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Fear the Walking Dead Season 1 discussion and spoilers.

How many times have we had to tell you that it was NEVER going to deal with "where it began and how they tried to deal with it"?

How many times did the producers of the show say the same?

Why do you keep persisting that this is what the show was going to be about in the face of direct proof to the contrary?
 
How many times have we had to tell you that it was NEVER going to deal with "where it began and how they tried to deal with it"?

Did you? Then why did you say...

Yeah, too many people seem to want the show to rush past what makes this show different and have it just be TWD:LA.

I understand the docile enjoy being spoon-fed predictable gash but for those of us who prefer things to simmer a little, this show DID rush past what makes it different and settled into WD:LA after episode three. Episode three! Those of us who demand just a smidgeon more from our storytelling found that to be irritating and disappointing.

Then we invented the Internet so we could express that view.

If it didn't want to be that then why start before the infection? What was the point of that decision?
 
Yes. You need to have characters that at least have good moments. For however much a lot of the characters on Game of Thrones are terrible, some of them still have their redeeming qualities. What is Travis' redeeming quality so far? Madison? Nick?

Well, I'd almost argue that -depending on the type of movie/show we're dealing with- it's better to have a character to have no qualities than bad ones.

Travis may have no "redeeming qualities" but he's not a bad character (in his actions, at least.) He's done nothing strictly wrong other than simply being overly naive and perhaps to dismissal of his biological son. To his credit in the pilot he did quickly "fight for" Nick's claims on what happened in the drug den.

Madison is the same thing. She's strictly done nothing wrong yet and arguably has shown herself to be the one most likely to deal with the changes going on and willing to do "what is needed" to survive. She gave us our first (and so far only) walker over-kill, of a former friend and has shown some level of acceptance about what is happening and what needs to change.

The teenage kids (estranged son, and alluringly attractive daughter) are just that. They're filling their roles nicely as teenagers being dismissive of their parents and wanting to do their own things.

The Hispanic dad (name escapes me) is probably the closest we have so far to having a character who is "bad" but is also "redeemingly bad" in that the actor is doing a good job with the portrayal of the character at this point with the thin backstory we have in making the character seem somewhat complex. If anything he's the "bad guy you root for" he's not redeemed, but his actions are allowed to slide because the actor is doing a good job with the character. Like Tony Soprano and Heisenberg.

The rest of the Salzars are/were non-entities so far.

Ex-Wife hasn't done anything one way or another either, somewhat redeemable seeing as we saw her used her limited medical knowledge to ease the suffering of the people in the neighborhood.

Which leaves us with Nick, a character the show has probably focused on the most, who isn't so far a character with any redeemable qualities. The *most* he has is that he's probably shown the most awareness and "survival" instinct with what's going on but that hardly makes up for the crummy things we've seen him do (steeling a sick man's morphine by injecting the IV-drip between his toes; generally acting like a douchebag) and how he's behaved towards his family, loved ones, and a man who has tried to connect with him.


But he's yet to do anything redeemable and neither the aspects of the character or how the actor is portraying him isn't good enough to ignore the bad (again, like Tony Soprano or Heisenberg, or the men who played them.)

So we're left with a douchebag punk who treats his family like shit and steals from dying men to get a fix. Nothing to latch on to there.

Shit, I'm more interested in the "closer" who's in the cell with him who we got all of a few minutes and lines of dialogue with but the actor was charismatic enough to make the character seem interesting. What's his long-game? Who was he before all of this? How has he gotten here? He's potentially a very interesting character. Let's hope his plan with Nick is to use him as a sacrificial lamb. Otis the shit out of Nick, Closer!
 
It annoys me because I really did psyche myself up for a show that was going to deal with all the pre-apocalypse stuff. Where it began, How they initially tried to deal with it, the media reaction to it, world wide press conferences discussing it, army presence to deal with it, the UN, presidential addresses etc.

