That could have been an interesting read. I have often wondered about the fate of the assimilated Enterprise - E crew.
Fate of the assimilated Enterprise -E crew
- Thread starter ConRefit79
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That could have been an interesting read. I have often wondered about the fate of the assimilated Enterprise - E crew.
I've actually thought the same thing, but for the related reason that I reckon it would've been more of an emotional kick-in-the-gut for the audience to see 1701-D being assimilated on the inside (Borg alcoves down the corridors, etc) than it was to watch it happen to some new ship that we've never seen before this movie. Because of our 7+ year emotional connection to the Galaxy Class and those particular interior sets, I reckon it would've felt even more like an invasion/perversion to see them all getting 'Borgified'.
^^I hadn't thought of it that way. I like it (from a literary standpoint, of course)
I attribute it to the Enterprise E crew assimilated where completely converted to full-blown Borg and quickly put to work as good little drones. Meanwhile, the Borg plan to use Picard/Locutus to conquer the Federation required that he retain a smidge of his humanity ... to act as spokesborg, retain enough memory to outwit Starfleet tactics in battle, to up the scare-factor and maintain the appearance of our beloved Captain turning on us
The Queen tells Picard not to think in such three dimensional terms when he asks about the fact she was clearly destroyed in BOBW. And moving on a few years we saw more Borg Queen appearances later on Voyager. I therefore took the physical being that Alice Krige was playing and whose spine got snapped by Picard as a local manifestation of a much larger entity, or program, which was at the centre of the hive mind. Maybe even a manifestation of the hive mind itself in an individual ("I am the Borg "). The physical form of the Queen therefore was important to the Borg she was immediately in contact with, but there were other Queens elsewhere on other ships. The Borg as a whole having a single point of failure like that seems very implausible.
That's not really even hard to No-Prize away, though: Geordi and/or Data built some sort of package to contain the chip and provide some separation and power protection. Maybe Soong had designed it to fuse into place on implantation, and they wanted it to be removable in case they didn't like the results of installing it.
Edit: That's what I get for accidentally commenting after reading one page of comments when there are almost three full pages. I see USS KG5 beat me to the punch, almost 4 months ago. I still like my answer, but that one could work, too.
The Queen is a program, not an individual. When she claims she is the Borg, she isn't kidding. And any claim that she was once an individual that was a scared little girl about to be assimilated was a lie, meant to distract the child in the VOY episode so they won't notice when their individuality is bled away. The Borg Queen's original body was one of the first to be assimilated, and that must be how she became such a powerful part of the Borg central program. Much of their original intent when they first became what we now know as the Borg came from what she wanted out of becoming part of a hive mind. That's why all the Borg Queen's look alike. They're all clones of her original form.
The Borg Queen has an endless supply of the bodies of Susanna Thomson and Alice Krige, as we see her wear both alternately. So the story about "the original body being one of the first to be assimilated" need not be relevant, either. Supposedly, those two endlessly xeroxable bodies come from Species 128 rather than Species 1, too.
But it's quite possible that Species 128 is a species of clones or lookalikes (see Benzites). The specific body the Queen is wearing may well have been assimilated when she was a scared kid just as she relates. And her earlier, identical body may have been assimilated when she was a rebellious teen who volunteered to join the Borg just to spite her parents. Etc.
Having warm bodies waiting for the Queen to use is not something confirmed onscreen, but it's something allowed by onscreen facts. And for all we know, Seven of Nine / Annika Hansen was another warm body kept in readiness for the Queen.
Timo Saloniemi
But it's quite possible that Species 128 is a species of clones or lookalikes (see Benzites). The specific body the Queen is wearing may well have been assimilated when she was a scared kid just as she relates. And her earlier, identical body may have been assimilated when she was a rebellious teen who volunteered to join the Borg just to spite her parents. Etc.
Having warm bodies waiting for the Queen to use is not something confirmed onscreen, but it's something allowed by onscreen facts. And for all we know, Seven of Nine / Annika Hansen was another warm body kept in readiness for the Queen.
