Spoilers Fear the Walking Dead - Season 6

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by TREK_GOD_1, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

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    I have it. I saw it. I thought it was okay but not blown away as much I fell as The Habs Fan is. To me they just seem like yet another group of bad guys.
     
  2. The Habs Fan

    The Habs Fan Commodore Commodore

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    IMO their motivation is very different than any villains we’ve seen in the franchise before. Also, their methods are legitimately scary.
     
  3. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    I find myself doing impressions of Strand but it only consists of saying people's names (Dan-iel, O-fel-ia, Vir-gin-ia, etc.). He really seems to love to roll people's names around his mouth as he says them.
     
  4. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    By now, this has aired for just about everyone, so...


    Fear the Walking Dead
    Season 6 / Episode 11 - "The Holding"


    Alicia: I was not in favor of the writers having Alicia--now seasoned in the ZA--just let her personal business flow as Riley recorded her. Still, it did tell us that she's carrying a lot of regret and sadness, particularly about her mother and until recently, the constant failure to create a safe home. She was very effective in the brief fight with the embalmer, and that--a more scrappy, brutal kind of fighting--worked for her character.

    How she intends to prevent herself from being used / abused by Teddy's group and protect the whereabouts of Morgan seems like the kind of plot that could lead a Woodbury-esque conflict, but one would at least the dam outpost does not go the way of the WD's prison, with Alicia--like Andrea or Hershel--ending up a victim caught between two warring factions.

    Wes and Derek:
    Poor Wes--the moment he set eyes on his brother, I knew this would not be a happy reunion---the psychologically beat down + all-for-the-group mentality advocate look was set in Derek's eyes. Teddy must have sensed much weakness in Derek's mind to convince him (in so short a time) the have any participation in the refinery attacks, and think outright murder is some greater good. ...and common among groupthink types, it took nothing for Derek to turn on Wes, pretending to be a part of the escape party, to turning a gun on Wes. Tragic as it might be, Wes pushing Derek into the monument Walker--and Wes not being entirely broken up about it illustrated just how disgusted he was with Derek.

    ...but I'm sure he will attempt to have his revenge on the Teddy cult for taking his brother way in spirit as well as mind.

    Teddy and The End is the Beginning group: Very much a counter-culture cross between Terminus and the Saviors with some Charles Manson "soothsaying" tossed in (the part about idea of hiding underground while those on the surface are killed off) tossed in. Showrunner Ian Goldberg refers to them as terrorists, which they most certainly are.

    The entire "seeing truth" in the walker monument was pure psychological manipulation; any answer given would always be said to be "wrong" until new recruits (or captives) adjust their thinking toward the constantly repeated beliefs/justification for their campaign. Like Terminus, their dietary habits were absolutely disgusting, with Riley twisting the idea of the dead going back into the earth where food is grown. The BIG difference is that the Walkers are reanimated by some unknown agent which--in some way--is lethal to the living, so grinding them up for soil, seed for chickens, etc. means they are consuming elements of the Walker virus, no matter how much one might claim its broken down in the growing process.

    Teddy--in his counter-culture bouts of insanity--created a means of punishment by embalming the living and sewing their mouths shut. I have to say that was an inventive form of execution.

    Teddy trying to play Alicia--seeing some way of using her to push his deadly plans (even probing by suggesting she was trying to sacrifice herself by fiery / Walker suicide like her mother) comes off like he will set her up to turn on Morgan--then kill her as well. The fact Wes pushed his own brother into the monument Walker, rather than buy into / help the cult had to convince Teddy that Alicia will be just as untrustworthy, so her fate--in his mind--may be sealed.

    It makes on wonder about the two cult henchmen seen earlier this season who were painting the side of the beached nuclear submarine....

    Althea: Sigh. Once again, Althea starts off being very useful in countering Riley's questions / uncovering Derek's book and back to obsession mode, when she risked her life (in the embalmed Walker room) to unmask a Walker dressed like her one-time romantic interest. Time was running out for their escape and she stopped to check that?

