Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

[gblews]

If you didn't know who Jessica Alba was, her Sue Storm was okay.

I agree. They could always have hired a better actor to play the part but JA did an okay job. So much of the butthurt I'v heard about this casting has had to do with JA's race, anyway.

I liked the first FF movie more than I liked Batman Begins. I thought it was closer to being what it should have been than BB was. Plus FF 1 didn't put me to sleep.

In another FF thread, someone suggested Cristolph Waltz as Doom. If that poster is in this thread, he or she should stand up and take a bow.

I like the idea of mocap for the Thing. With the tech they have now, it is just like wearing prosthetics and lots of make-up. I think it is a good compromise between real life actor in a suit and big old clobberin' time Ben.

But because the FF are such over the top characters -- they have no secret identities, live in a lavish building in the middle of Manhatten, have huge fights with super villains in the middle of Manhatten, making a good one will not be easy. Even though the second FF was a disappointment, I thought it captured the group's public image very well.

 

[Christopher]

If you didn't know who Jessica Alba was, her Sue Storm was okay.

I don't know what that means. Are you saying that you think she had a bad reputation that negatively colored people's perceptions of her in the role? That wasn't the case with me. I had no reason to be biased against her. I recall having been unimpressed by her on Dark Angel, but I was open to the possibility that she'd improved since then -- and she was so hot that I really wanted to like her. And yet I found her performance unimpressive.

I also didn't think she was a good fit to the character. Perhaps it would be better to say that if you didn't know who Sue Storm was, Alba's Sue was okay. But if you knew what a powerful, mature, impressive figure she's become in the comics, Alba's version just seemed insubstantial by comparison.

They could always have hired a better actor to play the part but JA did an okay job.

The problem is that it was just an "okay" job. "Okay" isn't good enough for the Fantastic Four. Plenty about the FF movies was okay, but they were okay movies in an era of great superhero movies. The FF should be the crown jewel of the Marvel Universe, not an also-ran.

So much of the butthurt I'v heard about this casting has had to do with JA's race, anyway.

My problem was more with Chris Evans's race. I'm not opposed in principle to the idea of Sue Storm being Hispanic, but if so, shouldn't Johnny have been Hispanic too?

And again, my lack of regard for Alba's talent as an actress has nothing to do with her race, because I'm not a bigot or a moron, thank you very much. I like her ethnicity. It looks fantastic on her. And I like seeing diverse casts in general. But Jessica Alba just can't act very well.

I liked the first FF movie more than I liked Batman Begins. I thought it was closer to being what it should have been than BB was.

At least BB was about its protagonist actually becoming a hero. The FF didn't really do anything heroic in their first movie. They were mainly just dealing with their own personal issues, and endangering other people in the process. Okay, when they inadvertently caused the disaster on the bridge, they did manage to save the lives they'd endangered, but it doesn't really count as heroism when you're responsible for the problem in the first place. Then the rest of the movie was about them defending themselves from Doom, who never seemed to have any specific malevolent agenda against anyone but the FF themselves. They weren't trying to stop him from taking over the world or destroying a city, just trying to stop him from killing the four of them. And in order to do so, they had Johnny risk igniting the atmosphere and killing everyone on the planet. So, to sum up, the FF risked the destruction of all life on Earth in service to their own self-interest. That means the FF were actually the villains of their own movie.

Even though the second FF was a disappointment, I thought it captured the group's public image very well.

I liked the second movie significantly more than the first. At least they actually helped other people there.

 

[theenglish]

If you didn't know who Jessica Alba was, her Sue Storm was okay.

I agree. They could always have hired a better actor to play the part but JA did an okay job. So much of the butthurt I'v heard about this casting has had to do with JA's race, anyway.

That might have been the criticism, but the truth is that JA doesn't really look any different than a brown eyed brunette from Ireland. She easily "looked" the part. The problem is that she is just a sh***y actress. I remember when the Cameron television series started and Cameron was saying that he hired the best actress for the part. I laughed because I couldn't believe that somebody better didn't try out for it.

