Fear the Walking Dead Season 4 discussion and spoilers.

[TREK_GOD_1]

Fear the Walking Dead--
"...I Lose Myself" - Season four finale

Morgan: Too much of a Savior complex. No amount of empathy would make Martha worth saving. His promising to meet the others at Alexandria was a good tease, but 20 minutes in, the idea of a series merger faded quickly.

Martha serving as Morgan's "inner voice" was pointless, but then again, Gimple and the rest of the showrunners cannot leave Morgan's "Clear" period behind. They are on that one-note characterization as they don't know what to do with Morgan anymore--or, they believe the "will he / won't he" will bait audiences into sticking around.

Not buying Martha spiking the water bottles with anti-freeze, as its not tasteless, and someone should have detected something about it early on. Moreover, there was no way for her to spike all of the bottles still in the shipping shrink wrap. One taste should have tipped them off, and the loose bottles tossed. Bad Plotting for Convenient Dilemmas.
.
Althea: Oh, come on--the camera battery should have drained by now, since there's no hint that the news van was recently abandoned.

Not shooting Martha? She knew the woman was crazy and a killer, so why waste time questioning her? Its times like this where the series needs a writer willing to go to the Shane response instead of forcing more Bad Plotting for Convenient Dilemmas.

Season wrap up: The new writers and producers thought cleaning house in exchange for fan favorite Morgan was the answer. Wrongheaded, as they killed off Kim Dickens' Madison when she became a likeable character, and with her death, the one anchor of the series was lost, and her absence is felt--and not for the right, in-series reasons. With actor Frank Dillane (Nick), it did not matter, as he had been publically groaning about wanting to leave FTWD since last season, so Nick's death was expected, and felt like the actor getting his way out, rather than a believable part of the plot.

Alicia should have been written to be a leader in the making since season two, but it was always a case of her stepping up--then pulling back for no apparent reason. Some fans thought that was due to her mother being the leader, but I'm not sure I buy that.

The group staying at the old denim factory and looking for others....I don't know where that's going, but I'm hoping its not a version of TWD's coming "trouble from within" where new groups never fall in line and/or seek to topple the existing leadership.

 

[crookeddy]

This was a good season, but it wasn't a good season of the Walking Dead. This isn't supposed to be the kind of show where beer saves people... Having said that, I was beginning to drown in the darkness, so maybe it's a good idea to step into the light... I still want the shows to merge eventually as we had toward some kind of conclusion, but I am not convinced that we will ever see any kind of conclusion...

 

[The Wormhole]

So, as I predicted despite talk of returning to Alexandria in the mid season premiere, Morgan has decided his place is in Texas with his new friends and they are now moving into a factory to be a defensible location. There wasn't really much story to Filthy Martha and they more or less covered all the basics. Normal person turned crazy and murderous because of a personal tragedy who ends up dead. The similarities they tried to set up between her and Morgan ultimately didn't amount to much.

This half of the season didn't really do much for me, mostly because the show's cast has just been completely redone, but rather than get to know the new cast as a group we already split them up and have them do their own thing before reuniting them for a finale, which ultimately is all of them lounging around on death's doorstep while Morgan does some small scale character stuff with the vaguely defined threat of this half season.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well, I wasn't quite right about beer curing the Zombie Virus, but at least it did save everyone from the antifreeze poisoning. Too bad Beer Boy didn't live to see that he saved everyone's life.

That was indeed a nice and satisfying ending to the season. It was almost as if the producers were hedging their bets in case cancellation came their way-- though I find that hard to believe as the show is still getting good ratings by cable standards (and probably network standards, these days), even if it's not doing as well as Regular Walking Dead. But after all the major deaths this year, I was glad that there were no token demises at the last minute. Crazy Zombie Lady was the closest thing to a Big Bad in the second half, and she served more as a catalyst to focus Morgan and, by extension, bring cohesion to the group.

It was just a little far-fetched that the group was not able to use the ethanol from the truck after Alex machine-gunned it. That liquid would have continued dripping for hours, plenty long enough to collect it in bottles-- or even to lay under it. But it set up Morgan's arrival and brainstorm and Beer Guy's posthumous act of heroism.

There were a few nice bits in the episode. Alex spending what she thought were her last moments watching videos of her own family. Strand musing that he had just stopped drinking himself to death only to inadvertently drink himself to death. And the kid happily putting away some beer, while being gently admonished by John.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year at the Denim Factory (and everyone please note that Truck Lady called them "dungarees" B) ). Come to think of it, that's two acts of heroism in this episode based on the actions of dead men-- a good message that, despite Shakespeare, the good that we do can live on after us.

 

[crookeddy]

What do we think about the total tonal shift? Is a walking dead show still a walking dead show if the good guys don't all die? If the message is something other than "no good deed goes unpunished"?

