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Favourite Star Trek fact... that is not true.

Ultimate Computer. And yeah, Kelvin universe was created by people who don't know what they're doing.
Why, because McCoy didn't know who Captain Dunsel was? I'd have to say that that proves nothing: McCoy could have been on a different track there, I think, where he did not pick up that term, or it's a term that came into vogue after he'd gone through the Academy. That said, I agree that it's clearly compatible with McCoy not having gone to the Academy, and it certainly hints at it, but just not in any way that fully commits to the idea (IOW, it's easily reversible).
 
Why, because McCoy didn't know who Captain Dunsel was? I'd have to say that that proves nothing: McCoy could have been on a different track there, I think, where he did not pick up that term, or it's a term that came into vogue after he'd gone through the Academy. That said, I agree that it's clearly compatible with McCoy not having gone to the Academy, and it certainly hints at it, but just not in any way that fully commits to the idea (IOW, it's easily reversible).
You can't separate it from context. This was a show written by and for veterans of the war, who knew how the military worked. An assumption going into it was that doctors didn't go to the military academy. Similar assumptions were that ensigns didn't interrupt captains.
The writers of subsequent Trek didn't know either of those facts.
Can you take the Ultimate Computer and twist it so that McCoy in fact did go to the Academy? If you want to, yes. But to do so completely discards the way the episode - and the series - is both written and played.
 
Doctors, of course, generally do not go to military academies. They get commissioned through OCS after medical school. The writers of TOS knew that, since they had served. Most of the current writers are clueless.
Just FYI...While it's not an "academy" the Department of Defense does run it's own medical school. Uniformed Services University in Bethesda, Maryland. It was founded in the 70s, so post-TOS but before any of the other shows or movies.

Where is it canonically established that McCoy Prime did not go to Starfleet Academy? We know canonically that Kelvin Universe McCoy did go to the Academy, by the way.
It's mentioned in Trials and Tribble-ations
Jadzia: Leonard McCoy! I met him when he was a student at Ole Miss!
Sisko: Who met him? Curzon?
Jadzia: No, my host at the time was Emony. She was on Earth judging a gymnastics competition. I had a feeling he'd become a doctor. He had the hands of a surgeon.​
 
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JIt's mentioned in Trials and Tribulations.
Jadzia: Leonard McCoy! I met him when he was a student at Ole Miss!
Sisko: Who met him? Curzon?
Jadzia: No, my host at the time was Emony. She was on Earth judging a gymnastics competition. I had a feeling he'd become a doctor. He had the hands of a surgeon.​
No, that DS9 episode just says he was a student at Ole Miss. Again, there's nothing factual about whether McCoy went to the Academy when he joined Starfleet (or to join Starfleet); to glean it, one must interpret and make assumptions (however reasonable those assumptions might seem).
 
No, that DS9 episode just says he was a student at Ole Miss. Again, there's nothing factual about whether McCoy went to the Academy when he joined Starfleet (or to join Starfleet); to glean it, one must interpret and make assumptions (however reasonable those assumptions might seem).
Ah, I thought you were asking where he got his undergraduate degree. That's generally what I understand it to mean when someone is asked where they "went". If you're asking if McCoy ever took any courses, classes, seminars, etc. at Starfleet Academy, then you are correct that it's never explicitly stated.
 
Then, there we go. It's not a fact, then. It's an interpretation. It's a fair and reasonable interpretation, as I've already indicated, but it's an interpretation nonetheless.
Taking how something is written and played at face value is not an interpretation. Sometimes, context and subtext can be open to interpretation, and sometimes not. If I see a movie about Sherlock Holmes, and everyone is dressed in Victorian attire and rides around the cobbled streets of London in hansome cabs, it is not a valid interpretation that it takes place in the 21st century, even if the film at no time mentions the year in which it takes place.
There was so much to Star Trek that was NOT in the words... why would one toss that out? It does a great disservice to the artists involved.
You may as well say Scotty could be German because he never actually SAYS he's Scottish. At most I recall him mentioning the mists of Aberdeen.
I remember in the novelization of TVH, Vonda McIntyre had the two garbagemen NOT discussing the fight one of them was having with his wife. Rather, he's recounting a fictional story about someone who fights with his wife, and the other garbageman is so into it that he responds as though it's real. I don't know why she did that, but the unnecessary contortion of the original script is preposterous.
 
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Just FYI...While it's not an "academy" the Department of Defense does run it's own medical school. Uniformed Services University in Bethesda, Maryland. It was founded in the 70s, so post-TOS but before any of the other shows or movies.

Interesting - I didn't know that. Thanks! I flirted with joining Navy JAG for a while - I assume there is no similar military law school (although that would seem more necessary than a military medical school).
 
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Taking how something is written and played at face value is not an interpretation. Sometimes, context and subtext can be open to interpretation, and sometimes not. If I see a movie about Sherlock Holmes, and everyone is dressed in Victorian attire and rides around the cobbled streets of London in hansome cabs, it is not a valid interpretation that it takes place in the 21st century, even if the film at no time mentions the year in which it takes place.
There was so much to Star Trek that was NOT in the words... why would one toss that out? It does a great disservice to the artists involved.
You may as well say Scotty could be German because he never actually SAYS he's Scottish. At most I recall him mentioning the mists of Aberdeen.
I remember in the novelization of TVH, Vonda McIntyre had the two garbagemen NOT discussing the fight one of them was having with his wife. Rather, he's recounting a fictional story about someone who fights with his wife, and the other garbageman is so into it that he responds as though it's real. I don't know why she did that, but the unnecessary contortion of the original script is preposterous.
Unlike the adventures of Sherlock Holmes, Star Trek is not historical fiction. The use of suggestive tropes compatible with certain facts that are historical to us does not imply (i.e., logically necessitate) that those historical facts necessarily hold in the hypothetical, fictional future universe that Star Trek is set in. If it's not necessitated, it's not a fact.
 
