Fear the Walking Dead Season 4 discussion and spoilers.

You know, I shouldn't have to sketch out a fucking timeline to keep track of everything that happens at what time on a fucking TV show. This flashback/flashforward shit is getting really old. Just tell your fucking story and don't try to be "artistic" about it. It worked in Breaking Bad with the air traffic controller story arc, but that was one instance. Not. Every. God. Damn. Episode!

Edited in the form of The Walking Dead/Fear the Walking Dead: Every. Not. Damn. Episode. God!

 

The Walking Dead writers watched Westworld and thought they could do it too.

 

There's also WAY more talented writers on Westworld

 

To be honest, I'm getting tired of it in Westworld too.

 

And honestly, in the end Westworld wasn't very good at it either. It was pretty easy to pick up and it made am few story aspects come across as really disjointed unless you picked it up. I didn't care for it when all was said and done.

 

I am not a fan of non linear storytelling either. At least in Westworld there is a narrative reason for it (slightly forced, but still)

 

Fear the Walking Dead--
"Laura"

John Dorie: Like "Live Bait" & "Dead Weight" for the Governor (TWD - S4) or "Here's Not Here" for Morgan (TWD - S6), in "Laura", here's another WD universe story where we get a look back into some critical moment leading to the present day version of the character, and while it adds some dimension to Dorie, the hour seemed to be stretched out.

 

I enjoyed this episode a lot. John and Laura's story was a nice piece of end-of-world romance delivered much better than other Walking Dead universe hamfisted loves stories. I haven't been happy with how this season has handled its time jump and completely changed focus, handwaving all the old story threads away... but I'm starting to feel myself letting go of that and enjoying the show for what it is now. This was a good episode for walker fighting and realistic and poignant character writing. The show has this looming sadness covering it now... seeing Nick in the past and building up to what is really starting to look like the end of Madison.

I hope if that is the route they go, they at least give Madison some more to do before she goes out. I'm really missing her as the main character of the show. This time-jump Madison we've been presented feels pretty generic good-willed leader. I'd like them the fill the characterization gap between season 3 and 4 a little bit better than Alicia's 'I wanted to be alone and then decided that I didn't' hand-wave to explain her return to the family.

 

Honestly I am glad we haven't seen much of Madison but expect her flashback to fill it in.

I really liked this episode...interesting that Jenna Elfman and Maggie Grace played characters that annoyed me but in Fearvi am intrigued...my wife and I were a bit annoyed at Naomi/Laura...but made some sense at the end.


So did John just leave to find her...or was he driven out?

 

I whole-heartedly believe that John went in search for Laura/Naomi that same day. He's just that type of dude, and I love him.

 

The time jumps back to the vultures is a deliberate tease of bad things to come, but I would be shocked if Madison was killed off. The showrunners have invested too much into Madison being the "badass" of the zombie apocalypse, and characters like that are not killed off with any regularity in the AMC franchise.

 

I actually really enjoyed this episode. Garret Dillahunt is a great addition to the show and his character is infinitely more interesting than any other character on Fear/The Walking Dead. I loved his personality quirks like religiously cleaning his guns, even though he is staunchly opposed to using them and the fact he still signs out his videos he borrows, even though Bill is undoubtedly dead. His saving Laura at the end was pretty fucking badass, as is John's gun twirling.

I'm also wondering if Naomi is a Vulture, and she ducked out before Mel could find out about John Dorie's place.

Also, being a Walking Dead episode, it also had some stupid shit involved. How in the fuck did twenty or so walkers, who were pushing on the side of the Jeep, manage to roll the Jeep frontwards or backwards to open the hole again and fall in the river?

 

I really like the John Dorie character. Probably my favorite character on FTWD, I even like him better than a lot of the WD characters. Him being a pistoleer adds coolness points, and it was cool seeing John and Morgan having a bro moment.

Pretty bad it took 4 seasons before characters started getting interesting.

 

We liked the John & "Laura" episode.

 

I don't know I'd go that far. The first three seasons had Strand and Salazar. Granted, by the third season both characters were getting played out, but they were still the highlights of the show.