    Luciana:
    Thankfully, she had more to contribute to this episode, being a voice of experience of both the attacked refinery and her time with her original group, which she referred to as a cult. She still has potential to fulfill her initial set-up as a serious leader type--if only the showrunners do not continue to keep her around just because she's a familiar face.
    Morgan and Dakota: Morgan may have laid blame for Dakota's behavior (leading to killing Dorie) on Virginia, but he's still correct in not trusting her constant requests to help the group. I do not have any interest in a Dakota redemption arc, especially if she's shoehorned into committing some heroic act (like save Morgan or June--the two who still have the strongest reason to dislike her).

    NOTES:

    Largely solid character piece again with Wes finally getting more to do / good exploration of his relationship with his brother.

    GRADE: A.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  5. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You mind spoiler coding that until it airs for the rest of us tonight?
     
  6. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Just read your post and its no problem. :)
     
  7. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks.
    Do we have a specific board rule when it comes to seeing something early?
     
  8. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, we finally learn about The Beginning is the End people, they're a cult with some sort of long game vision about creating their own paradise, one where everyone is brainwashed into Teddy's belief system. And to really sell them as a threat, they've had fights with the CRM and have won, having captured a CRM soldier, killed her and have kept her walker. And apparently Morgan is known to these people and not held in high regard. Wes is reunited with his brother only to find out he's drunk the Kool-Aid and is a card-carrying cultist completely devoted to Teddy's vision. Eventually Alicia manages to set fire to the place, setting them back in their plan but leaving herself stuck with them, and Teddy meets her and begins trying to convert her.

    Not a bad episode, even if it is largely set-up, introducing a new threat which is different from the franchise's usual "we're pricks who want your stuff" routine. Will be interesting to see where this goes.

    Nitpick: Why did they let the CRM soldier walker wear her helmet? I mean, yes, it was a dramatic thing to make Al and the audience think she might be Isabel, but really, if they're going to keep a walker around, I would think you wouldn't want to leave its head protected, in case of an emergency requiring it to be put down quickly.
     
  9. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've watched the episode again, and believe Alicia being caught was a bit too contrived; she was at the door and had the matches ready to strike, so there was no reason for her to stand there and "dramatically" wait for the cultists to break into the room. If the showrunners needed a reason to give Alicia some new arc, painting her as stupid was not the way to start that.

    That begs the question: in WD franchise history, how many groups were all about stealing from their victims? As far as I can recall:
    Woodbury either took people in, or killed them, although the Governor's 2nd group were attempting to take the heroes' home (the prison).
    The Whisperers were all about being a zombie cult not particularly interested in material gain.
    Terminus...no explanation needed, and they only claimed items from those they were going to eat, not specifically going out to steal.
    Joe's "Claimed" gang took whatever they found, but were so nomadic that it was not their primary focus.
    The police and staff at Grady Memorial did not steal material items, just kidnapped people.
    Randall's gang (season two) were like Joe's Claimed gang, in that they were opportunist/murderers/rapists, but not about the "stuff" like The Saviors or Wolves.

    Probably for show--the entire outfit is a representation of the CRM, so they placed the helmet on it. About emergencies, well, up until this episode, Teddy's group successfully sewed the mouths of the walkers shut, and even if the CRM walker's mouth was not sewn shut, the helmet is going to stay in place unless someone screws with it (we saw that played out in TWD's 3rd season premiere, where the reanimated prison guards were roaming around, but their helmets were still in place).
     
  10. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We got some nice character development for Wes this week.
    I thought Derek seemed to turn on Teddy and his group pretty quickly, so I wasn't all surprised he was playing Wes and Co. It's a shame Wes ended up killing him though.
    Teddy's group is definitely creepy.
    I'm a little surprised the embalming process didn't have bigger effect on zombification.
    It was nice to get a bit more screen time Luciana, she hasn't really been around much the last couple seasons.
    Happy to see they're not just instantly making Dakota a part of the group. I'm curious to see where they are going to go with her now that Virginia is gone.
     