I mean, one thing seems clear and that is that it started in the US because surely if it had started elsewhere in the world, there would have been US broadcast news shows looking at and discussing it prior to the first US cases. It starting in the US seems to be the only thing we can guess at based on what FTWD has given us.

Maybe I was wrong to assume that that's what this show was going to be about but I did assume and so I was hugely disappointed. Why start at the beginning if you're going to skip past the beginning? Why not just start mid-apocalypse and use flashbacks?

Why tease us with prequel ideas and then purposely not deliver?

Oh well. Let's see what the second season brings.

This might be what people like you and me were expecting when the show was announced, but the writers clearly said that the purpose was to introduce us to characters BEFORE the apocalypse happened, so that we would be able to see their progression.

THAT is the only purpose of this show.
 
The Apocalypse has happened.

It's time for these mooks to sack up.

They producers have done maybe three seasons in 5 episodes, given the pace of the parent show.

fear the Walking Dead has gone from perfect ordinary to living in a cage in three episodes, and then the army turning on the civilians an episode after that.

Whoever wrote this does not understand the power of the Army to level shit or turn shit into burning powder.

That stadium could have been cleared in a couple hours if they'd exploited the high ground and used phosphorous bombs maybe, which they could have put together by a high school chemistry teacher and looting a gardening supply store.

80 kills?

There were 3.9 million people in Los Angeles before the virus took root.

80 kills?

You suck.
 
How many times have we had to tell you that it was NEVER going to deal with "where it began and how they tried to deal with it"?

Did you? Then why did you say...

Yeah, too many people seem to want the show to rush past what makes this show different and have it just be TWD:LA.
Um, because alot of people did? Not sure how that relates to your incorrect expectations of the show?

And by "they" in my first quote above I was referring to the government and the start of the virus, as that quote was in response to your post just previous.
I understand the docile enjoy being spoon-fed predictable gash but for those of us who prefer things to simmer a little, this show DID rush past what makes it different and settled into WD:LA after episode three. Episode three! Those of us who demand just a smidgeon more from our storytelling found that to be irritating and disappointing.

Then we invented the Internet so we could express that view.

If it didn't want to be that then why start before the infection? What was the point of that decision?
As has been stated, many times, to follow a group of people going through the beginning of the ZA. Not to show what started the ZA.

Now even I admit the writers short changed us by doing the 9 day jump. They basically skipped over the meat of what the show was intended to be about.
 
I don't need an explanation for what the cause of the undead is, but how about some character curiosity? How about they want to figure it out, and they just can't? Why aren't they curious to turn on the TV, radio, whatever to find out something? Kirkman's adherence to wanting characters (or even the audience) to be in the dark in such an information age just doesn't work. It's the reason most zombie shows/movies start at the point that TWD did, because explaining how things went down takes a lot of thought, and doesn't withstand much scrutiny. Again, it's the problem with shows like Lost. Characters that don't really act like real people (with curiosity or assertiveness), but chess pieces to be moved around for the sake of drama whether it makes sense or not.

[stuff about characters]

To me, it's not about whether or not they're morally good, but whether what they're doing makes sense. A person can be immoral, but still understandable. To me, it's much more about how stupid the characters are. In the face of something terrible, we've got extremely naive characters, and those who are continuing on like nothing's happening.

In that sense, both Travis and Madison have made stupid decisions that probably should have resulted in their death. Travis with his late night drug den excursion, naivety about guns, his approach to a dude eating a dog in his living room, and general shitty parenting. Madison with risky decisions like leaving the safe zone, complying with dangerous torture, approaching a bloody principal after already seeing a couple different zombies, and also very shitty parenting.

Travis hasn't done anything really to make me appreciate the character. Madison at least shows some promise with some adaptive morals and ideas about the dead, but still hasn't done a lot to make me root for her in any fashion.