 

[Tom]

It was just a little far-fetched that the group was not able to use the ethanol from the truck after Alex machine-gunned it. That liquid would have continued dripping for hours, plenty long enough to collect it in bottles-- or even to lay under it. But it set up Morgan's arrival and brainstorm and Beer Guy's posthumous act of heroism.

Yes, this took me right out of the story, just collect a little bit of it that was coming out of the holes, that would have been more than enough, also i'm sure there would have been some at the very bottom of the tank (since the bullet holes were higher than the bottom).

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Too bad Beer Boy didn't live to see that he saved everyone's life.

Beer Boy was a pointless character created for...? The trend of independent beer makers is wearing out its welcome in the real world (despite new brew shops popping up on every corner), so why was such a character added to the series? He was a cowardly whiner and died like one, so the pure coincidence of his truck just so happening to be on Morgan's path and his allies being so dumb that they could not use other containers to catch the running ethanol was all BS just to make the pointless Beer Boy a hero, as you pointed out.

though I find that hard to believe as the show is still getting good ratings by cable standards (and probably network standards, these days), even if it's not doing as well as Regular Walking Dead.

I will dig up the finale ratings, but I camnot see this lasting beyond another season (heh..i've said that for the past two seasons) just being TWD: Southwest Style, where another psychopath loner or group cause trouble, a couple of "shock" deaths are tossed in along the way, and someone else has to make a life changing decision.

The pre-series pitch was that FTWD was going to be a "different" WD, but all it really meant was a dumping of heavy handed sociopolitical sub plots that were more political party advertising than a natural, series-progressive part of the story. What is left to offer aside from more of the same...without Madison at the moment she developed into an interesting character?

 

[crookeddy]

Ratings went up again for the finale. That's a fourth straight week of ratings increases. Seems people like the new, sillier, happen time, where saying something ethical is not an instant harbinger of death. And that is the new difference with the parent show, though we'll see if the parent show changes too.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Seems people like the new, sillier, happen time, where saying something ethical is not an instant harbinger of death. And that is the new difference with the parent show, though we'll see if the parent show changes too.

I'm guessing TWD-season 9 will not have Rick or Maggie go out saying or behaving in any unethical way...unless Maggie is turned into a semi-villain and causes Rick's death / reason for leaving, etc.

 

[RJDiogenes]

What do we think about the total tonal shift? Is a walking dead show still a walking dead show if the good guys don't all die? If the message is something other than "no good deed goes unpunished"?

In general, I don't see why the ZA genre can't have the full spectrum of tones, from tragedy to comedy, from bleak to optimistic. This particular franchise? We'll see. I think there has to be some measure of hope to keep characters motivated and the audience interested over the long term.

Yes, this took me right out of the story, just collect a little bit of it that was coming out of the holes, that would have been more than enough, also i'm sure there would have been some at the very bottom of the tank (since the bullet holes were higher than the bottom).

Good point. They could have shot another hole at the very bottom and let the rest leak out into a container.

Beer Boy was a pointless character created for...? The trend of independent beer makers is wearing out its welcome in the real world (despite new brew shops popping up on every corner), so why was such a character added to the series? He was a cowardly whiner and died like one, so the pure coincidence of his truck just so happening to be on Morgan's path and his allies being so dumb that they could not use other containers to catch the running ethanol was all BS just to make the pointless Beer Boy a hero, as you pointed out.

The ethanol truck mishap was way too contrived, yes, but I liked Beer Boy's character. There's no reason that a character like that wouldn't be able to survive a couple of years into the ZA and he added some color and variety to the mix. I loved his fervent proselytizing on the importance of beer to human civilization.

Ratings went up again for the finale.

Good news.

That's a fourth straight week of ratings increases. Seems people like the new, sillier, happen time, where saying something ethical is not an instant harbinger of death. And that is the new difference with the parent show, though we'll see if the parent show changes too.

Well, it's still a pretty dangerous Apocalypse as Madison and Nick will attest-- or would, if they were alive (though I still think it's possible that Madison is alive). But I think the current group under Morgan's shaky, but zen-like, supervision is an appealing mix.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The ethanol truck mishap was way too contrived, yes, but I liked Beer Boy's character. There's no reason that a character like that wouldn't be able to survive a couple of years into the ZA and he added some color and variety to the mix. I loved his fervent proselytizing on the importance of beer to human civilization.

Considering how TWD painted the ZA's early days/months in seasons 1-2, I cannot see Beer Boy surviving this long, even if living with more capable members. Eventually, weaker people had to pull their own weight, and he admitted he never had any experience dealing with walkers. Huh?!? There's no way he would have survived that long. Even Eugene learned to fight ("No Way Out"), because he would not always have Abraham around to protect him, and that was a point of realistic growth. Beer Boy was just dropped into the show, but his overdoing the "I'm a sarcastic twit, but I think that's cool / chamming" bit just made him annoying.