  11. The Habs Fan

    The Habs Fan Commodore Commodore

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    I really liked the whole concept of the End is the Beginning group. Very culty and their motivation seemed to make a twisted amount of sense. You could see how people who have been through a massive traumatic apocalyptic experience would react like this group and fall under the sway of a charismatic cult leader. Millions of people are in cults now and more people would be susceptible after living through what they did on this show.

    I saw a comment above about them somehow knowing who Morgan is. I think it was the first episode where Morgan is on the submarine and he leaves with a key. I believe they need this key to get something on the sub, quite possibly a nuclear weapon, which will “cleanse the earth” to suit their world view.
     
  12. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, really the way the scene played out they should have all escaped or all been captured. Then again, I recall reading online that Alycia Debnam Carey needed time off from filming, so this is likely just a contrived way to explain why Alicia's going to be absent for a few weeks.
    Indeed, I also liked her comment about being in a place like this before, as the way everyone worships Teddy is similar to how everyone at La Colonia in season 2 worshipped the guy in charge there.
     
    TREK_GOD_1 likes this.
  13. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Fear the Walking Dead
    Season 6 / Episode 12 - "In Dreams"


    Grace: Grace finds herself laying in a field (and no longer pregnant) where most of the various tree leaves are a sort of cerise pink (suggesting that she is dreaming). As a walker attacks her, she's saved by a teenage girl named Athena, who credits her fighting skill to her father. Grace cannot remember her own name, so Athena takes her to the dam settlement, where she's greeted by Athena's father--a white haired, older Morgan, who does not recognize her.

    Soon, Morgan accepts that Grace is the genuine article...but takes her to her own grave, learning she died not long after Athena's birth. Grace wonders what happened to her child,as she had been concerned (based on information she read) that a woman suffering from radiation exposure risked passing it on to the unborn child, who would not survive. Fortunately, the child--Athena--did survive.

    The settlement has expanded and is flourishing, and she sees familiar, but aged faces, such as Strand and Daniel, which surprises Grace with how friendly they are with each other. Dwight and Sherry now have two kids, while Doctor June Dorie and her apprentice--a now adult Charlie examine Grace.

    Walking through the forest with Old Morgan and Athena, Grace is informed that the teenager usually walks around with a cassette player, listening to songs and messages left by her mother--her only connection to the mother she never knew.

    Grace comes across a wrecked car spray painted with "THE END"--the work of "The End is the Beginning" cult. Grace recognizes this car as one she discovered as Morgan was taking her to the hospital June was building. The car explodes (rigged by the cult), disorienting Grace, who recovers to see present-day Morgan dissolve before her eyes, and finding herself in a loop of Athena killing a walker. Eventually Grace wakes up--back in the present; she lost consciousness after being caught in the car's explosion. Morgan manages to get her to safety in the vet's office of a horse stable, but she still slips in and out of her dream world, and as she suffers from contractions, in the dream state, she and Athena collapse, but Grace understands what's happening in reality. She's convinced her daughter will be born---if she comes out of the dream world.

    Riley and his men locate the stable, demanding the key--a mirror situation occurs in Grace's dream state, only Riley and his men are walkers. In both reality and the dream, Riley is defeated--his men killed. Morgan stabs Riley through the shoulder, and the psychopath runs off, promising that his group cannot be stopped.

    Athena tells Grace that the key she's always worn represents the "cost of peace", Grace falls dead, but revives to say goodbye to Old Morgan and Athena; in reality, Grace nearly stops breathing, eventually resuscitated by a grateful Morgan. Riley returns, threatening to shoot Grace is Morgan does not give him the key; Grace insists Morgan give it to him, forecasting that her child will be a part of future where men like Riley will not survive.

    Morgan delivers the baby, but the child is stillborn. Grace--in an inverse of what Old Morgan said about Athena's birth/Grace's death--understands that her child did absorb / suffer the effects of radiation poisoning. Both in tears, Grace reminds herself that the idea of her child surviving was just a dream.

