Federation, Klingons or Romulans - who was the most powerful?

[Unimatrix Q]

Guess it depends on which kind of power is meant.

If were talking about military might, it's maybe something like:

1. Klingons
2. Federation
3. Romulans.

If were talking about technological advancements:

1. Federation
2. Romulans
3. Klingons

 

[Phily B]

I always thought the Federation was the strongest, but they were spread thin because of the size of the Federation compared to the Klingon Empire and Romulan Empire. The Romulans always seemed the weakest of them all, their Warbirds seemed to be designed specifically for surprise attacks and intimidation and I always thought this was backed up in DS9 when the Romulans always seemed to be the ones getting their shit pushed in.

 

[Tenacity]

I’ve read most of the prime timeline books from ...

Paragraphs my young Padawan, paragraphs.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

I've always thought as the Klingons (TNG era) as being the weaker of the three and UFP as being the stronger if in war mode. I kind of got the Impression that the Klingons were always betting on the Federation's help if war started with the Romulans, and that if the Romulans thought they had a tactical advantage, they would have invaded either of them.

I also had the impression that if the Klingons ever sided with the Romulans against the Federation, UFP would definitely be in trouble. This wouldn't have happened though, as both the Feds and Klingons knew that if the Romulans defeated the UFP, they would go after the Klingons next... to me, the primary reason the Klingons (mostly) kept to the Khitomer accords.

 

[Samuel]

Hi all.

First off, before I begin, I'd like to say that although the Romulans' military power in comparison to the others is worth discussing as well, I personally think it is already slightly better established - at least between the Federation and the Romulans.

For example, it's made clear in a fair number of TNG episodes that any serious conflict (such as a war) between the Federation and the Romulan Empire would be disastrous, presumably for both sides.
.

Not necessarily. In "The Defector" Admiral Haden tells Captain Picard IIRC "No one wants war. But we are prepared to take them on if necessary".

Not exactly the words of a Starfleet Admiral overly concerned about the Romulans.

 

[diankra]

They tried to do that with Vulcan and Remians are a conquered and enslaved people.

The circumstantial evidence is also pretty strong:
- Why would they call themselves a Stellar Empire.

National names are often inaccurate. Democratic Republics are generally communist dictatorships.

Wider points... 'disastrous' would mean different things to different regimes. If the USA lost Alaska and Hawaii the other 48 states would still be a functioning nation, but it would be a disaster. Ditto for the UFP.
But if the Romulans lost a few border planets they'd shrug it off, log the loss as an injury to be avenged in the next war, etc. Disastrous would be the destruction or occupation of all its worlds.
I tend to assume that the TOS era UFP could finish the Romulans very fast... If it was willing to take massive losses in the duration (and sustain an ongoing occupation later, unless they simply genocide all Romulan worlds from orbit). But that isn't what the UFP does. It is restrained by its morality. Its enemies think that a weakness.

 

[Six of Twelve]

I think the Federation's strength came with its diversity, adaptability, and flexibility. The majority adversaries suffered by being "one-note" cultures in that they emphasized one thing above all others, making them less flexible over a wide variety of situations. To use the Klingons as the most egregious example, they're all about being warriors, but have put insufficient emphasis on science and diplomacy.

Even some Federation members suffer from the one-note issue. This is the reason why humans were able to catch up to the Vulcans so quickly as a space faring species, despite being a relative latecomer to warp capability.

 

[at Quark's]

I always had the impression that in the long run, Klingons were gradually sliding down the scale compared to the other major powers, especially the Federation.

22nd century (ENT era) - Klingons forces and techs are very superior when compared to Earth's (probably not when compared to Vulcan's, though).
23rd century (TOS era) - Klingons and Fed probably evenly matched (both sides seem to consider the other side as a dangerous opponent that could overcome them). This is of course discounting TUC with the 'sudden' Klingon collapse
24th entury (TNG era) - Klingons definitely aren't a 2nd rate power, but they seem to be not quite as powerful as the Federation. This is of course ignoring episodes as Yesterday's Enterprise, but that's a very different timeline.

It's less clear for the Romulans, they seem to be more on an equal footing with the Federation in all eras, but they're a very secretive species, so they probably conceal their weaknesses, too.