Well, it's still a pretty dangerous Apocalypse as Madison and Nick will attest-- or would, if they were alive (though I still think it's possible that Madison is alive). But I think the current group under Morgan's shaky, but zen-like, supervision is an appealing mix.

What purpose would it serve to have Madison live? She put her own kids in a psychological blender set on "wreck" by sacrificing herself in front of them, and to have her come back would pretty much crap on that & any additional drama from Alicia and Nick in its aftermath.

 

[Noname Given]

I'm guessing TWD-season 9 will not have Rick or Maggie go out saying or behaving in any unethical way...unless Maggie is turned into a semi-villain and causes Rick's death / reason for leaving, etc.

Bah - I hope she marries Neegan in the end, and they have the Anti-Rick (or even Anti-Glen)

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Wasn't there an interview with Gimple a few weeks ago saying that The Walking Dead still has decades of life to it? I seem to remember him saying there might be spinoffs set in other countries to see the ZA from their point of view. The reason I bring this up is, we're not sure how Rick Grimes is going to be written out The Walking Dead. All we know is that Andrew Lincoln is wanting to go back to England to be with his family. Is it possible they're going to have Rick cross the Atlantic and have him be the lead in a Walking Dead: Great Britain spinoff? It'd be a win-win for AMC. People are obviously going to keep tuning in to the parent show no matter how shitty it gets, and they can use Rick Grimes as the lead in the spinoff to get viewers to watch it too. As a bonus, Lincoln gets to be with his family

As for The Walking Dead, I'm giving it a couple of episodes to see if there is actually any difference in quality with Angela Kang in charge. I loved the feel of the comics after they rebuilt Alexandria and went to horse and buggies and hope they can capture that feel in the show.

 

[crookeddy]

People are obviously going to keep tuning in to the parent show no matter how shitty it gets

Not obvious at all! The show had a ratings free-fall once Negan appeared. The thing is the show was so popular that even after losing 11 million viewers, it's still one of the most popular shows on cable. Another loss of a similar percentage though would put it right on the bubble.

EDIT: The season finale was the highest rated episode in 6 weeks for TWD, so it seems that people are willing to come back once in a while to see if the show is improving.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

^ Casual viewers have already dropped off. I'm talking about the hardcore fanbase.

 

[crookeddy]

^ Casual viewers have already dropped off. I'm talking about the hardcore fanbase.

Wow, TWD has a gigantic hardcore fanbase then! Still over 7 million watch LIVE, which is insane in this day and age.

EDIT: just checked - TWD was the most watched show (including broadcast) in the 18-49 until Roseanne took the crown in 2017. Now that Roseanne is gone, it might once again be the most watched show. That is CRAZY.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

All I'm saying is if seven million tuned in for the shitshow Gimple put out between season 7 and 8, I don't see them dropping out anytime soon.

 

[crookeddy]

Yeah but I think the trend is just as important as the numbers. The 7.92 million who watched the finale of season 8 are a lot smaller than the 11.31 who watched the end of season 7, and season 8 was supposed to feature one of the most popular villains. If 9 follows the downward trend, they'll probably have to start talking about wrapping the show up.

Which is what I am hoping for, because a never ending apocalypse with a revolving cast of characters really isn't that interesting to me.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I tuned out halfway through season eight after being hyped up for the war having read the comics. The problem is, episode after episode with idiots with unlimited ammo codes shooting at each other non-stop with accuracy so bad a stormtrooper would shake his head was just fucking boring. On top of that, you had leaders who should know better (Rick) constantly making stupid decisions (trusting the Garbage Pail Kids, who've betrayed him multiple times). Jeffrey Dean Morgan's Negan was way more interesting than Rick's group too, so I found myself rooting for the bad guy who was barely in the show (maybe one episode out of four or five). I'm really hoping with Gimple out of the pilot's seat and Kang in command the show will turn around.

I also agree it's time to put an endgame in place to wrap this show up in the next couple of years. I'd love to see this show go out with a bang instead of the whimper of cancellation.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Bah - I hope she marries Neegan in the end, and they have the Anti-Rick (or even Anti-Glen)

That would cause a bigger riot than the threats about Daryl being killed off. "How dare she screw the man who killed her husband!!"

Wow, TWD has a gigantic hardcore fanbase then! Still over 7 million watch LIVE, which is insane in this day and age.

I wonder what its numbers are compared to other TV fantasy series.

EDIT: just checked - TWD was the most watched show (including broadcast) in the 18-49 until Roseanne took the crown in 2017. Now that Roseanne is gone, it might once again be the most watched show. That is CRAZY.

Ah, well, there's no other fantasy series pulling in that kind of audience, I imagine.