the characters of Voyager, watching "Caretaker" and then "Endgame" just makes me angry.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

I did hear a rumor that there was something on file about the female Caretaker just in case the show was cancelled suddenly without warning but I have not been able to verify that.

Anything more on that? Somewhere ... anywhere ... on the Internet? What would the story have been?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I was hoping that the last scene would have been Janeway getting what she deserves - a General Court Martial and dismissed the service

 

[stardream]

Anything more on that? Somewhere ... anywhere ... on the Internet? What would the story have been?

There is this bit from memory alpha so take it for what's worth.

'The existence of the missing Caretaker's partner was conceived as a viable "out," meant as potentially a convenient method of returning USS Voyager's crew home, if viewer response indicated the series had to make a fundamental shift in its premise and setting. (Star Trek: Voyager - A Vision of the Future, pp. 191-192)'

I don't think they got as far as an actual story.

 

[Amasov]

Well thats because the armour was in use at that time...

Regarding Beltran, Memory Alpha notes:

I totally feel this. Watching the first and last episodes of TNG and DS9 (especially DS9) back to back makes me tear up every time; they're done in such a way that you can see how the characters have been influenced and changed - I reckon if you showed someone with no Trek experience "Emissary" and then "What You Leave Behind" they'd still get a feel for just how much these characters have gone through.

As much as I love the characters of Voyager, watching "Caretaker" and then "Endgame" just makes me angry.

Agreed and as much as we all loathe "These Are The Voyages..." it at least has some tie in with "Broken Bow." We see Enterprise launched and then decommissioned.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Agreed and as much as we all loathe "These Are The Voyages..." it at least has some tie in with "Broken Bow." We see Enterprise launched and then decommissioned.

No we did not...

We saw her under passage for Earth and decommissioning and storage. We did not actually see her decommissioning ceremony

 

[Amasov]

No we did not...

We saw her under passage for Earth and decommissioning and storage. We did not actually see her decommissioning ceremony

Sorry, I forgot. If we don't SEE it, it didn't happen.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Sorry, I forgot. If we don't SEE it, it didn't happen.

Just pointing it out...!

Actually, have we ever seen a decommissioning in any episode or film in Trek history?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Enterprise was joining the "mothball fleet".

I assumed that that meant that the NX-01 was now too slow to be a war ship, so it was joining something like the "national guard" to defend Earth. If you're never going to leave the solar system, but you're still a scary gun ship, it no longer matters that you are 3 or 4 warp factors slower than every one else out there if all you're doing is holding a line between Earth and all the assholes out there.

 

[Drone]

Janeway seems very out of character in this episode. I think the part that really sticks out for me is when they are overlooking the Borg transwarp hub. Her first question is, "So, how do we destroy it?"



I guess you could tie it in a bit to previous Borg episodes where she was willing to kill a drone to save Seven or outright steal a transwarp coil so they can get home faster.

I really don't agree with your contention for two reasons, primarily. First, and less importantly, is her animus towards the Admiral. She certainly doesn't appreciate the idea of her authority being usurped, even it's by a future iteration of herself that obviously knows a lot more of whats to come than she does, but also is harder, more cynical, and apparently even less open to dissent. Obviously, the Captain's viewpoint alters when the Admiral relents and tells her the real impetus for her mission. But that doesn't come until later.

I think the main reason that her primary impulse is to destroy the hub and not use it, is that fundamentally, she understands that the former would represent a crippling blow to the cause and advancement of the Borg everywhere. Certainly, Voyager had not only survived their encounters with the Borg, but furthered the incipient struggle against them, as in Unimatrix Zero. But Janeway had not encountered anything of this level of magnitude to so substantively harm the Collective in such a decisive manner. Of course, one can return to the mantra of Voyager's primary goal being the return home as expeditiously as possible. While she was loath to stall that imperative, I imagine that she felt that the progress they had made through the various means they had taken advantage of along the way, not all of their own doing, mind, was significant enough that even passing up this immediate window home, might only delay ultimate success in reaching Earth by a few years perhaps, a reasonable exchange for the damage to a still galactic threat, that the action she wanted to undertake would inflict. Again, this was before the Admiral's compelling admission, but even at that point, the Captain would not give up on the integral nature of this strategic foray, the difference being, that by fulfilling the fate that the Admiral anticipated for herself from the outset, Voyager could also be delivered at the same time and not be consigned to the much longer and more painful track that the Admiral's Voyager had to endure.

As always, Janeway's reach was lofty and extremely ambitious. Despite setbacks at various times in the past, she must have reckoned with all the tools available on this occasion, success on both tracks, one as significant as the other, was within her grasp if all the elements came together just as planned.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Lets face it - the last few minutes should have had the head of Starfleet Security beaming over to personally arrest Janeway for a GCM and Dismissed the Service

 

[Drone]

Never was going to happen. Not in a million years. If that's your estimation of what she truly deserved, than I would suggest a discreet and expertly obscured assassination by Section 31 would be the better tack. Would go over much better all the way around.