Chris is terrible. Like I get that teenagers can be obstinate, but his depiction is just so horribly exaggerated, that he isn't really a character, just another walking cliche. Every chance he's had to do something reasonable, he's basically been a bitch. How is this likable?

Alicia is very similar although not quite as annoying. She's also too stereotypical of a teenager, and as such also does not have any depth. She's about as shallow as all of the military characters. The only moment I've been happy about anything she's done is that she put two and two together about her dead boyfriend.

Nick is, well, Nick. I don't think he's done anything to make me care, but has done plenty of angering things.

Daniel seems with it at least, but he's too adversarial and aggressive this early on. He's like Shane already at the barn.

Shit, I'm more interested in the "closer" who's in the cell with him who we got all of a few minutes and lines of dialogue with but the actor was charismatic enough to make the character seem interesting. What's his long-game? Who was he before all of this? How has he gotten here? He's potentially a very interesting character. Let's hope his plan with Nick is to use him as a sacrificial lamb. Otis the shit out of Nick, Closer!
He does seem like an interesting character, but only because we don't really know anything about him. Maybe the actor can carry him, but I'm guessing that as soon as his story is known, he won't be nearly as compelling. And what does that say when your characters with five episodes of development are more boring than he is? When people want the nerdy high school kid to be a part of the cast?
 
Okay, looks like my prediction of a major Zombie swarm at the climax of the season will come true. There's no way that the Zombies in the arena won't be liberated somehow.

It seems the show is determined to make us hate everybody. Nick lost my sympathy last week when he stole Morphine from the sick old man. This week, Daniel lost my sympathy for torturing the soldier (turns out he was the bad guy in El Salvador, not a victim) and so did Madison, for going along so blithely. And Alicia and Christopher demonstrated themselves to be complete losers for trashing that house. Now the only good guys left are Travis and Liza, and Travis is more bewildered than good.

Between the awkwardly satirical portrayal of the military, the children's vandalism, and the comments by Nick's cellmate about "latte drinkers," it seems that they are trying to tailor the show to the Millennial audience; a Zombie Apocalypse to take down the One-Percenters.
 
I don't need an explanation for what the cause of the undead is, but how about some character curiosity? How about they want to figure it out, and they just can't? Why aren't they curious to turn on the TV, radio, whatever to find out something?

Exactly! There's not an ounce or realism for the characters to moan from one scene to another, yet not a single character questions what has happened with the CENTRAL reason the military has isolated them in the forst place. Certain FTWD fans can make excuses, but none hold any weight when they run defense for the deliberate fear of Kirkman, et al. still avoiding anything that moves in the direction of WHY this is happening at all.

The first priority of characters is survival, but part of that need to survive is asking the what-when-how of the ZA. I'm not surprised others (Darabont) were responsible for TWD franchise's most logical episode, "TS-19," as it has no connection to the comic, and tried to realistically address what character--and rational viewer alike--knew was an all-important issue.

As others have noted, what is the purpose of a prequel series if the what-when-how of the ZA is not addressed at all? That's making excuses for poor writers avoiding even so much as a theory, because they fear criticism for trying to do their job and have characters behave and seek answers.

Kirkman's adherence to wanting characters (or even the audience) to be in the dark in such an information age just doesn't work. It's the reason most zombie shows/movies start at the point that TWD did, because explaining how things went down takes a lot of thought, and doesn't withstand much scrutiny. Again, it's the problem with shows like Lost. Characters that don't really act like real people (with curiosity or assertiveness), but chess pieces to be moved around for the sake of drama whether it makes sense or not.
Agreed: the complete lack of media coverage is another scared dodge, as they did not even dare show anything that demanded serious scripting about public reactions to the dead rising / eating.

In the main title sequence (and a mall TV scene) of the 2004 Dawn of the Dead remake, there was an highly effective montage of TV coverage of attacks, government response and the increasing chaos of the ZA. With no more than 10 minutes of screen time dedicated to it, a wealth of information about the ZA was covered to give logical reason for the fall, and character reactions. If a film--with limited time--can accomplish so much, there is no excuse for a TV series that has the luxury of time.