Timo Saloniemi
I'm not sure of the answer to the OP, but did you notice when they showed Picard assimilated there were surgeries but not amputations. He had things added to him, but nothing was removed, or at least not any big parts. In FC, they were plucking out their eye or chopping of their arms and then adding the Borg parts. Maybe it was a different method of assimilation. Plus, I don't remember anything about Borg nanites in BOBW.
The nanites seem like a logical development of the technology, but that makes me wonder if the Borg are those converted people or the Nanites are the Borg themselves and the drones are just infected people, like the Borg is a virus.
The nanites seem like a logical development of the technology, but that makes me wonder if the Borg are those converted people or the Nanites are the Borg themselves and the drones are just infected people, like the Borg is a virus.
The intent in "BoBW" was for one of Picard's arms to have been removed - either as part of the original Borg surgery, or then at a later scene where Data rips off said arm when strugging with Locutus. There would have been a makeup job to show a seam in Picard's arm at the conclusion of the adventure, too (a seam that might have disappeared by the next episode).
They didn't do the makeup seam, and instead of hand amputation, the start of Part II shows him being fitted with a glove. But he does get greyed out by an injection, which in retrospect may be read as a dose of nanites. And the glove that originally fit around his hand breaks off in a struggle with Data at the lab - but at a point that was supposed to be around his hand originally (although of course the costume he wears doesn't convince anybody that his wrist would really have been severed).
Timo Saloniemi
They didn't do the makeup seam, and instead of hand amputation, the start of Part II shows him being fitted with a glove. But he does get greyed out by an injection, which in retrospect may be read as a dose of nanites. And the glove that originally fit around his hand breaks off in a struggle with Data at the lab - but at a point that was supposed to be around his hand originally (although of course the costume he wears doesn't convince anybody that his wrist would really have been severed).
Timo Saloniemi
It's equally likely that Species 1 through Species 127 are the non-sapient species' from the Borg homeworld, and the dominant species decided it didn't matter where they were in the lineup, as long as all the pertinent species' get cataloged.
The highest Species numbers run into five digits. Surely the inclusion of nonhumanoid nonsapients would dictate at least eight or nine digits, even when omitting those species that in Trek generally don't qualify as "life" (plants, insects)?
In any case, there are sapient species listed with numbers lower than that of the Queen (finally looked it up, it's actually S 125).
Timo Saloniemi
In any case, there are sapient species listed with numbers lower than that of the Queen (finally looked it up, it's actually S 125).
Timo Saloniemi
The Shatner/Reeves-Stevens post-ST:FC novel Avenger addresses this issue somewhat, taking place not long after the events of the movie -- there's some discussion about how the Enterprise-E had to be "de-Borgified," and the lower-decks cleanup that occurred when the starship returned to its home time-period.
I like the thought that the Borg are initially just the nanites, all linked together, searching for information and growing. So does Star Trek Continues.....
It would have been more fitting to see the "D" go down in this movie, anyways; Much more epic and worthwhile then Generations.
I'd have to agree with that. As for the idea that kids and civilians get assimilated... It's too close to the Dominion War... And they were fighting the Klingons. Starfleet might've kicked families off starships during wartime.
So far as assimilated drones being able to be de-assimilated and then being able to adapt sufficiently to return to their former lives, I think it depends a lot on how old they were when assimilated and how long they were drones. Seven of Nine was a young child when assimilated and had been raised by the Borg, spending the majority of life as a Borg. This is why she had so much trouble adapting when her link to the Collective was severed, and why her reaction to her returning memories during her previous separation from the link was so different from the other drones in her work group in Survival Instinct.
Compare it to people who are released from prison after spending much or most of their lives in prison. They often have a very hard time adjusting to life in the outside world again: having to make decisions for themselves again, the normal responsibilities of getting and keeping jobs, mundane necessary activities of everyday life, etc. In prison, all decisions were made for them and they didn't have to think about or attend to these things. So, many of these people end up back in prison, because it's familiar to them and they know what to do to fit in there.
