"Far Beyond The Stars"

[Apogeal Alpha01]

There are others who have been in space. One, who I can't recall by name at the moment, (Curzon isn't it, is it?) has flown more than a couple of missions. If we were to send anyone to the moon these days, I'm pretty sure race wouldn't play a part in a decision not to include certain personal. Fact is, we haven't sent anyone in a great while.

 

[Red Ranger]

People,

Well, "Far Beyond the Stars" is such a great episode because it works on so many levels. To me, I think one of the reasons DSN is underappreciated is because a black man is the lead character. And I feel the ep is a direct refutation of that mindset among some fans even in the 1990s. It's an allegory criticizing some of that fan backlash based on simple-minded views of what roles people of color should play in SF.

I've had this discussion with other people of color on this and other SF boards, but there seems to be a whole subset of fans in ST and other series unable to open their minds to people of color playing leading roles, or any non-traditional roles, in the various ST series. Every once in awhile, I see ignorant comments about Tim Russ playing a Vulcan, along the lines of, "How can he play a Vulcan? Vulcans aren't black!" Oy!

Let me give you an example from my real life. I worked in an office as a journalist with some younger guys. We all worked on financial publications, and most of these young guys were your typical sports-obsessed frustrated jock types -- the ones who measure manliness by sports acumen, even if they themselves don't possess it. I remember one of these smug bastards, against ST in general, derisively refer to DSN on more than one occasion as the "one with the black guy." Guffaws at his anti-PC rant ensued.

I also like how we're not completely sure whether Benny Russell actually existed or if he's a figment of Ben Sisko's imagination -- or if Ben Sikso himself is a figment of Benny Russell's imagination. It's been awhile since I've seen the ep, but I remember getting that impression.

RR

 

[Mike Have-Not]

^

Totally off topic, but that chick in your profile pic...

 

[Red Ranger]

Mike Have-Not said:
^

Totally off topic, but that chick in your profile pic...

Yeah, thanks. I think so, too! If you Google "Scarlett" and "Puerto Rican dancer," you can see what her whole bod look like. (Please do this on your home PC and not in front of minors!) Depending on your tastes, you may or may not dig her. Hope so!

 

[Mike Have-Not]

^ Oh, I've seen more pics of her! Didn't you have a link to a site with her on it at some point?

I dig!

But, back to the topic, I just watched the Mini-doc about "FBTS" on the DVD special features. It seems this is a favorite episode of quite a few of the cast and crew as well

 

[Red Ranger]

Mike Have-Not said:
^ Oh, I've seen more pics of her! Didn't you have a link to a site with her on it at some point?

I dig!

But, back to the topic, I just watched the Mini-doc about "FBTS" on the DVD special features. It seems this is a favorite episode of quite a few of the cast and crew as well

Mike Have-Not:

Yeah, I dig Scarlett the most! I never would put in a link here, though, as there are some underage users who just aren't ready for her pulchritude -- not to mention the legal denizens of this BBS not being able to handle it, either!

And back on topic, I think another reason why "FBTS" is so popular is because it's unlike any ep either in DSN or any other ST series in how it deals with the issues of racism and what is and is not acceptable for people to do if they're members of a minority group.

And let's face it, it was probably a relief for the cast members who had to wear lots of makeup to forgo that for a change, not to mention the challenge of being different characters in the same show. Any actor would love that task!

RR

 

[MyCylon]

I just rewatched this one myself. I think it's an amazing episode with a powerful story and great performances all around. I personally liked both Dorn's and Lofton's performances.

I also think the breakdown scene is very powerful and moving. You can see years of repression, hopelessness and exasperation coming out all at once after such a painful fall.

"You are the dreamer and the dream."

 

[archeryguy1701]

I recently saw this one for the first time when I got the Captain's Log collection, and I was very impressed. It is a very good story and I felt like everyone gave some of their top performances in it. Incredibly thought provoking

I thought it was interesting the point of Avery Brooks' acting came up a little earlier... of all the series, I think I liked Sisko and the way AB played him the most. I know he was compared to Shatner a little earlier, but it seems like their acting styles are very different. Shatner was just kinda corney, while Brooks seemed to have brought a valid level of emotion to Sisko that we never really saw in any other Captain, or even character for that matter. Far Beyond the Stars just gave him the opportunity to run the whole gaunlet of emotional levels and it was fun to watch

 

[Tactical Drone]

Plissken said:
That scene was good. Brooks did approach a level of Shatness now and again, and it was refreshing. Too bad the rest of the series pretty much sucked.

Nice to come into a DS9 forum and 50% of your post is to bash DS9. That wasn't even a necessary comment.

Back on topic
I really enjoyed the episode. It was very interesting to see the actors we've seen all along out of make-up playing different people. Kinda interesting how Dukat and Weyoun's characters were still "bad guys" in this episode. I agree that Jake's character in this episode was almost a polar opposite of Jake himself. Jake is optimistic while his 50's persona was very pessimistic. But then again, there's a huge difference between the almost hopeless and pessimistic 1950's world, especially for a black person and the bright and hopeful 24th century.

 

[RandyS]

You know, to this day, I don't understand this episode. Oh, I got the social commentary on the treatment of black people in the fifties alright, but the plot, huh?

