Fear the Walking Dead Season 4 discussion and spoilers.

[TREK_GOD_1]

Or, due to the idiotic storytelling plaguing the show, how much do you want to bet we'll find out that *GASP* Madison has become the leader of the Vultures in a shocking flashforward of a flashback of a flashback flashing forward

Or, she was working with the Vultures to begin with, getting the stadium ready to be ransacked

I could see either option happening--certainly more than Madison being killed off. That would only be on on the table if the series was going to end in season five, and not conclude with some sort of hope similar to what fans expect from the series finale of TWD (whenever that happens).

 

[Morpheus 02]

How bad have the ratings been? Compared to not just the original but other shows?

Will it make it? Was Morgan the shows last best hope?

 

[crookeddy]

How bad have the ratings been? Compared to not just the original but other shows?

Will it make it? Was Morgan the shows last best hope?

Ratings are way lower than the parent show but still very good for cable.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Fear the Walking Dead--
"No One's Gone" - Mid Season Finale

Madison: Its suggested that she sacrificed herself in the stadium fire, but something tells me she's hoping her theory of making the others rely on people instead of the idea of a sanctuary comes through, and in that moment, she realized the only way to do that--as reckless at it appeared--was to separate herself from the others. Something tells me things will either go south again, and someone will either shadow the group, helping, or show up at the end of 4B or start of 5A (if there is a 5A), possibly with a character not seen on the show in a while.

Alicia, Strand and Luciana: Yes, they believe Naomi, Morgan, Althea and John were Vulture associates, but their relentless quest to kill seems pointless and single-minded to ridiculous degrees, since the tables can turn on them at any moment.

John Dorie: Nice that his "last words" were for Morgan and Charlie to stop running.

Naomi: ...or June.

Althea: In the earliest flashback (between seasons 3 and 4) she meets Madison while searching for a sanctuary. Although Madison makes it clear she's aiming a gun at her, Althea still cops an attitude? What lone person (who is not absolutely deadly as a lone fighter like Michonne and Morgan) gives a potential threat more reasons to kill? At least Madison knocked her on her ass.

"You're gonna tell me your story?" Come on. Would anyone tolerate that crap, especially after someone believed their kids could be lost and/or dead?

Morgan: Some WD fans were tired of Morgan's peacenik / looney act, but it worked here with Alicia, since longtime viewers understood his subtle references to losing people and coming back from being in the killer mindset.

Mel / Charlie / Vultures: I've said it before, but the Vultures were the weakest villains on WD series to date. Just a means to an end. Nothing more. We will see how long Charlie lasts; I say this because children do not have good track record in this franchise.

NOTES:
In an attempt to keep selling Althea's "importance" as a videographer (yeah, right), the showrunners used the awful expositional gimmick of "getting everyone's story" when its just incredibly unrealistic (even on a zombie show) for any of the traumatized main characters to even think of putting up with someone playing reporter.

 

[137th Gebirg]

This one was definitely better than last week. One of the biggest rules in serial TV is that a character is never truly "dead" unless we see the body, like Nick actually going into the grave. There is a slim chance that Madison somehow escaped through the fire, although they certainly demonstrated that she's most likely gone.

One question I've had since the start of the season is, where the hell is Daniel??? Last we saw him he was blowing away Proctor John's bikers like a Terminator and got Nick off the dam before it collapsed. There hasn't been a single reference to him by anyone, not even Nick whose life he technically saved! Very strange...and disappointing, because I really liked the character and hoped he had a continuing role.

 

[Morpheus 02]

I am on a phone so I can't easily reply to Trek God's points...but a few quick thoughts...

For me this season's narrative style actually makes sense and was effective for me. The Ally and Madison meeting made me think at first that Madison had indeed survived and caught up with Ally AFTER Morgan and crew were left behind. So it worked for me

Also, the characters acting like homicidal maniacs made a whole lot of sense...though it could have been totally avpided had Madison gave het real name and mentioned Nick and Alicia

It is interesting that Fear was first advertised as a family sticking together for survival
.. Now it is only one. Alicia to me seemed like the weakest written character. Hopefully we will see some growth
Morgan really hit well with how he tried to help Nick and I think their relationship will grow well.

Glad John is still around.

My one thing...I wish Tobia came back to be reunited with Madison and thank her for helping him at the beginning. #where IsTobias?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

This one was definitely better than last week. One of the biggest rules in serial TV is that a character is never truly "dead" unless we see the body, like Nick actually going into the grave. There is a slim chance that Madison somehow escaped through the fire, although they certainly demonstrated that she's most likely gone.

You would think the "not dead until you see the body" would play into this episode-- I did having not paid attention to any media coverage before the finale aired. That, and recalling the TWD franchise history's love of fakeout deaths:

• Daniel stood in the middle of that burning cellar with walkers closing in on him, but he survived.
• The Governor was trapped in a building, surrounded by walkers, out of ammo and still survived
• Glenn appearing to be ripped apart by walkers, until the dumpster bit.

