I always figured Morrow was talking about it in its refit configuration. Decker calls it an almost entirely new ship in TMP.
Favorite canon violation
- Thread starter Butters
- Start date
I always figured Morrow was talking about it in its refit configuration. Decker calls it an almost entirely new ship in TMP.
And the quote from Butters was "over 20 years old". Which was accurate. 40 is over 20.
Alas I believe the actual words were "is 20 years old", far harder to wave away. I don't think that the "current configuration" suggestion matches that either
When they changed the Warp Numbers from just warp = speed/c to 'warp increases asymptotically to 10 but never reaches it without breaking the universe and/or turning you into lizards'
Point was that the ship had a history before kirk got it, and the refit wasn't twenty years, though we can only infer that.
Had morrow instead said, Jim, the Enterprise is ancient, there'd be nothing to moan about.
Since we have no real year for The Search for Spock, only conjecture, I tend to think he was talking about the refit. It works for me.
We'd still be arguing over the definition of "ancient".
Since we have no real year for The Search for Spock, only conjecture, I tend to think he was talking about the refit. It works for me.
We'd still be arguing over the definition of "ancient".
No, but we can extrapolate how long after TWOK that TSFS takes place. And there is a date In TWOK.
There is just no on screen evidence how long before TWOK did TMP take place.
But we don't know if that's a stardate, Earth year or Romulan year? Kirk is reading it off of a Romulan bottle. So it is still muddled in my mind.
But we don't know if that's a stardate, Earth year or Romulan year? Kirk is reading it off of a Romulan bottle. So it is still muddled in my mind.
Space Seed was about 15 years before TWOK, TSFS is shortly after TWOK, so "20 years old" must refer to roughly the time Kirk took command before the Gary Mitchell incident, perhaps when there was a previous major refit (between pike and Kirk, not involving decker)
Even ignoring the non-canon 2245 launch date, the Enterprise is at least 15 (Space Seed - WoK) + 13 (The Menagerie) years old at the time of Search for Spock.
In the old days of TrekBBS, I used to argue with someone about "Turnabout Intruder". He said the episode established women couldn't be Captains, whether we liked it or not because that was the intent in 1969. I said that was stupid. I cited Number One in "The Cage" and that I thought it was ridiculous that she was at her glass ceiling.
* And the modern argument has been Kirk's personal world of Starship Captains and being a Captain didn't admit for women. That's the interpretation I went with. So, we argued about this a lot.
Then, in ENT, they had Captain Hernandez. I thought that was great. I said at the time (paraphrasing), "Even if it did technically violate canon, the idea that women couldn't be Captains [in TOS and earlier] doesn't deserve to be canon." I'm not a fan of ENT but I think that was the single best thing to come out of the series. I give credit where it's due, and it's due here.
* And the modern argument has been Kirk's personal world of Starship Captains and being a Captain didn't admit for women. That's the interpretation I went with. So, we argued about this a lot.
Then, in ENT, they had Captain Hernandez. I thought that was great. I said at the time (paraphrasing), "Even if it did technically violate canon, the idea that women couldn't be Captains [in TOS and earlier] doesn't deserve to be canon." I'm not a fan of ENT but I think that was the single best thing to come out of the series. I give credit where it's due, and it's due here.
Since Cardassian helmets disappeared with their original uniforms, we can just assume they were discontinued with the uniform change. Likewise the Romulans. Hardly a canon violation.
Now the fact that whenever we saw flashbacks to Bajor under Cardassian occupation on DS9 and the Cardassians in those scenes were wearing the current uniforms as opposed to the outfits from The Wounded on the other hand, that might be a bit of a canon violation.
Star Trek: Enterprise.
The entire thing.
The entire thing.
Not so much a favourite canon violation itself that pops up in my memory, but a favourite acknowledgement-and-dismissal of one.
DS9, Trials and Tribble-ations
Case closed. Brilliant solution, much better than that entire episode ENT later made out of it
DS9, Trials and Tribble-ations
Case closed. Brilliant solution, much better than that entire episode ENT later made out of it
Not so much a favourite canon violation itself that pops up in my memory, but a favourite acknowledgement-and-dismissal of one.
DS9, Trials and Tribble-ations
Case closed. Brilliant solution, much better than that entire episode ENT later made out of it
True they should have left it at DSN's "We do not discuss it with outsiders
But they then decided to go with what O'Brien and Bashir thought it was Genetic Engineering and a viral mutation, But given that Starfleet Personnel where invovled surely Starfleet wold let it's crew know all about it not to mention as an argument in favour of NO Genetic Engineering policy that the UFP has look what happened to the Klingons when they tried it.
My favorite canon violation is the Voyager crew count.
It's the epitamy of creative laziness not to even count the number of dead crew members.
It's the epitamy of creative laziness not to even count the number of dead crew members.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, warp 10 is a speed that cannot be reached. Traveling at warp 10 would mean the object traveling at that speed would be in every single point in the universe at the same time.
But... warp 10 and more has been reached more than once.
Few examples that I quickly remember right now...
STNG and 'Where No One Has Gone Before', was it warp 13 that was possible with the help of Traveler?
VOY and 'Threshold', Paris breaks the warp 10 barrier in a shuttle... a shuttle from a lost ship with limited resources. And Tom does something that has never been accomplished before.
In STNG and 'All Good Things...' Riker ordered for the Enterprise to go to warp 13. That may have simply been a "recalibrated" warp scale, warp 13 might mean warp 8 for example for all we know.
But the point of all this: If there is a rule that warp 10 is impossible, why break that rule?
But... warp 10 and more has been reached more than once.
Few examples that I quickly remember right now...
STNG and 'Where No One Has Gone Before', was it warp 13 that was possible with the help of Traveler?
VOY and 'Threshold', Paris breaks the warp 10 barrier in a shuttle... a shuttle from a lost ship with limited resources. And Tom does something that has never been accomplished before.
In STNG and 'All Good Things...' Riker ordered for the Enterprise to go to warp 13. That may have simply been a "recalibrated" warp scale, warp 13 might mean warp 8 for example for all we know.
But the point of all this: If there is a rule that warp 10 is impossible, why break that rule?
It's utter nonsense though, because it means that Bashir, Odo and O'Brien have never seen a picture of a Klingon from the TOS era, and never even heard of their appearance change.
Given their numerous and high-profile encounters with Starfleet, that makes no sense at all.
Maybe those are the home front uniforms, and The Wounded is their off trooping in the Federation desert look....
There was no rule that warp 10 was impossible until Threshold, and all the examples you cited were before that. So the question should be why did Threshold decide warp 10 was impossible when there was prior evidence showing that no it isn't.
