Fear the Walking Dead Season 4 discussion and spoilers.

[The Wormhole]

Moreover, Alicia shooting John Dorie was the biggest dumbass reaction of all. Why shoot John when it was Naomi driving the vehicle Alicia had stored away on Madison's orders?

According to Talking Dead, Naomi was Alicia's target, John in fact stepped in and took the bullet because love. I agree, it looks like he was shot intentionally the way it all played out on screen.

So what's our take on John's fate anyway? It feels too early to kill a new character they've invested a good chunk of time developing. On the other hand, he is a decent likable person and they can't last long in this universe.

 

[Morpheus 02]

According to Talking Dead, Naomi was Alicia's target, John in fact stepped in and took the bullet because love. I agree, it looks like he was shot intentionally the way it all played out on screen.

So what's our take on John's fate anyway? It feels too early to kill a new character they've invested a good chunk of time developing. On the other hand, he is a decent likable person and they can't last long in this universe.

And Talking Dead didn't make it seem like he was dead...certainly the preview John was still alive, but Naomi was headed to a place where he could recover (the FEMA facility?)

 

[JohnChod]

Naomi's daughter turns and everyone in the whole FEMA facility turns as well? Can someone explain to me exactly how that happens? Everyone else just said, 'Oh, come on and bite me!' or did they all sleep through the massacre? This is as sloppy and incomprehensible as the TWD massacre in the mansion at Hillside after the residents were turned by infected arrows and such.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Naomi's daughter turns and everyone in the whole FEMA facility turns as well? Can someone explain to me exactly how that happens? Everyone else just said, 'Oh, come on and bite me!' or did they all sleep through the massacre? This is as sloppy and incomprehensible as the TWD massacre in the mansion at Hillside after the residents were turned by infected arrows and such.

Well Producer Gale Anne Hurd said that this what Naomi believes, due to her actions and the timing. It is possible that others were infected and hid it, and turned at night , which caused a lot of chaos. Even if the Walkers didn't bite everyone, n such chaos, it is probable some people were killed accidentally, such as somone trying to shoot a walker but misses and shoots someone in the heart. I think they showed some of that chaos in an unshown scene concerning the Vatos from TWD season 1.

Naomi believed she was the sole cause. And as Hurd said, if you've already made up your mind, it is hard to dissuade you, even WITH the facts.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I feel like they;ve been tryign to retcon Madison into a great Rick-type leader....mmm.. not sure about that

Yes, they have turned her in to a more level-headed Madison, but I also feel that's just a set up to have her return to predatory Madison of old, sort of like Rick Grimes stopped being the "Ricktator" from the end of season 3 until the last quarter of 4B where he transformed into "kill first" in his protection of Carl. Personally, I prefer the new Madison, and hope she does not--after learning of her son's murder--just give the middle finger to normalcy and its take-no-prisoners all over again.

Now, i am a bit confused. When Strand said Madison rescued him from drowining...was that the 1st time (season 1/2) or the 2nd time (between 3/4, presumably...since we never saw him going in water then)?

I think he's referring to the unseen aftermath of season 3's finale.

Shooting John was clearly accidental. Alicia meant to shoot Naomi, but John was clearly trying to protect her.

Now, if this results in his death, then they've sabotaged the "good" they have done with this show.

..and Alicia will have a new enemy. Then again, if she shot Naomi as intended, gun or no gun, John would have tried to kill Alicia. I cannot see a way this ends well for Alicia in future contact with Naomi and John.

Well, i guess that's her schtick. But both Maggie Grace and Jenna Elfman have portrayed characters 10+ years ago that annoyed me.

Her schtick during any fight should get people killed, and its unrealistic that no one has told her to put the camera down and help, since she's there. At least in Diary of the Dead, survivors either demanded the guy help, stop filming, or were visibly annoyed by his self-interested mission.

So what's our take on John's fate anyway? It feels too early to kill a new character they've invested a good chunk of time developing. On the other hand, he is a decent likable person and they can't last long in this universe.

If the showrunners wanted to keep the audience from becoming too settled with new characters / situations, they would let John die, but he's too interesting and his "gunslinger" paring with the "martial artist" Morgan seems primed for something bigger down the road. For that reason, I think he will make it.

