Far Beyond the Stars

[Alienesse]

^ Yeah, the ending that we saw was the best they could have gone with.

This is also one of my favorite Trek episodes ever and I view it as a story about the condition of the writer, about the personal investment a writer makes when creating a new world through his stories. That last scene with Sisko looking out at the stars and at his own reflection as Benny in the window, plus the fascinating philosophical implications of Sisko's discussion with his father towards the end of the episode seems to validate that interpretation. I found the ending comforting from this point of view because it showed the "characters" in Benny's story alive and existing on their own. So, even if we were to accept DS9 as a construct of Benny Russell's imagination, it doesn't really matter because it has become real. And that means that Benny has succeeded in his creative endeavor, much as those who have created Star Trek have managed in theirs by making the Trek universe so believable that all of us "real" people are here right now talking about it.

 

[CoveTom]

Definitely would have hated the Benny Russell ending. As someone else pointed out, not only would it have been frustrating as a Trek fan because of its implications to the entire Trek universe, but it also would have felt very much a copycat of St. Elsewhere, and I'm sure it would have been roundly criticized as such. DS9 was always the Trek series that dared to be bold and take risks, but this would have actually run counter to that by doing a retread of an ending that another show did.

Oh, and regarding Buffy, they should have ended it with her death at the end of Season 5 and not even bothered with those last two craptastic seasons. But that's a topic for another thread...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The ending would've been crap because Deep Space Nine is not the only Trek series.

So what? It would have been charming and memorable.

What was the actual finale? I forget.

 

[Non-Beard Riker]

The ending would've been crap because Deep Space Nine is not the only Trek series.

So what? It would have been charming and memorable.

What was the actual finale? I forget.

And what would've been the point? Deep Space Nine is not real, it's the product of imagination? Well, yes, that's what it is. The result of writers. Who would've thought that.

 

[USS Excelsior]

Then we saw Benny Russell continuing to write the story on the walls of a mental institution, maybe they could have ended the show in the lockup room instead.

 

[USS Excelsior]

Also we'd end up getting stuck with this debate.....




[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lHgbbM9pu4[/yt]

 

[Navaros]

Of course, if it had ended like that, the question would be "did Benny Russell create TNG and Voyager as well?"

And the answer would be "No." DS9's is it's own show, it doesn't need to be unequally yoked with shows like TNG or Voyager. Benny creating DS9 need not mean that he created other shows too. The writers' excuse that they had to give FBTS a lackluster ending based on the assumption that if Benny created DS9, he also created all of Trek, is an erroneous one, and therefore should have been discarded. The Benny creating DS9 ending is way better than the ending they ended up using.

Having said that, FBTS is still a great episode.

However, in addition to the lackluster ending, it also suffers from being too ambitious for its running-time. FBTS really needed to be a two or three-parter to do its concept and its ambitions justice.

DS9 was always the Trek series that dared to be bold and take risks, but this would have actually run counter to that by doing a retread of an ending that another show did.

Virtually everything in all of Trek is a retread of something else, as is virtually all fiction in general. Most likely, the ending of the show you refer to was also retreaded from elsewhere too.

The ending they used in FBTS runs counter to what you said: it is not bold at all, and takes no risk. Having Benny create DS9 - that would have been a bold and great risk.

 

[Son of Quark]

Of course, if it had ended like that, the question would be "did Benny Russell create TNG and Voyager as well?"

And the answer would be "No." DS9's is it's own show, it doesn't need to be unequally yoked with shows like TNG or Voyager. Benny creating DS9 need not mean that he created other shows too. The writers' excuse that they had to give FBTS a lackluster ending based on the assumption that if Benny created DS9, he also created all of Trek, is an erroneous one, and therefore should have been discarded. The Benny creating DS9 ending is way better than the ending they ended up using.

Having said that, FBTS is still a great episode.

However, in addition to the lackluster ending, it also suffers from being too ambitious for its running-time. FBTS really needed to be a two or three-parter to do its concept and its ambitions justice.

DS9 was always the Trek series that dared to be bold and take risks, but this would have actually run counter to that by doing a retread of an ending that another show did.

Virtually everything in all of Trek is a retread of something else, as is virtually all fiction in general. Most likely, the ending of the show you refer to was also retreaded from elsewhere too.

The ending they used in FBTS runs counter to what you said: it is not bold at all, and takes no risk. Having Benny create DS9 - that would have been a bold and great risk.

Navaros, you make some very valid points and I agree with all of them. If they ended the series with Benny at his typewriter, that would have been a bold, mind blowing move, in my opinion.

 

[Myasishchev]

The ending would've been crap because Deep Space Nine is not the only Trek series. And also this "is it real or not?" thing is quite lame in most cases, especially in this one, because it has NO impact on the story at all, I mean, a TV series is already just a dream, so it's a dream of a dream and it doesn't make any difference at all.

The scenario only works if it actually interacts with the story, like in "Total Recall".

It's worked the five billion times Grant Morrison has done it. Worked in Newhart, too.

In any event, they should have tied in the Benny Russell thing more tightly to the ultimately crappy Pah Wraiths ending, given that they were going in that direction. There are more interpretations than "purely fictional" to the Russell thing anyway, given its connection to the Prophets.

Oh well, as a standalone, "Far Beyond the Stars" is one of the best Trek episodes ever. And Brooks isn't overacting: anyone who's seen a nervous breakdown knows it's pretty accurate.

Of course, if it had ended like that, the question would be "did Benny Russell create... Voyager as well?"

No, Benny Russell was a good writer. *rimshot*

 

[sonak]

great episode, but as for the "benny russell writing a book ending would've been so great!" posters, that's been done to the point of cliche as others have pointed out. It's basically just a slightly different take on the "it was all a dream" trope.

for other references see "Bob Newheart, "St. Elsewhere," "Normal Again" on BTVS, etc..

by the time of DS9's finale, it would've been a tired retread to do that kind of show.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Of course, if it had ended like that, the question would be "did Benny Russell create TNG and Voyager as well?"

And the answer would be "No." DS9's is it's own show, it doesn't need to be unequally yoked with shows like TNG or Voyager. Benny creating DS9 need not mean that he created other shows too. The writers' excuse that they had to give FBTS a lackluster ending based on the assumption that if Benny created DS9, he also created all of Trek, is an erroneous one

How do you figure?

DS9 was, and is, a show set in the Trek universe. If DS9 existed only in Benny's mind, then by extension, the entire Trek 'verse does as well. How could it be otherwise?

Hell, DS9 had crossovers with every Trek show except Enterprise:

- TNG, Birthright
- VOY, Caretaker
- Trials and Tribble-ations

It's not exactly on the level of Tommy Westphall, but close. (That gets a free pass, since the fact that Tommy dreamt the entire show does not mean there couldn't be a real St. Eligius. And indeed there MUST be one, since Tommy could not possibly have dreamed all of the crossovers with the show.)

 

[Listener4]

This is one of my absolute favorite episodes. Probably in the top ten of DS9.

 

[CoveTom]

It's true that all fiction is, in some sense, a retread of something that has been done before. But there is a big difference between a story that uses concepts and themes that have been done before and one which the audience would immediately identify as "hey, that's the same thing they did on St. Elsewhere".

 

[MikeS]

Having never heard of St. Elsewhere until reading this thread, I can honestly say that I would have thought it a very original and thought-provoking ending back in '96. Nowadays it's been done a million times.

I can understand why the writers didn't go with it. Just wipe out all of Roddenberry's universe at the stroke of a pen may have been too much for some fans to stomach. Look at some of the arguements on here about canon!