I will agree that John Dorie is something of a breath of fresh air in that he is a unique character to this franchise in that he is completely likable without much of a dark side and still has surviving skills that make him a total badass. In a way, I kind of wish they had instead launched a Morgan centric spin-off, with him and John travelling post zombie apocalypse America fighting walkers and douchebags, helping the needy and dealing with their own personal problems, with Al along to document everything.

 

I agree that Strand is an interesting character, but I don't feel they've given him much to work with. I loved the idea of him ditching his lover to close some kind of deal in L.A. while the zombie apocalypse was underway, as was him talking to the Russian Cosmonaut, both of which led nowhere.

But John Dorie (especially teamed with Morgan) is such a refreshing change of pace. The Walking Dead, and, for the most part, Fear the Walking Dead has been an exercise in doom and gloom and no hope whatsoever for humankind. Just the idea of a gunslinger and a badass in the bo staff arts going cross country having adventures is fun to think about. There's no reason they can't have a fun show to compliment the starkness of The Walking Dead. I'm hoping that's what they're going for, phasing out some of the stupid characters making stupid decisions, and focusing on the more interesting characters going forward. Team up John with Morgan, Althea, Strand and Alicia (not hamstringed by the comics), and I think you have a recipe for success!

 

Seems to be visually inspired by the Terence Young film Red Sun (National General Pictures, 1971), where an Old West gun slinging outlaw (Charles Bronson) ends up partnering with a samurai (Toshiro Mifune), although Morgan and John do not have the deep differences of the film's duo.

I would trade Alicia for Luciana.

 

I definitely wouldn't complain if we had both

 

Fear the Walking Dead--
"Just in Case"

Madison and Strand: Her "I know who you are" to Strand sort of plays as Madison being a bad judge of character; even as she learned Strand was the one loading that van full of supplies / not being fully committed to the group, or so that's how he's being played this season.
The running theme of Madison enjoying drinking with Strand only has meaning if it goes somewhere as a point of some greater connection beyond using liquor as a way of letting off steam/issues. Madison and Strand seem unfit for anyone else (i.e. a relationship), so perhaps Madison realizes that and thinks they will end up together.

Naomi: Yet another WD character with some dark, sad secret (with an old group) that would be explored at some time in the future. This kind of basic character template has been used before, with Bob Stookey, Father Gabriel and Enid. Yes, having a terrible past (with some personal loss) in the zombie apocalypse might be common, but in a series with a tight group of characters, it comes off as rinse and repeat, no matter what kind of tragedy picture is painted for the character.

Strand / Luciana / Alicia: the entire thirst for revenge makes them foolish, when they know they are outnumbered. Moreover, Alicia shooting John Dorie was the biggest dumbass reaction of all. Why shoot John when it was Naomi driving the vehicle Alicia had stored away on Madison's orders?

Althea: Okay....in a stand off, she's still holding the camera. In the preview of next week's episode, she's still holding it as a firefight breaks out. That kind of idiotic, Diary of the Dead-type, obsessive character really breaks what realism the series is trying to build.

John Dorie: Shooting the Vulture's finger off--slick move.

Mel: More annoying than threatening.

NOTES: Two episodes left in 4A.

 

I feel like they;ve been tryign to retcon Madison into a great Rick-type leader....mmm.. not sure about that

Now, i am a bit confused. When Strand said Madison rescued him from drowining...was that the 1st time (season 1/2) or the 2nd time (between 3/4, presumably...since we never saw him going in water then)?

I think this particular one works because her "dark past" was clearly accidental, and needs redemption. I knowit seems like rinse and repeat...but in "real life" just about every "good" personw will still have a story like this

Shooting John was clearly accidental. Alicia meant to shoot Naomi, but John was clearly trying to protect her.

Now, if this results in his death, then they've sabotaged the "good" they have done with this show.

Well, i guess that's her schtick. But both Maggie Grace and Jenna Elfman have portrayed characters 10+ years ago that annoyed me. The ones they have now are much more mature and interesting...

Hopefully not the end...

Hmm... so we'll see ... i guess in 2 episodes we see what happens to Madison by "Now"