Naomi's daughter turns and everyone in the whole FEMA facility turns as well? Can someone explain to me exactly how that happens? Everyone else just said, 'Oh, come on and bite me!' or did they all sleep through the massacre? This is as sloppy and incomprehensible as the TWD massacre in the mansion at Hillside after the residents were turned by infected arrows and such.

I agree that the way the outpost allegedly fell was sloppy--or it needed another explanation. The only time that kind of event worked (one walker leads to an outbreak) was in TWD's season 4 episode "Infected", when Patrick turned at the prison, so one by one people were turning without others knowing until it was too late / panic led to people running into danger.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I kind of enjoyed that Naomi brings destruction wherever she goes; she fits right in with Madison and the family!

I think the new Madison is a bit boring. While it's nice to see her a little more level headed, I never really thought of her as off-the-rails Rick-stupid. What I liked about Fear is that the decisions the characters make usually make internal sense for their characters, having to do things to survive but also not being murder crazy for the sake of being murder crazy, but also making natural mistakes. This benevolent leader role that Madison has been given is really bland given we aren't provided a linear evolution of her character and just told 'this is how it is now.'

Also, the way they 'fill in the gap' between season 3 and the stadium is criminally laughable. All our questions were answered in the blandest and hand waviest fashion possible. What was going to happen with Alicia on her own? What would happen to Nick and Madison's relationship after he sees her kill his only friend in cold blood? That was going to be a really, really interesting dynamic! How did Madison find Victor, Alicia, or Nick and bring the whole family back together? How did Luci find her way back? Well, I guess Alicia decided not to be alone anymore, Madison found Strand in the water, and eventually found Nick who decided lets just be a happy family, then found Luci, and they lived in a cave for a while... all informed through awkward exposition. I laughed when Madison says season 3 was like 'three lifetimes ago' which made it sound like we lost three whole seasons worth of the show to get to where we are now.

But I'm trying not to judge this season on how poorly it connects to season 3 since the production being handed over to new showrunners. This is just gonna be how it is. But then season 4 itself has reached tedious levels of mystery box writing, and the characters are all doing stupid things for the purposes of fulfilling the given plot. It is not a great season on its own and is developing character writing problems that ruined TWD, in a story format that is slow and clunky.

But I do find myself wanting to know what happens next (albeit not for the reasons I'd like). It's nice to have no idea where the story is going to go. I really want to see Madison in the present, but it feels like this season is one long epitaph for her character. But if she were to live, I really have no idea what this show is going to turn itself into and not knowing is keeping me watching.

 

[FreezeC77]

Naomi's daughter turns and everyone in the whole FEMA facility turns as well? Can someone explain to me exactly how that happens? Everyone else just said, 'Oh, come on and bite me!' or did they all sleep through the massacre? This is as sloppy and incomprehensible as the TWD massacre in the mansion at Hillside after the residents were turned by infected arrows and such.

A lot of ppl died in the prison when someone turned at night.

I think maybe a more logical thing is that an ilness was spread in the fema refugee building and many were hiding symptons so you had multiple deaths and weakened people.

Personally I was hoping when Naomi went into that car to kill her survival skills teacher that Naomi was attacked by her daughter. Then it would turn out what Naomi thought happened in the camp was false and that her daughter was taken out with the woman, but she turned in the car.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Fear the Walking Dead--
"The Wrong Side of Where You Are Now"

Madison: I've never been fond of extreme characterization, and Madison's "hope to the point of stupidity" is an example of that. While her moving from a murder-monster to someone embracing humanity was a welcome change, it did not mean she had to be naïve in making one bad decision after another.

Luciana: So, she was going to kill Charlie. Yes, Charlie killed Nick, but she's a child not fully responsible for what's happened to her (meaning the underhanded guidance from Mel and the others).

Strand: He was all about "well...who am I to stop you?" / indecisive about the aforementioned bad decisions made by the Clark family during the flashbacks.

Althea: "I'm not part of the story" What an asshole. Her obsession is beyond ridiculous, and she would not last a single day in the zombie apocalypse with that kind of single-mindedness.