 

[Ithekro]

I would think that the 2340s were be when the Praxis Incident was finally cleaned up and the Klingons were able to turn their attention back to potential war, conquest, and the like. They turned all that into warship production and my guess they potentially resented the Federation for making them feel weak in saving their planet over the last 50 years or so. Relations start to fall apart. The Federation attempts to make a more permanent peace now that the Klingon Empire no longer requires aid from the Federation, but the Klingons aren't having it, plus it is possible the Romulans were attempting to rile up the Klingons into a war frenzy and pin stuff on the Federation. However the USS Enterprise sacrificed itself in defense of a Klingon world against Romulan forces, followed two years later by another clearly Romulan attack on another Klingon outpost with a Federation starship being one of the earliest ships to arrive results in the Klingons deciding that the Federation is honorable enough to be worthy allies, rather than just worthy opponents. The Romulans go deeper into isolation, even from the Klingons. They have more pressing issues and don't want the Klingon-Federation alliance to hit them all at once. They need to make more plans to destabilize the region before attempting to break the Alliance, and potentially both powers without needing to go to war with them.

However in the other timeline, the USS Enterprise either was never proven to be at that battle, or the Klingons though the Federation was responsible for that attack, and continued to turn their war machine out at full force and hit the Federation with it not too long afterwards (just as the Romulans hoped. After two decades, the Federation, while technologically advanced, is slowly getting worn out by the Klingons. It is also possible that the Romulans are helping the Klingons in this war (either directly through allying through the House of Duras, or indirectly by using the war as cover to set up cloaked ship traps in Federation space and hunting down stray starships).

 

[STR]

But that isn't what the UFP does. It is restrained by its morality. Its enemies think that a weakness.

Each power has it's own morality. Even the Romulans had some kind of limit. Donatra(?) in ST Nemesis explicitly called out Shinzon as genocidal. They clearly don't mind killing millions if it serves a purpose. Wanton murder is immoral to them. On the other hand, the Tal Shiar plotted to wipe out the Founders which is along the same lines as what Shinzon wanted to do.

Klingons generally don't think it's sporting to kill those unable to defend themselves. Though, at least Worf has zero compunction about pretending to slaughter cities full of civilians on the holodeck. Also, they seem to deal with insurgencies harshly, as they tried on Organia.

Cardassians were shown to be the most ruthless of the major powers. Dukat was kept out of high command explicitly because they thought he lost Bajor for being too nice to the natives.

 

[Thanos The Mad Titan]

Hi all. I am new here. I am a long time fan of TNG and 24th century Trek! I love questions like this.

So, assuming that we are only looking at the 24th Century, I think the rankings might be something like this:

Federation > Klingon Empire
Federation > Romulan Empire
Klingon Empire = Romulan Star Empire
Klingon Empire + Romulan Star Empire > Federation

However, I believe that any of the powers are capable of knocking the other out, under the right circumstances (this could explain why the Klingons were defeating the Federation during the alternate Enterprise-C timeline).

I base the Federation being the top dog on the fact that the Federation has more species in its borders, and has larger territory, and seems to have overall better tech than the other powers. With more people and more points of view, brings more innovation, and potential for victory. In DS9, the Federation seems to be more than a match for the Klingons, and if they continued to slog it out, it would have eventually gone to the Federation. The Romulans almost always seem to retreat when up against the Federation throughout TNG, rather than actually fight. Probably the only thing that could potentially work against the Federation is that

Klingons are more war like and maybe ship to ship can stand on equal footing with the Federation, but I think they likely never fully recovered from Praxis. I compare them to the old Soviet Union VS the US: all their tech is for fighting, but of the three main powers, aside from weaponry, their tech is slightly inferior overall, because fighting is where they put their emphasis. They also seem to hang onto older ships longer than anyone else. However, I don't think the Klingons are as intelligent as the Vulcans, or as pragmatic as humans, so they could potentially be drawn into strategic traps by the Federation, and ultimately lose.

The Romulans seem to have better tech than the Klingons, and roughly equal to the federation in some aspects, but overall inferior to the Federation. I always got the sense that they never fight unless they have an overwhelming advantage, and come off as somewhat cowardly (at least in the 24th century). This could be because they aren't confident in their tech, as well as being a dictatorship that has conquered worlds and has countless coup d'etats, I think that the Romulans are afraid to take on the Federation because they could find themselves fighting a multi front war (Feds surround them), as well as deal with uprisings of conquered territory, which could lead to a Bolshevik style revolution on Romulus. If a war took place prior to the Dominion War, they would stand a better chance against the Federation, but if during or after, then not as well.

However, if any two power align against the third, then that side would easily win.

 

[matthunter]

The Romulans always seemed the weakest of them all, their Warbirds seemed to be designed specifically for surprise attacks and intimidation and I always thought this was backed up in DS9 when the Romulans always seemed to be the ones getting their shit pushed in.

Which we only hear from battle reports. It's entirely possible the Romulans were taking heavy hits because the Dominion was targeting them and trying to make them lose stomach for a fight they only entered reluctantly in the first place. That or the Romulans were taking the brunt of battles in order to "prove" they were genuinely committed to the fight, but I think the former more likely.