As I understand it, Sisko is depressed because a friend is killed in the war. Fine, but then he is suddenly transported to Earth in the 1950's and how is NEVER explained. Was he hallucinating? Drunk? Was it a vision from the Prophets? This was never made clear, and made the episode incomprehensible to me.

 

[MyCylon]

^
There is a clear reference to the episode "Rapture" where Sisko is receiving visions from the Prophets. In both cases, Dr. Bashir discovers unusual neural activity in Sisko's brain.
Also, the preacher in the 50's setting tells Benny several times to speak the words of the Prophets which given DS9's setting would appear to be a reference to Bajor's Prophets.

So, I think it's pretty safe to say this is a vision received from the Prophets. I'd also add that it's not simply the death of his friend that's dragging down Sisko - it's the whole situation which is really a lot for one person to bear. His friends death really just is the last straw to break the camel's back.

 

[serdogthehound]

I read somewhere that the last shot for DS9 was going to be Benny holding the sript to "What you leve behind" but in was changed at the last minute

 

[cueballb]

RandyS said:
You know, to this day, I don't understand this episode. Oh, I got the social commentary on the treatment of black people in the fifties alright, but the plot, huh?

As I understand it, Sisko is depressed because a friend is killed in the war. Fine, but then he is suddenly transported to Earth in the 1950's and how is NEVER explained. Was he hallucinating? Drunk? Was it a vision from the Prophets? This was never made clear, and made the episode incomprehensible to me.

Sisko thought about leaving starfleet. The prophets didn't like that because then the Sisko would not be able to fulfil his destiny on DS9, so they gave him a vision that parallelled his strugle on DS9, to win against the opression and destruction brought by the Pah Wraiths with the struggle of the black man in 1950, giving him again clear perspective, saying that he matters to much to quit, just as his stories about a future for black people matters. A metafore for the fight against evil and to fight for justice.

 

[Mike Have-Not]

^ Well put

 

[RandyS]

cueballb said:

RandyS said:
You know, to this day, I don't understand this episode. Oh, I got the social commentary on the treatment of black people in the fifties alright, but the plot, huh?

As I understand it, Sisko is depressed because a friend is killed in the war. Fine, but then he is suddenly transported to Earth in the 1950's and how is NEVER explained. Was he hallucinating? Drunk? Was it a vision from the Prophets? This was never made clear, and made the episode incomprehensible to me.

Sisko thought about leaving starfleet. The prophets didn't like that because then the Sisko would not be able to fulfil his destiny on DS9, so they gave him a vision that parallelled his strugle on DS9, to win against the opression and destruction brought by the Pah Wraiths with the struggle of the black man in 1950, giving him again clear perspective, saying that he matters to much to quit, just as his stories about a future for black people matters. A metafore for the fight against evil and to fight for justice.

Interesting.

Okay, thanks.

 

[HRHTheKING]

A superb episode.

Avery Brooks was tremendous in the breakdown scene.

 

[Red Ranger]

Justtoyourleft said:
^
There is a clear reference to the episode "Rapture" where Sisko is receiving visions from the Prophets. In both cases, Dr. Bashir discovers unusual neural activity in Sisko's brain.
Also, the preacher in the 50's setting tells Benny several times to speak the words of the Prophets which given DS9's setting would appear to be a reference to Bajor's Prophets.

So, I think it's pretty safe to say this is a vision received from the Prophets. I'd also add that it's not simply the death of his friend that's dragging down Sisko - it's the whole situation which is really a lot for one person to bear. His friends death really just is the last straw to break the camel's back.

People,

One of the things I like about the ep is that it's left open to the viewer's interpretation. Was Sisko's experience just a hallucination fed to him by the Prophets? Was it the memories of an ancestor of Sisko's? I like to think it was a combination -- the Prophets unlocked an ancestral memory buried deep in Sisko's subconscious -- but elements of his current life spilled into the "vision." And I also like to think that the vision went both ways in time, that Benny somehow tapped into the memories of his descendant, Ben Sisko, and that inspired his rejected story.

Red Ranger

 

[Mike Have-Not]

Everyone who really likes this episode should DEFINITELY check out the Novelization.

It adds a LOT to the story...

The above post made me remember about it. In the book version, it is fairly clear that Benny Russel did, in fact, exist...

 

[Red Ranger]

Mike Have-Not said:
Everyone who really likes this episode should DEFINITELY check out the Novelization.

It adds a LOT to the story...

The above post made me remember about it. In the book version, it is fairly clear that Benny Russel did, in fact, exist...

Ahhh! Now that is interesting! I may have to read it now! -- RR

 

[Nebusj]

Red Ranger said:
And I also like to think that the vision went both ways in time, that Benny somehow tapped into the memories of his descendant, Ben Sisko, and that inspired his rejected story.

I don't generally like the convention of ``this author was writing down the stuff that happened in a parallel universe only he could sense'', even though it's been pretty popular as a way of getting into a `fictional' universe ever since Flash discovered Earth-Two. It's kind of cute, but it also replaces the creative process and the originality and work required to do something lasting with being a passive observer who got lucky.