...and if some will defensively fall back on "its not about the why," then what is the purpose of the series? TWD season one was sufficient in showing the early reactions to the ZA. No one needs an entire series for that, considering what FTWD has offered so far.
 
Um, because alot of people did? Not sure how that relates to your incorrect expectations of the show?

Um because they were YOUR expectations too. You also thought we would spend more time in pre-apocalypse rather than rush ahead and criticised people for wanting to rush ahead "past what makes this show different" otherwise you wouldn't have said it. Then the show DID exactly that. It rushed ahead.

Now even I admit the writers short changed us by doing the 9 day jump. They basically skipped over the meat of what the show was intended to be about.

They short-changed us in all kinds of ways. This show could have been brilliant but instead it was a six episode set-up for Walking Dead:LA.

Which nobody wanted.
 
I understand the docile enjoy being spoon-fed predictable gash but for those of us who prefer things to simmer a little, this show DID rush past what makes it different and settled into WD:LA after episode three. Episode three! Those of us who demand just a smidgeon more from our storytelling found that to be irritating and disappointing.

Setting aside the insulting language... To me a WD:LA would involve Madison and her family trekking through the streets or countryside decked out with weapons and gear and covered in dirt as hoards of zombies roam around everywhere.

And I'd say we still have quite a ways to go before we reach that point.
 
I understand the docile enjoy being spoon-fed predictable gash but for those of us who prefer things to simmer a little, this show DID rush past what makes it different and settled into WD:LA after episode three. Episode three! Those of us who demand just a smidgeon more from our storytelling found that to be irritating and disappointing.

Setting aside the insulting language... To me a WD:LA would involve Madison and her family trekking through the streets or countryside decked out with weapons and gear and covered in dirt as hoards of zombies roam around everywhere.

And I'd say we still have quite a ways to go before we reach that point.

I dunno with the current pace that can happen in next season's premiere...
 
Um because they were YOUR expectations too. You also thought we would spend more time in pre-apocalypse rather than rush ahead and criticised people for wanting to rush ahead "past what makes this show different" otherwise you wouldn't have said it. Then the show DID exactly that. It rushed ahead.

...and the reason "per-apocalypse" cannot occupy too much time in a concept where horror is supposed to overtake society, is that all that comes before is merely establishing characters and their basic relations--which will be challenged by the horror, and in the case of a zombie show--as Darabont correctly concluded in "TS-19,"--seek answers to how and why it happened.

All we have now is a moaning, asshole fest minus any real horror, other than what I'm guessing will be a shoehorned zombie stadium break out, only to create false dilemmas / send everyone scattering for a season cliffhanger.

They short-changed us in all kinds of ways. This show could have been brilliant but instead it was a six episode set-up for Walking Dead:LA.

Which nobody wanted.

Agreed. It will not be long before they're roughly in TWD pilot time line, and then...what?
 
I dunno with the current pace that can happen in next season's premiere...

I fully expect characters to be decked out in weapons roaming the countryside by mid season two (assuming it's twice as many episodes).

What else could they be doing? Hanging around in the safe zone (just like the parent show). Seems unlikely.


All we have now is a moaning, asshole fest minus any real horror, other than what I'm guessing will be a shoehorned zombie stadium break out, only to create false dilemmas / send everyone scattering for a season cliffhanger.

If the show had genuinely explored the beginnings of the outbreak. Where it started, how the world was reacting to it, theories, panic, political and scientific responses, a real sense of something happening worldwide...I would have been happy not to have seen any zombies at all until maybe the last episode. Then we can watch this family coping with it from start to finish perhaps.

But instead we got an unlikeable family, very limited information and then...BANG, nine days have gone by, LA is full of zombies and there is a safe zone run by mentally unstable soldiers.