...but Kim Dickens has said Madison is dead, and she's moving on to a Deadwood revival on HBO, so that pretty much tosses any other death fakeout history out of the window.

One question I've had since the start of the season is, where the hell is Daniel??? Last we saw him he was blowing away Proctor John's bikers like a Terminator and got Nick off the dam before it collapsed. There hasn't been a single reference to him by anyone, not even Nick whose life he technically saved! Very strange...and disappointing, because I really liked the character and hoped he had a continuing role.

The problem with Daniel is that he has a hate bug up his ass about Strand. No matter what was going on, his hatred of Strand always took center stage. If the series was realistic in how humans behave, Daniel would show up, start his Strand-hate-a-thon again, only for Strand (after losing Madison, a tragedy that has to weigh on him for some time) to finish him off, as he would not stand for some fool still obsessing on imagined wrongs he had nothing to do with (like his daughter's choices and death) while he's suffering.

 

[The Wormhole]

Al's fixation on filming everything really is becoming stupid. She wastes time making sure Charlie knows how to use the camera to film her while she tries to save John's life. I mean, come on! I would think missing footage of saving someone's life would be a lot more important than filming their preventable death. But, what do I know?

One question I've had since the start of the season is, where the hell is Daniel??? Last we saw him he was blowing away Proctor John's bikers like a Terminator and got Nick off the dam before it collapsed.

The producers claim he's still alive, but the actors claim he hasn't been on set during filming. A personal theory I've had is maybe he's going to show up on Walking Dead somehow. Maybe he hooked up with whoever's flying that mysterious helicopter throughout season 8?

but Kim Dickens has said Madison is dead, and she's moving on to a Deadwood revival on HBO, so that pretty much tosses any other death fakeout history out of the window.

Also, they listed her death in Talking Dead's In Memoriam montage, which has in the past always been accurate when it comes to confirming deaths of characters. Most notably, they did not list Glenn in the montage back when we had the fake-out in season 6 with him and the dumpster.

I wonder though, who is now this show's lead? Alycia Debnam-Carey is the next one in the credits after Kim Dickens, though this season this show really has started to feel like a Morgan spin-off. Of course, we might still have a few flashback scenes involving Madison in the second half of the season, so they could leave Kim Dickens in the credits for the rest of the season.

 

[Tom]

The whole series is petty much being rebuilt, after loosing Travis, Nick and now Madison, it is a completely different show from when it started.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Fear the Walking Dead--
"No One's Gone" - Mid Season Finale

Madison: Its suggested that she sacrificed herself in the stadium fire, but something tells me she's hoping her theory of making the others rely on people instead of the idea of a sanctuary comes through, and in that moment, she realized the only way to do that--as reckless at it appeared--was to separate herself from the others. Something tells me things will either go south again, and someone will either shadow the group, helping, or show up at the end of 4B or start of 5A (if there is a 5A), possibly with a character not seen on the show in a while.

Hopefully Tobias

Alicia, Strand and Luciana: Yes, they believe Naomi, Morgan, Althea and John were Vulture associates, but their relentless quest to kill seems pointless and single-minded to ridiculous degrees, since the tables can turn on them at any moment.

​

Yeah, I agree...but I think also made sense for the storyline (I..e Madison dying). Hopefully this will be all cleared up.
​

John Dorie: Nice that his "last words" were for Morgan and Charlie to stop running.

​

And in about 45 seconds, still one of the most powerful characters on the show
​

Naomi: ...or June.

​

So what name will she have next season?
​

Althea:

In the earliest flashback (between seasons 3 and 4) she meets Madison while searching for a sanctuary. Although Madison makes it clear she's aiming a gun at her, Althea still cops an attitude? What lone person (who is not absolutely deadly as a lone fighter like Michonne and Morgan) gives a potential threat more reasons to kill? At least Madison knocked her on her ass.

"You're gonna tell me your story?" Come on. Would anyone tolerate that crap, especially after someone believed their kids could be lost and/or dead?

​

Well, as far as crazy obessions go...more unique than a villain's usual motivation
​

Morgan: Some WD fans were tired of Morgan's peacenik / looney act, but it worked here with Alicia, since longtime viewers understood his subtle references to losing people and coming back from being in the killer mindset.

​

Yeah..it will be interesting how their relationship grows over time, especially in light of him trying to help Nick
​

Mel / Charlie / Vultures:

I've said it before, but the Vultures were the weakest villains on WD series to date. Just a means to an end. Nothing more. We will see how long Charlie lasts; I say this because children do not have good track record in this franchise.