So it would be for long time drones who are severed from the Collective. Those who do well are those who are fortunate enough to be put into a structured environment with set routines, and are given specific tasks which make them useful. This is no doubt why one of the very first requests Seven of Nine makes is to be given work to do.
Those several ex-drones who are left to shift for themselves in ambiguous, unstructured environments with no routines and nothing useful to do are the most likely to return to the Borg on their own and voluntarily seek re-assimilation.
And, in reference to comments above about the nanites being the Borg, I think its probably impossible to remove them 100% and where they can't reactivate and reproduce at some point in the future. For those ex-drones who do resume their lives as individuals, like Picard and Seven of Nine, the nanites remain, but lay dormant, until proper conditions reactivate them to greater or lesser degrees, depending on how long the person was a drone and how soon after de-assimilated it is. This would explain the difference in their reactions to relevant stimuli it was for Picard and Seven of Nine in Raven. Picard merely hears whispers from the Collective, where Seven leaves the ship to try to return to the Collective when merely coming within range of that homing beacon. In essence, then, drones may leave the Collective, but they'll always be Borg on some level, to a greater or lesser degree and however dormant it may be.
Compare it to people who are released from prison after spending much or most of their lives in prison. They often have a very hard time adjusting to life in the outside world again: having to make decisions for themselves again, the normal responsibilities of getting and keeping jobs, mundane necessary activities of everyday life, etc. In prison, all decisions were made for them and they didn't have to think about or attend to these things. So, many of these people end up back in prison, because it's familiar to them and they know what to do to fit in there.
So it would be for long time drones who are severed from the Collective. Those who do well are those who are fortunate enough to be put into a structured environment with set routines, and are given specific tasks which make them useful. This is no doubt why one of the very first requests Seven of Nine makes is to be given work to do.
Those several ex-drones who are left to shift for themselves in ambiguous, unstructured environments with no routines and nothing useful to do are the most likely to return to the Borg on their own and voluntarily seek re-assimilation.
And, in reference to comments above about the nanites being the Borg, I think its probably impossible to remove them 100% and where they can't reactivate and reproduce at some point in the future. For those ex-drones who do resume their lives as individuals, like Picard and Seven of Nine, the nanites remain, but lay dormant, until proper conditions reactivate them to greater or lesser degrees, depending on how long the person was a drone and how soon after de-assimilated it is. This would explain the difference in their reactions to relevant stimuli it was for Picard and Seven of Nine in Raven. Picard merely hears whispers from the Collective, where Seven leaves the ship to try to return to the Collective when merely coming within range of that homing beacon. In essence, then, drones may leave the Collective, but they'll always be Borg on some level, to a greater or lesser degree and however dormant it may be.
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I am talking about the scene where Picard, Wolf and Hawk were outside the ship attempting to eject the deflector dish. What did that Borg do to assimilate Hawk so quickly? Are all individual Borgs capable of assimilating their victims?
And why didn't Hawk's biological flesh, that was exposed to space, disintegrate or explode or incur whatever damage flesh would be subject to by being exposed to space? Furthermore, why didn't any of the other Borg's flesh get damaged by being exposed to space?
While it may take some time to successfully de-assimilate, assimilation, in contrast, seem to happen awfully fast. One minute crewman Hawk was human, but the next minute, he was already full Borg, able and willing to take on Picard.
I am talking about the scene where Picard, Wolf and Hawk were outside the ship attempting to eject the deflector dish. What did that Borg do to assimilate Hawk so quickly? Are all individual Borgs capable of assimilating their victims?
And why didn't Hawk's biological flesh, that was exposed to space, disintegrate or explode or incur whatever damage flesh would be subject to by being exposed to space? Furthermore, why didn't any of the other Borg's flesh get damaged by being exposed to space?
Watching the film on Friday night I also wondered what happened to the drone who assimilated Hawk. I know there's a short story in one of the Strange New Worlds anthologies which explains what happens there, but in the context of the film it does seem odd that he just disappears.
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