:scream:
 
While the characters may be assholes and the timeline did make more of a jump than I would have preferred, I'm still enjoying Fear infinitely more than The Walking Dead. In fact, I'm still on the fence about whether or not I want to continue viewing it. Watching people wander through the woods making stupid ass decisions two years into a zombie apocalypse while also trying to come across as total badasses is boring as fuck to me. The only thing The Walking Dead can do to return my interest is to make Rick the villain (which will never happen) or introduce Negan early on in season six.
 
If the show had genuinely explored the beginnings of the outbreak. Where it started, how the world was reacting to it, theories, panic, political and scientific responses, a real sense of something happening worldwide...I would have been happy not to have seen any zombies at all until maybe the last episode. Then we can watch this family coping with it from start to finish perhaps.

But instead we got an unlikeable family, very limited information and then...BANG, nine days have gone by, LA is full of zombies and there is a safe zone run by mentally unstable soldiers.

:scream:

Agreed. Personally, I was hoping for something more "andromeda strain" like in a prequel's execution, where biologists are discovering what's going on in labs and the outbreak starts there. The last thing I expected was the Dullard Family and their friends.
 
While the characters may be assholes and the timeline did make more of a jump than I would have preferred, I'm still enjoying Fear infinitely more than The Walking Dead.

Any series running for some time can wear on viewers in one way or another, but it says something far worse for the new series to be disappointment right out of the gates.

Compare season 1 of TWD to FTWD. Which season, characters, set-up and journey was/is more compelling?


In fact, I'm still on the fence about whether or not I want to continue viewing it. Watching people wander through the woods making stupid ass decisions two years into a zombie apocalypse while also trying to come across as total badasses is boring as fuck to me.

As I mentioned above, any series running for some time can wear on viewers in one way or another. Do you think FTWD--considering the world and characters it has established--would be any better five seasons from now?


The only thing The Walking Dead can do to return my interest is to make Rick the villain (which will never happen) or introduce Negan early on in season six.

Rick already swims in the villain pool often, particularly in the past two seasons, and if the teaser clips give any clue, he's not winning "hero of the year" awards anytime soon.
 
Eh, I've never had any interest in learning the origins of the outbreak. There's only a handful of things it could be after all (which we've already seen covered in previous zombie movies and shows), so I'm not sure what the point would be. And Kirkman has always made it clear this was supposed to be more about the aftermath and how people react than about whatever caused it.

And the fact this show is taking that same approach doesn't bother me at all.
 
Eh, I've never had any interest in learning the origins of the outbreak. There's only a handful of things it could be after all (which we've already seen covered in previous zombie movies and shows), so I'm not sure what the point would be. And Kirkman has always made it clear this was supposed to be more about the aftermath and how people react than about whatever caused it.

And the fact this show is taking that same approach doesn't bother me at all.

But then the only real difference between the two shows becomes the schedule of the aftermath, either immediate (FTWD) or late term (TWD), and if the early aftermath show sucks compared to the original, what's to make me care about the idiots going through it?
 
But then the only real difference between the two shows becomes the schedule of the aftermath, either immediate (FTWD) or late term (TWD), and if the early aftermath show sucks compared to the original, what's to make me care about the idiots going through it?

Don't know what to tell you. If it's not grabbing you, then it's not grabbing you. But so far I happen to like the slightly different perspective we're getting, with more everyday people in a more familiar urban environment who are watching civilized society slowly crumble around them. And who are still trying to adjust to the concept of zombies and have quite a ways to go before they can become the hardened survivors they need to be (which I really don't see happening as early as next season either, given how ill-prepared they still clearly are).

That's all stuff we never really saw explored on the main show. By the time we met them, most of the characters had accepted that this was the new state of affairs, and Rick figured out how to survive (and had the tools and training for it) pretty early as well. The FTWD characters don't seem to be even close to that place yet.

And watching them get there is what I find really interesting to see.
 
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