​

Well..they are Vultures. Their main method *IS* pretty weak. They just wait for people to die and pick up the pieces. It's a little more unique than other villains...and at least they weren't TRYING to kill people...they just have gotten into a rut which evidently has happened several times before.
​

NOTES:
In an attempt to keep selling Althea's "importance" as a videographer (yeah, right), the showrunners used the awful expositional gimmick of "getting everyone's story" when its just incredibly unrealistic (even on a zombie show) for any of the traumatized main characters to even think of putting up with someone playing reporter.

[/quote]
I thought it was pretty effective for THIS PARTICULAR storyline. And I mean, this gives Althea a purpose to live, rather than just exist. ALso, Talking Dead pointed out that the names that were shown have significance. The one they mentioned was Abraham and the Doctor. So perhaps a cameo in the future???

Also, any other Walking Dead characters that could potentially appear? It's too bad they literally wasted Morales. He would have been a good fit.
​

The whole series is petty much being rebuilt, after loosing Travis, Nick and now Madison, it is a completely different show from when it started.

i think that is for the better.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Man, Kim Dickens is doing exit interviews and it seems clear she was officially written out and won't be coming back. Agreed with @Tom above...this show is completely different now.

Fear was good conceptually the first two seasons when it wasn't being too similar to TWD, and really REALLY found their footing in season 3 with the way it was telling its story, and the type of stories it told.. about realistic characters who sometimes did stupid or questionable things, but they felt like REAL decisions based on personality and situation. But now the story of 'family' has been torn down piece by piece, character by character, and transformed the show into TWD: Texas, with a mismatched group of people who make dumb decisions for the sake of a dumb plot.

There wasn't anything wrong with last night's episode. I actually really liked it for what it was. It was written nicely, directed beautifully, and the performances were great. But as the fourth season to a show that I had such high hopes for at the beginning, to have those hopes finally met in season three (and honestly WELL surpassed), to be taken over by a new creative regime who I personally blame for the poor quality of TWD, I feel like I lost a great show.

I liked Fear because it was focused on 2.5 families and the interactions between the characters was much different than the motley crews of TWD. I really liked that the number of families was reduced to one by season 3, because that journey of loss was embedded in the remaining characters, and it kept a razor sharp focus on their development. Now, having all those families gone save for Alicia and to a much lesser extent, Strand and Luci (who we didn't even get to find out how they found her! Other than, hey, Nick found her!) feels wrong.

They should have just spun Morgan onto his own show where he, John, and Al go around getting people's stories and left Fear the hell alone. Honestly, you could have plugged in a brand new group of characters in the Clark's place, and told the EXACT same story, and I feel like it would have been more satisfying. Those characters wouldn't have to be weighed down by the unsatisfying conclusion of their previous story threads. Seeing the warm BEFORE scenes against the colorless NOW scenes would have made more sense with new characters because we didn't earn that warm status quo with the Clarks. I actually like the format of season 4 in retrospect, but using the original Fear characters as it's start-point leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Season 4 would have made a GREAT season 1 of a different show.

These new showrunners basically said, 'Great we have a platform to create a Walking Dead show with our own characters! I can't wait to clean house and completely toss aside everything they were doing beforehand!' I feel like we're getting a fourth season of TNG where Welsey is a security officer on board the USS Hood along with Mot the Barber and Guinan running the ship's gift shop and their primary mission is to patrol the Kuiper Belt.

I wanted to see Madison transformed into a villain, dammit.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I'm glad they decided to not kill off John Dorie. Looks like I'll be sticking around, after all! I'm really hoping since we're caught up with the flashbacks there won't be so goddamn many of them in the second part of season four (which looks like an odd change of pace, from the trailer)

 

[crookeddy]

Hopefully Tobias

Yeah, I agree...but I think also made sense for the storyline (I..e Madison dying). Hopefully this will be all cleared up.


And in about 45 seconds, still one of the most powerful characters on the show


So what name will she have next season?


Well, as far as crazy obessions go...more unique than a villain's usual motivation


Yeah..it will be interesting how their relationship grows over time, especially in light of him trying to help Nick


Well..they are Vultures. Their main method *IS* pretty weak. They just wait for people to die and pick up the pieces. It's a little more unique than other villains...and at least they weren't TRYING to kill people...they just have gotten into a rut which evidently has happened several times before.

​

[/QUOTE]

I thought it was pretty effective for THIS PARTICULAR storyline. And I mean, this gives Althea a purpose to live, rather than just exist. ALso, Talking Dead pointed out that the names that were shown have significance. The one they mentioned was Abraham and the Doctor. So perhaps a cameo in the future???

Also, any other Walking Dead characters that could potentially appear? It's too bad they literally wasted Morales. He would have been a good fit.
​

[/QUOTE]
What happened with this post

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Hopefully Tobias

Oh, you mean there's another flashback where we discover the Clarks turned Tobias into human jerky to survive before they learned how to grow crops?

