Federation Brexit

[Tenacity]

As long as we're clear that Eddington's diatribe is self-serving bs full of holes big enough to run a starship through.

Not clear at all, Eddington is someone who has lived in the Federation and his statement is from someone who has seen it from the inside. His statement lines up with Quark's "root beer" observation.

Curious: What is “Federation Culture”?

It's doubtful is has one (as you said), there no evidence that outside of a few people that Earth and Vulcan are moving toward a single culture. In peoples day to day lives, the Federation is probably never noticed or thought of.

Or Starfleet is acting on the Council's orders and that's just not being spelled out explicitly

Or Starfleet has considerable independent purview to operate without oversight from the council.

I don't quite understand your concern. Every system that joins gets one voice at the Council

Or the founding members built into the Federation additional powers for themselves and a few others (like the UN security council), and the rest of the members get to vote on little stuff. There's no evidence that it's one member - one vote.

I always thought the Maquis and Eddington were totally insane if they thought they could create an independent nation on the Cardassian border like that.

America was fairly small and weak when we took on the nation with one of the strongest military in the world, but we established our independence.

The Maquis were doing a good job taking on the Cardasians until the Cardassian got a lot of outside help. Without the Federation and later the Dominion the Maquis stood a good chance of achieving exactly what they were aiming for.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Not clear at all, Eddington is someone who has lived in the Federation and his statement is from someone who has seen it from the inside. His statement lines up with Quark's "root beer" observation.

No, it's really abundantly clear.

I know you. I was like you once, but then I opened my eyes. Open your eyes, Captain. Why is the Federation so obsessed with the Maquis? We've never harmed you. And yet we're constantly arrested and charged with terrorism.

This is bullshit right off the bat. The Maquis exist entirely to drag the Federation into a war it doesn't want. They use terrorist tactics against civilian populations. And they steal directly from Starfleet in order to achieve all this. The Federation has very clear, obvious and logical reasons to go after the Maquis. Frankly, based on the actual on screen evidence, the Federation is far more lenient on them than it arguably could've/should've been.

Starships chase us through the Badlands and our supporters are harassed and ridiculed. Why? Because we've left the Federation, and that's the one thing you can't accept. Nobody leaves paradise. Everyone should want to be in the Federation. Hell, you even want the Cardassians to join. You're only sending them replicators because one day they can take their 'rightful place' on the Federation Council. You know, in some ways you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. You're more insidious. You assimilate people and they don't even know it.

Here, again, there is no good reason to believe that his assigned motive is even remotely accurate, since we've already established that the Federation has very good reasons for hunting the Maquis.

Secondly, the claim that the Federation only provides aid in the hope of getting new members is obviously laughable, considering that humanitarian concerns like aid go to the very core of the Federation identity.

Thirdly, offering people Federation membership if they want it is NOT assimilation. Eddington, like Quark, is offering nothing more than a pathetic reactionary whine. He can't stand the fact that what the Federation offers is actually very attractive to many people - more attractive than what he offers. It is simple cultural jealousy mixed with the fear of being left behind in the dust of history because his chosen path 'isn't glamorous enough'. At the end of the day, the truth is that the Federation doesn't force anyone to join. It doesn't force anyone to be more like it. It attempts to affect change in the galaxy by being a good example (in its own opinion of good, of course), and overall it seems to present a very attractive package to many people in that regard. To claim that these people have been tricked, hoodwinked, taken advantage of in some way is to claim that these people don't really know what's good for them or have 'failed' to properly exercise their own freedom of choice. It's paternalistic bullshit, and it's actually far more insidious than anything the Federation does because Eddington is using it to justify a violent 'us vs them' attitude.

 

[Nightdiamond]

America was fairly small and weak when we took on the nation with one of the strongest military in the world, but we established our independence.
The Maquis were doing a good job taking on the Cardasians until the Cardassian got a lot of outside help. Without the Federation and later the Dominion the Maquis stood a good chance of achieving exactly what they were aiming for.

They would never be able to let down their guard. Of course, a smart country is not supposed to anyway, but Cardassians were extremely territorial. Even after a treaty was signed some of them still considered Bajor their territory. Based on what they did to Bajor or what they believe in doing to prisoners or enemies it just seems like a dangerous place to settle, raise children or build anything.

Not clear at all, Eddington is someone who has lived in the Federation and his statement is from someone who has seen it from the inside. His statement lines up with Quark's "root beer" observation.

The show made it seem like Eddington had a point and yet was a little delusional at the same time. Every time Eddington started talking about the Maquis cause, you could almost see Sisko looking out the corner of his eyes.

Or Starfleet has considerable independent purview to operate without oversight from the council.Or the founding members built into the Federation additional powers for themselves and a few others (like the UN security council), and the rest of the members get to vote on little stuff. There's no evidence that it's one member - one vote.

This does bring up the question of if the colonists got a vote in the treaty deal. Eddington and Obrien made pro Maquis arguments that seem to suggest the Federation council did it without their vote or approval;

EDDINGTON: Those people, They were colonists on Salva Two. They had farms, and shops, and homes, and schools, and then one day the Federation signed a treaty and handed their world over to the Cardassians. Just like that. They made these people refugees overnight.

O'BRIEN: What for? Defending their homes? Look at what's happened to those people. One day they're trying to eke out a living on some godforsaken colonies on the Cardassian border, the next day the Federation makes a treaty handing those colonies over to the Cardassians. What would you do?

They both say the Federation literally handed over the worlds to Cardassia and didn't care if people had been living there for decades. The possible danger is, the farther away a member or colony is from the core worlds, the less important it is 'in the scheme of things' at least to some.

 

[T'Boggan]

"America was fairly small and weak when we took on the nation with one of the strongest military in the world, but we established our independence."

The sheer logistics of conducting a war over such distances made it untenable to conduct an efficient military campaign. It took Months to get Men and supplies across the Atlantic. The Cardassian Military had no such problem They should have finished off the Maquis in short order. There were hints that the political will was changing and that the Cardassians didnt want full on war with the federation.

 

[DonIago]

The Cardassians were also dealing with their own internal problems at the time.