    Morgan: In a sense, he feels the child's death as symbolic of a potential future lost as Grace does; he's already lost his son, and whatever hope he placed in helping to raise Grace's child is just another reminder of how their lives are walking a tightrope, with someone or something cutting it at both ends.

    Riley and The End is the Beginning group: Riley makes a good villain; he's one of those characters so dedicated to his BS, that he's easy to hate. How he survived such a deep wound is a miracle, but if he really makes it, we can safely predict he will want to run into Morgan again.

    NOTES:

    There were Christ symbolism/parallels to this episode--an expected birth of a child that will bring hope, and although the stable was not a manger, again, the symbolism was on the nose, only this time, there would be no successful birth, and in keeping with the almost universal message of the WD franchise, there's little to no hope.

    Althea--according to Old Morgan--is off "chasing the story" but he believed she was chasing after someone.

    Yet another stellar character piece with the flash-forward, and similar to TWD, where Carl had a dream of seeing an old Rick, Michonne, Negan, et al., which did not come true, Grace's own trauma-induced visions will never come to pass, capped off by tragedy.

    In her dream state, Grace is informed that Alicia, Wes and Luciana have started their own home--back at the stadium where Madison sacrificed herself. The fact this detail was added, along with Alicia staying behind to set a fire / buy her friends time in a manner similar to Madison could be hint that Alicia might leave to settle some of her obvious demons regarding her mother's death.

    GRADE: A.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  14. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Every Sunday the FTWD Instagram has been having a different cast member take over, and today was Karen David's turn. The other actors' stuff is still available in the regular posts and stories.
     
  15. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I've been a fan of Karen David going back to Galavant, one of my favorite shows, and she really knocked it out of the park with this one.
    I'm glad they didn't really try to make us think it was real, since it was pretty obvious she was dreaming right from the start.
    So they were after Morgan for the key. I hadn't totally forgotten about the sub with the nukes until they started talking about the key here.
    That was not the ending I was expecting, and it was heartbreaking.
     
  16. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Eh, I'm not really a fan of the whole alternate future reset at the end sort of thing, I know that's not an entirely accurate way to describe this episode since the future was supposed to be an obvious dream and there was much that actually does matter to the show's story arc here, such as Grace's character development, the loss of her baby and Riley finally getting the Key from Morgan. Still, half the episode being set in a dream didn't really sit well with me all the same. Though the ending was definitely unexpected and dark with the baby being stillborn. I really didn't think they'd go there.

    It does seem rather convenient with this being Grace's dream, she apparently knows a lot of details she shouldn't be aware of. Such as the stadium the Clark family lived in back in season 4 and Al keeping a secret about a person she knows. I guess there's no reason Grace couldn't have found out about the stadium, but since Al is keeping Isabel a secret and has only told Dwight about her, it does raise the question of how does Grace know about her, since I doubt she's had much interaction with Dwight, and even if they were chatting, I doubt Dwight is just casually revealing secrets he's been told in confidence.

    And though I'm not a fan of spending the episode in a dream, I did like how they made the dream future look, with all the vibrant color to offset the gloomy look of present day reality. That was neat.
     
  17. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A couple fun facts from Karen David's takeover, Dwight and Sherry's son was played by Austin Amelio's real life son, and the horse Grace and Athena rode was a mare named Pearl.
    I wonder who will do next week's Instagram takeover? It looks like the episode focuses on June, Dwight and Sherry, but we already got one for Jenna Elfman, so I'm assuming it'll probably be Austin Amelio or Christine Evangelista.
     
  18. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And we also have a clip from next week's episode.
     
  19. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This episode surprised me. I was fully expecting Grace to die, as we have had dream episodes which often ended in death.

    I didn't think it would be the baby. This was definitely tragic, though I am happy Karen David will still be around.


    so i guess stopping the Doomsday cult is the priority.

    But i wonder how they will tie -in the Civic Republic on fear with what we are seeing on World Beyond and The Rick movies (are they actually happening, or are they like the RObotech Live Action movie?)?
     
  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    According to Andrew Lincoln, the first is due to begin filming sometime this spring.