Yeah..it will be interesting how their relationship grows over time, especially in light of him trying to help Nick

Hopefully, enough time for Morgan to "fix" Alicia, then she decides how to move forward, without the killer one day / "I cant do this anymore" of Morgan and Carol over the past few WD seasons.

Also, any other Walking Dead characters that could potentially appear? It's too bad they literally wasted Morales. He would have been a good fit.

But Morales--one of the original characters--turning evil made fair example of how the ZA world has turned even the most mild mannered person into a self-serving predator, and (apparently) lacked the main characters' inner struggle to remain human right at the moment the Negan conflict was pushing them in the same direction.

Man, Kim Dicken's is doing exit interviews and it seems clear she was officially written out and won't be coming back. Agreed with above...this show is completely different now.

The terrible, or predictable thing was that Madison was transformed from murder machine to caring mother, only to be killed off. Once again, the WD universe tells the audience that hope=death.​

..or reinforces the fact that shock deaths are stunt deaths. Unless the survivors take something from Madison more than, "she believed in a dream / home", she would leave no legacy. It will just be another hollow death like Abraham or Denise--a shock for the moment.

They should have just spun Morgan onto his own show where he, John, and Al go around getting people's stories and left Fear the hell alone. Honestly, you could have plugged in a brand new group of characters in the Clark's place, and told the EXACT same story, and I feel like it would have been more satisfying. Those characters wouldn't have to be weighed down by the unsatisfying conclusion of their previous story threads. Seeing the warm BEFORE scenes against the colorless NOW scenes would have made more sense with new characters because we didn't earn that warm status quo with the Clarks. I actually like the format of season 4 in retrospect, but using the original Fear characters as it's start-point leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Season 4 would have made a GREAT season 1 of a different show.

Essentially, you're sort of saying FTWD never had well structured characters that could sustain a series on their own, hence the addition of one major outsider (Morgan) and new, strong characters. Perhaps that was the inherent flaw of FTWD: Kirkman and others wanted to experiment with concepts and characters that would never fly on the parent series (and that has been recognized about FTWD), but the experiment ended up with characters who struggled to be appealing, and by the time the series ran long enough to hook viewers, it was not enough.

Enter fan favorite Morgan, and something tells me that the showrunners felt Morgan and Madison would not work off of each other--I'm guessing that on paper, their dynamic did not seem to be there,assuming the characters ever had a face to face, Morgan fits in as the "wise man" type with characters like Nick and Alicia, but I think there would be conflict with Madison, probably worse than his issues with Rick's moral flip-flopping, and above all else, that's a retread few fans want to see in FTWD.

I wanted to see Madison transformed into a villain, dammit.

She was pretty villainous all throughout season 3. I preferred the settled, nicer version.

 

[RPOW0614]

The Madison and Nick stories had gotten stale and I am glad to see them go. I didn't mind the story being told with the present and past flash forward\backward style. I liked the quick montage of the events at the stadium instead of another long drawn out battle.
I am very happy that June\Laura\Naomi\Dharma and John (not the fish) Dorie lived. I have enjoyed their arrival and stories more than most of the previous people and stories. But I have liked Garret and Jenna as actors for some time now.
I am excited by the news that Deadwood is getting a movie.

 

[Tom]

The mid-season finale could have been the end of the show. By the end of the episode everyone was getting along, the Vultures were pretty much gone, they killed off 2 of the main leads, there were no cliffhangers. So can we expect the show to now go in a fresh direction for 4B? Could there be a time jump to match TWD's time jump? I am also hoping this is the end of the multiple timeline format for now.

 

[The Wormhole]

Could there be a time jump to match TWD's time jump?

The preview shown during the end credits doesn't show anyone looking any older or different.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Which time jump?
Fear ended AT LEAST several weeks AFTEr the TWD finale (however long it took Morgan to head to Texas... Didn't it take Eugene like a year to get to DC??)

Not sure when next season will start (in terms of the story)...but the 2 shows are close at this point

 

[Tom]

Yes right now Fear is a little ahead of TWD in the timeline, but the TWD is making a 1 to 2 year time jump for season 9, not sure if Fear will do something similar, although I find it unlikely since they just had a time jump of there own.

 

[The Wormhole]

Which time jump?
Fear ended AT LEAST several weeks AFTEr the TWD finale (however long it took Morgan to head to Texas... Didn't it take Eugene like a year to get to DC??)

Not sure when next season will start (in terms of the story)...but the 2 shows are close at this point

Spoiler: TWD comics and season 9

When the Negan War storyline ended in the comics, they jumped the story ahead about two years or so in the future. And based on Rick's look in season 9 filming photos which have leaked, not to mention the fact that there are now horse-drawn carriages, it does seem season 9 will do something very similar. If so, that would place Walking Dead at a later point in the timeline than Fear.