I mean, sure. As long as we're clear that Eddington's diatribe is self-serving bs full of holes big enough to run a starship through.
Federation Brexit
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I mean, sure. As long as we're clear that Eddington's diatribe is self-serving bs full of holes big enough to run a starship through.
I don't think (a) would be difficult in principle, though depending on how involved with the Federation your planet is, there may be a lot of bureaucratic disentanglement involved. As for (b), I'm not sure anyone's made that assumption? I haven't, in any case.
I imagine many races join the Federation because they like the idea of having Starfleet to protect them, because they like the possibilities of trade that joining opens up, because they want to have a seat at the larger galactic table and feel joining the UFP will give them that seat, or because they're a race that's curious about the larger galaxy and sees joining the Federation as a good way to address that curiosity. I mean, why do nations join the UN?
It would be interesting to know if a nation on Earth could leave United Earth or the Federation and what would happen in such a scenario.
Maybe the Founders on Earth tried to bring around such a case before and during the Dominion War...
Maybe the Founders on Earth tried to bring around such a case before and during the Dominion War...
Why align with a larger body? Um, why align as a planet? Why align as a nation for that matter? The Chalnoth are anarchists and have no government of any kind.
Why align? 1) so that the Cardassians don’t annex you? The tribbles were harmless and beloved by all, and yet were eradicated by the Klingons by the end of the 23rd century.
2) cause it’s less paperwork and bureaucracy than having to get a passport and a visa to travel or work one parsec to the left.
3) cause it’s less expensive and dangerous to have multiple standing national armies perpetually staring each other down than one large one maintaining legitimate borders.
4) cooperation is more efficient and productive than adversarialism. Give me one good reason I should let you borrow my hover-pencil, to complete your “cure for space-cancer” or whatever, before my people do, in thirty star-years.
5) because We The People.
Why align? 1) so that the Cardassians don’t annex you? The tribbles were harmless and beloved by all, and yet were eradicated by the Klingons by the end of the 23rd century.
2) cause it’s less paperwork and bureaucracy than having to get a passport and a visa to travel or work one parsec to the left.
3) cause it’s less expensive and dangerous to have multiple standing national armies perpetually staring each other down than one large one maintaining legitimate borders.
4) cooperation is more efficient and productive than adversarialism. Give me one good reason I should let you borrow my hover-pencil, to complete your “cure for space-cancer” or whatever, before my people do, in thirty star-years.
5) because We The People.
I always thought the Maquis and Eddington were totally insane if they thought they could create an independent nation on the Cardassian border like that. But then again maybe that was the only thing they could do in a situation like that.
There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument.
Starfleet gave their territory over to the Cardassians without really consulting them. Bad idea. But the Cardassian also gave up some of theirs. The Cardassians were caught violating treaties several times. But the colonist were warned not to settle there in the place. And so on.
A lot of propaganda for both sides.
I always wondered--
What happens when the Fed gets so large that it's member 350 that joins? The more members join, the farther away they are, and the more members have to be assimilated into Federation culture.
Would the other original members really know about or care about what happens to this member? Would it be too far away and too lost in the jumble?
That's sort of what happened with the Republic in Star Wars-it got so big that when a smaller member got invaded, the senate just sat around debating the issue in a bureaucratic mess.
One thing I noticed about this is that Starfleet seems to make a lot of decisions that only the Federation council would make. Negotiations, signing treaties, policing etc.
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Or Starfleet is acting on the Council's orders and that's just not being spelled out explicitly...
I don't quite understand your concern. Every system that joins gets one voice at the Council, plus whatever committees they're appointed(?) to. Much like politics these days, how much you do with that voice depends in part on your ability to work with others and make compelling arguments or agreements. It's called politics.
I don't quite understand your concern. Every system that joins gets one voice at the Council, plus whatever committees they're appointed(?) to. Much like politics these days, how much you do with that voice depends in part on your ability to work with others and make compelling arguments or agreements. It's called politics.
This is more curiosity or a 'what if' scenario than anything.
It was something like this that caught my attention, and reminded me of the situation in Star Wars TPM;
LEYTON: I'm afraid that would be a waste of time. Jaresh-Inyo would be a fine president in peacetime, but we have a war on our hands. He doesn't seem to understand that. All he cares about is not upsetting people. But humans are tougher than he thinks. We've created a paradise here and we're willing to fight to protect it.
SISKO: And you think the President isn't willing to fight?
LEYTON: I think the President is a long way from home. This isn't his world. We can't expect him to care about it the way we do.
And this is earth, one of the founding members and the capital of the Federation.
If it were a smaller, more recent member (in a club of hundreds), at the farthest reaches of the border, would they get lost in the shuffle?
Do other members (average civilians) really know about the culture and history, would they be concerned if something threatened it, or would they act the way Leyton thinks they could act when you're far away from something?