Storywise, of course, it's to play up the guilt Sisko feels at tricking them into the war.

Though you could argue that the Dominion's defeat of Tain's Tal Shiar/Obsidian Order force a few years back gave them tactical intel on warbirds and Romulan strategies that helped - but then they had Changelings in Starfleet Command and the Klingon Defence Forces.

 

[velour]

Which we only hear from battle reports. It's entirely possible the Romulans were taking heavy hits because the Dominion was targeting them and trying to make them lose stomach for a fight they only entered reluctantly in the first place. That or the Romulans were taking the brunt of battles in order to "prove" they were genuinely committed to the fight, but I think the former more likely.

Storywise, of course, it's to play up the guilt Sisko feels at tricking them into the war.

Though you could argue that the Dominion's defeat of Tain's Tal Shiar/Obsidian Order force a few years back gave them tactical intel on warbirds and Romulan strategies that helped - but then they had Changelings in Starfleet Command and the Klingon Defence Forces.

Another reason the Dominion may have targeted the Romulans was to get revenge for their genocidal sneak attack on the Founders before the war. And yet another reason may be that the Dominion perceived the Romulans to be the weakest of the three allies.

I think the Romulan military prowess may have been overrated. Starting from their loss during "The Balance oft Terror", the Romulans seemed to be cautious in avoiding all-out war with the other powers. I don't know but maybe they understood their their own relative weakness and vulnerabilities.

I wonder if the Romulans conscripted the Remans to fight the war.

 

[Graham]

I think it depends a little on what exactly is being compared.

My bet would be that the Federation is the strongest of the four powers (Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians)... but that they don't fulfil more than a fraction of their military potential, and therefore Starfleet isn't necessarily the strongest.

Here's my thinking. The Klingons have a very militarised culture. They must have a non-military section of their economy of course (who cleans the telephones?!), but it seems to me that the Klingons permanently run their economy more or less on a war footing.

The Romulans and Cardassians aren't all that different. Both of them seems to put considerable emphasis on the military.

The Federation, by contrast, doesn't seem to emphasise Starfleet nearly as much.

Also, consider that Starfleet don't build warships. A Galaxy class is not a warship; it's more like an oceanographic research vessel with some missiles bolted on. So the military capability of any given Starfleet ship is a fraction of what it otherwise could be.

And yet, it's at leach a match one-on-one for a Vor'Cha or D'Deridex, and more than a match for a Galor.

This is backed up by the Defiant. The first real warship Starfleet built, the defiant is tiny compared to most ships around. Much smaller than a Vor'Cha, D'Deridex, Galor, Galaxy, Nebula, or anything else.

Yet it easily defeated Jem'Hadar bug ships, which a Galaxy class couldn't do. Tom Riker confidently expected it to be able to take on three Galors. It beat a vastly uprated Excelsior when it was studiously trying NOT to damage the Excelsior too badly.

And if the little Defiant could do all that, can you even imagine what a ship the size of a Galaxy class but built to the same "combat over all" principle would be like?

So two conclusions to all that.

1) The Federation could, probably, greatly expand the size of Starfleet if they were willing to sacrifice a chunk of the civilian economy to do so.

2) If the Federation began to produce pure warships, they would probably greatly outclass the warships of any other major power.

So how powerful the Federation actually are is really a function of how powerful they choose to be at any given time. And most of the time, they don't choose to be particularly powerful.

It's actually quite analogous to the USA just before World War II. One could look at their military and say it's not all that big, it's not all that modern... we can beat that. But a wise man would look at their gigantic population, huge natural resources, and simply colossal industrial capacity and say "dude, if we push these people to it they'll build a military to shake the world."

And like the US in the first year or so of war, the Federation's main problem when facing the other powers is that you largely fight a war with what you have to hand, at least to begin with. It's one thing to say that the Federation probably could build an overwhelming force, but it would take time to do it. And in the meanwhile, you fight with what you have - a fleet sized for peacetime and designed for diplomacy and exploration.

But bear in mind... even with that force, Earth fought the Romulans, alone, and fought them to a standstill. The Federation fought the Klingons before TOS, and fought them to a standstill. The Federation fought the Cardassians before TNG, and fought them to a standstill too.

And in Star Trek VI, everybody expected that in war with the Klingons, the Klingons would lose. Badly. Even the Klingons said as much.

The only thing to really argue against that is the fact that in Yesterday's Enterprise we find that the Klingons were winning the war. But I don't put that much store in that; anything can happen in an alternate reality, after all. But I'm fine with saying that at that particular time the Federation had cut back on their military capability to such a point that the Klingons were able to overwhelm them before they could turn it around.