Interesting - I didn't know that. Thanks! I flirted with joining Navy JAG for a while - I assume there is no similar military law school (although that would seem more necessary than a military medical school).
I think they started the school because doctors were leaving once their commitment was up and so they didn't have very many senior physicians. USU grads on the other hand are much more likely to be lifers. For law school, I believe the military offers scholarships to civilian schools.
 
Unlike the adventures of Sherlock Holmes, Star Trek is not historical fiction. The use of suggestive tropes compatible with certain facts that are historical to us does not imply (i.e., logically necessitate) that those historical facts necessarily hold in the hypothetical, fictional future universe that Star Trek is set in. If it's not necessitated, it's not a fact.

You take it far too literally. Star Trek was not about the future. It was about the 1960s.
 
Star Trek was not about the future. It was about the 1960s.
That's patently absurd. Star Trek has always been a reflection of the times in which it was written, surely, and many an episode has been topical of those same times, but TOS was not about the 1960s. There weren't mobster gangs of the 1920s or Nazis running things in the 1960s. I don't recall many salt-sucking telepathic hypnoids or silicon-based rock tunnelers running around either. Nor was I aware of my evil twin.

And for the record, I did not say that Star Trek was or is about the future. What I said (portions underlined for emphasis) [https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/fav...-that-is-not-true.303405/page-4#post-13312639]:

Unlike the adventures of Sherlock Holmes, Star Trek is not historical fiction. The use of suggestive tropes compatible with certain facts that are historical to us does not imply (i.e., logically necessitate) that those historical facts necessarily hold in the hypothetical, fictional future universe that Star Trek is set in. If it's not necessitated, it's not a fact.​

McCoy was a doctor, not an engineer. The fact that he did not know the term used to describe a part that serves no useful purpose does not mean that he didn't attend and even graduate from Starfleet Academy. Surely, McCoy received his basic Starfleet training somewhere, and he might easily have qualified not to take a great many courses, if he'd already graduated from the University of Mississippi (as he presumably did).
 
People saying "Alex Kurtzman! Alex Kurtzman! Alex Kurtzman!" when it comes to Picard when Michael Chabon is the showrunner and is the one coming up with the ideas.

This is especially worse coming from Niners as it's the 2020 equivalent of thinking B&B were responsible for DS9. Tell that to any Niner and see what they say. Exactly. DS9 is Ira Steven Behr's show. PIC, likewise, is Michael Chabon's show.
 
They don't interpret the Star Trek universe the way you do. There's a huge difference. GR didn't think Have Bennett "got it" when he made Wrath of Khan, but nobody doubts he watched all the original episodes and did his homework.


This segues into one of my pet peeves: the casual assumption, prevalent throughout fandom, that if a new production of some beloved property deviates from Established Lore this is clearly the result of ignorance.

"They've obviously never watched the original movie or TV show/read the original comics/read the original book/studied the original myths and legends," and such.

As opposed to conceding that the new folks may have deviated from the source material on purpose, for reasons.

Now one can certainly debate whether any particular deviation was a good idea or not, but can we not always jump to the conclusion that such deviations are mistakes made out of unfamiliarity with the previous versions? Chances are, folks (like Harve Bennett) did their homework before deciding what to stick with and what to tinker with--as anybody is going to do when tasked with revitalizing some venerable old property.
 
People saying "Alex Kurtzman! Alex Kurtzman! Alex Kurtzman!" when it comes to Picard when Michael Chabon is the showrunner and is the one coming up with the ideas.
Sure, because Alex Kurtzman isn't executive producer and currently isn't providing the overall direction of both STD and STP. Sure.
 
Sure, because Alex Kurtzman isn't executive producer and currently isn't overseeing the direction of STD and STP. Sure.
Delegation. Going by some of you, you'd think Alex Kurtzman writes EVERYTHING. Every word, every sentence, every line. He does not. You know this.

Michael Chabon oversees the writing. Alex Kurtzman is a rubber stamp. Michael Chabon is the brains behind Picard. When he leaves, the difference will be felt. The showrunner who replaces him will not be as good. That's not a slight to his replacement but Michael Chabon is in a different league than everyone else. I think even they know they'll have big shoes to fill.

You don't think a showrunner makes a difference? They do. Look at DS9 and VOY, which were on during most of the same years. They didn't have the same showrunners and DS9 is better than VOY. Why? Because of the showrunner.

And not only is he the writer of "Calypso" (which in my opinion, people can either like or they're wrong, my opinion of it is that high) but he also did the near-impossible: he made me excited about a series that's a follow-up to TNG and VOY, neither of which are exactly my favorite Star Trek series. I'm telling you what he did was no easy feet. Not even remotely. For those two things alone, he has my respect as a creator. We won't even go into the fact that he's a Pulitzer Prize winner.

When Michael Chabon speaks, the smartest thing Alex Kurtzman can do is just nod his head and stay out of Chabon's way.
 
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