Characters sympathetic to the Maquis have made similar comments about the colonists being forgotten by the Federation because they were far away on a distant colony.
It was something like this that caught my attention, and reminded me of the situation in Star Wars TPM;
LEYTON: I'm afraid that would be a waste of time. Jaresh-Inyo would be a fine president in peacetime, but we have a war on our hands. He doesn't seem to understand that. All he cares about is not upsetting people. But humans are tougher than he thinks. We've created a paradise here and we're willing to fight to protect it.
SISKO: And you think the President isn't willing to fight?
LEYTON: I think the President is a long way from home. This isn't his world. We can't expect him to care about it the way we do.
And this is earth, one of the founding members and the capital of the Federation.
If it were a smaller, more recent member (in a club of hundreds), at the farthest reaches of the border, would they get lost in the shuffle?
Do other members (average civilians) really know about the culture and history, would they be concerned if something threatened it, or would they act the way Leyton thinks they could act when you're far away from something?
Characters sympathetic to the Maquis have made similar comments about the colonists being forgotten by the Federation because they were far away on a distant colony.
So if Washington D.C. was attacked, Hawaiians wouldn't care? Sure maybe you fight harder if it's you're hometown, but I think Leyton was full of it. He was trying to pull off a military coup d'etat and had lost all perspective.
The Maquis too were obstinate. They were told when they first settled there that the territory was in dispute (much like the Israelis they in-part represent), and they were offered to be resettled on within Federation borders, and they knew that they would be under Cardassian jurisdiction if they stayed where they were, then they chose to stay after things soured and start killing people/be killed. The treaty that was signed meant Cardassian citizens too were under foreign jurisdiction (something they didn't like either), and it averted a war that would have cost millions if not billions of lives, locking in solid, indisputable borders around which people could settle without uncertainty.
Eddington was a Romantic looking for a fight, and the zone attracted people like Lon Suder with violent tendencies or Tom Paris who was lost and angry. The Cardassians were scum for aiding their civilians to try to drive out the Federation settlers, but that doesn't make the Federation the Borg anymore than the U.S. Nazi Germany. False equivalency if I ever heard one.
The Maquis too were obstinate. They were told when they first settled there that the territory was in dispute (much like the Israelis they in-part represent), and they were offered to be resettled on within Federation borders, and they knew that they would be under Cardassian jurisdiction if they stayed where they were, then they chose to stay after things soured and start killing people/be killed. The treaty that was signed meant Cardassian citizens too were under foreign jurisdiction (something they didn't like either), and it averted a war that would have cost millions if not billions of lives, locking in solid, indisputable borders around which people could settle without uncertainty.
Eddington was a Romantic looking for a fight, and the zone attracted people like Lon Suder with violent tendencies or Tom Paris who was lost and angry. The Cardassians were scum for aiding their civilians to try to drive out the Federation settlers, but that doesn't make the Federation the Borg anymore than the U.S. Nazi Germany. False equivalency if I ever heard one.
I don't think the colonies were "forgotten", I think that, as Arpy said, the Council made the best choice it thought it could make under the circumstances for the good of as many people as possible. I've never heard anyone who thought it was a bad treaty come up with a better idea.
Now, that doesn't always mean the Council makes the "right" call, but nobody ever said government was infallible.
Now, that doesn't always mean the Council makes the "right" call, but nobody ever said government was infallible.
I don't think there's any question the Federation bears some responsibility for the existence of the Maquis or that it made some highly questionable decisions regarding the DMZ over the years.
But Eddington's 'the Federation is as bad as the Borg' tirade is completely outside this equation and is utterly, completely laughable.
Curious: What is “Federation Culture”?
The Federation isn’t homogeneous. It’s multiculturalism at it’s most utopian.
It doesn't, though. Dominion war is the closest to a 'galaxy wide' war in all of trek, and it would still be like calling the 30 years war a 'world war'. The Federation has never been at war with the Romulans. They were at war with the Klingons - what? three times that we know of? Of which one was over in like a day, another within a few weeks. The Cardassian thing seemed to drag on forever, but I've never heard any quote about 'Billions dead' in the Cardassian wars. They seemed more like endless border fights.
Who else is the Federation always going to war with? The Borg? They're at war with everyone, all the time. Ditto 8472. The Gorn? Who as far as we know fought one battle? The Tholians who fought maybe two or three? The Orions, who are almost always acting as pirates?
Nope.
One has to wonder how Betazed feels about Federation membership after being occupied by the Dominion and all..
Which BTW, should have been a much larger focus during the Dominion War arc. I’m still disappointed we never got to see the liberation of Betazed on screen.
Which BTW, should have been a much larger focus during the Dominion War arc. I’m still disappointed we never got to see the liberation of Betazed on screen.
I appreciate that, but I still say it should have been shown on screen.
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