Morgan: "Because this has to stop someplace" That message was lost on most of his TWD allies,

Mel / Vultures: Despite the time jumping's attempt to flesh out this group, so far, the overall Mel story is still underdeveloped, with his relationship to Charlie suggesting more than is actually played out on screen.
The Vultures using walkers as an attack force / trap: been there, done that with the Governor and the Wolves. They (the Vultures) just seem motivated by their own dick-ish attitude than any sort of power struggle or believable ideology.

NOTES: Although this half of the season had more going for it than previous years, the time jumping as a storytelling vehicle comes off as gimmicky--as if the writers are more concerned with potential shocks and/or reactions to hinted shocks, The eventual fall of the stadium (and whatever price is paid) is supposed to be some big event (like TWD's last prison battle), where the direction of the series and character outlook is changed (think Rick, Carl, et al), but there's just something about this conflict that lacks the kind of weight of TWD's better "final" battles.

 

[The Wormhole]

Althea: "I'm not part of the story" What an asshole. Her obsession is beyond ridiculous, and she would not last a single day in the zombie apocalypse with that kind of single-mindedness.

Yeah, that got to me. I'm just picturing an actual battlefield cameraman trying a similar line when asked to help out with a wounded and dying soldier. That sure as hell wouldn't be tolerated. Granted, Al doesn't have those concerns, still it's an odd attitude to have, valuing filming a battle so much you're willing to potentially let someone die.

 

[Beagleman]

Why the fuck didn't they just drive away before the Walkers got to surround the car, they saw them coming for like a minute... Oh and yeah, shoot at the armoured vehicle driving away (ok, I know they've got the unlimited ammo code but still).
And use your time debating and starring uneasy into the camera while someone is dying on your backseat, while sitting in a tank going up against unarmed dead dudes (and brace yourself, there's a wooden gate ahead *dramaticmoment*).
This was a dumb and the first truly bad episode this season, every character had their IQ reduced by 60 to 85%.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Yeah, Al makes unrealistic decisions to maintain her character's gimmick, as does everyone else in this season of Fear. Everyone has caught a bad case of 'The Walking Dead Stupid Decision Making' this season and its been a big disappointment for me.

Looking back, season 3 might be my favorite season of any of the Walking Dead. It's at the very least as good as season 4 of the parent series, which was my favorite before. I felt like Fear finally 'grew its beard' and was really, really looking forward to future seasons. It's unfortunate that the showrunner and writers had to change.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

You know what I wish this show (and the Walking Dead) would have more of? More god damn motherfucking flashbacks and flashforwards! Let's also take the most interesting character out of both shows (John Dorie) and put him in a fucking coma and have a bunch of idiots shoot guns at each other non-stop for forty minutes. Exciting!

 

[Joesgotflow]

Just curious, do you all think Madison is dead? I am almost positive they have not shown her in the present!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Just curious, do you all think Madison is dead? I am almost positive they have not shown her in the present!

I'm sure that's what the show wants us to think. Which probably means she's alive.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Why would Nick have been do unhinged about these guys, though, if not for them having been responsible for Madison's death? You're probably right, though. They'll probably have her pop up in the finale. Still kind of bummed about Nick's fate. He was starting to grow on me and one of the most genuinely interesting characters on the show. Hope John makes it now. There is a certain innocence about him that actually works and isn't hokey, IMO. If unleashed and property motivated, he could be one truly dangerous and highly-skilled killing machine with those six-shooters. I respect his reluctance to use them with impunity.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I'd like Madison to show up alive. What I'm afraid of is that season 4 is a story about killing off the entire family, immortalized through stupid Al. What I'd really like is if the characters stop acting either idiotically kind-hearted or equally idiotically murder-ruthless.

 

[The Wormhole]

They're making it seem too obvious Madison's dead, which almost certainly means she's alive. Not sure how they'll explain it, but I guess we'll find out, or at least get hints on the matter Sunday.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Mmm..she HAS to be dead for the gang to be so ballistic with the vultures. Either that or traded to some other group

 

[137th Gebirg]

My thoughts too.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Or, due to the idiotic storytelling plaguing the show, how much do you want to bet we'll find out that *GASP* Madison has become the leader of the Vultures in a shocking flashforward of a flashback of a flashback flashing forward

Or, she was working with the Vultures to begin with, getting the stadium ready to be ransacked