The problem with the movies was entirely (100%) a problem with the scripts, not the director, effects, acting or production.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My problem was more with Chris Evans's race. I'm not opposed in principle to the idea of Sue Storm being Hispanic, but if so, shouldn't Johnny have been Hispanic too?

And again, my lack of regard for Alba's talent as an actress has nothing to do with her race, because I'm not a bigot or a moron, thank you very much. I like her ethnicity. It looks fantastic on her. And I like seeing diverse casts in general. But Jessica Alba just can't act very well.

The problem is Hispanic isn't a race. Hispanics can look like Chris Evans. And Alba's background is Mexican, Danish and French Canadian. Why single out the Mexican part?

That said, no she's not a good actress and she was miscast as Sue. Sue should not look younger than her kid brother.

 

[Christopher]

That might have been the criticism, but the truth is that JA doesn't really look any different than a brown eyed brunette from Ireland. She easily "looked" the part.

Not to me. Her complexion didn't look remotely Irish. If anything, dyeing her hair blond brought out her skin tone even more by contrast.

The problem is Hispanic isn't a race. Hispanics can look like Chris Evans. And Alba's background is Mexican, Danish and French Canadian. Why single out the Mexican part?

Because they don't look related. I don't give a damn which ethnicity they are in real life, but they're supposed to be brother and sister, so they should look like brother and sister, and they didn't. Don't read anything more into it than that. I wouldn't care if one of them was Hispanic and the other not if they actually looked like they were siblings. Hell, I would've been perfectly happy if they'd cast both of them as black, or Chinese, or Pakistani, or anything, as long as they looked like they were closely related to one another. But they didn't. Not to me.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That might have been the criticism, but the truth is that JA doesn't really look any different than a brown eyed brunette from Ireland. She easily "looked" the part.

Not to me. Her complexion didn't look remotely Irish. If anything, dyeing her hair blond brought out her skin tone even more by contrast.

The problem is Hispanic isn't a race. Hispanics can look like Chris Evans. And Alba's background is Mexican, Danish and French Canadian. Why single out the Mexican part?

Because they don't look related. I don't give a damn which ethnicity they are in real life, but they're supposed to be brother and sister, so they should look like brother and sister, and they didn't. Don't read anything more into it than that. I wouldn't care if one of them was Hispanic and the other not if they actually looked like they were siblings. Hell, I would've been perfectly happy if they'd cast both of them as black, or Chinese, or Pakistani, or anything, as long as they looked like they were closely related to one another But they didn't. Not to me.

It's pretty rare that actors cast as siblings look related. Do Al Pacino and James Caan look related? Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher? Mathew Broderick and Jennifer Grey?

Occasionally there are bits of inspired bits of casting, like Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey as brothers in EdTV.

 

[Gaith]

^ And now Christopher will surely point out that no one thought Luke and Leia were siblings at the time of their casting in 3... 2... 1...


... This thread has too few Alba in costume pics, almost none of which were filmed in 3D. For shame.

 

[Trekker4747]

^ And now Christopher will surely point out that no one thought Luke and Leia were siblings at the time of their casting in 3... 2... 1...

Well, further more, no one KNEW Luke and Leia were siblings when Episode IV or even when Episode V was made. Lucas didn't pull that out of his ass until at least the third draft of Episode VI written the night before filming began.

I think "requiring" actors playing siblings looking a like is too much, it's pretty much never happened at all in all of media. We could probably sit here and point out numerous and countless places where it's not happened.

Obviously they should at least be the same skin color and stuff like that but that's probably as far as you should go. I had no problem accepting Susan and Johnny Storm as being siblings on looks alone. In the way the interacted between one another? A tad. In the way Susan acted and was supposed to be the older sibling? Sure.

Looks? Never entered my mind, siblings looking different is one of those Hollywood tropes we deal with. Like actors in their 30s playing high-schoolers, it's just part of the way things work in Hollywood.

You cast people based on how well they can play the part and also maybe in how much of an audience they can draw in. If they felt Alba was the best woman for the job they weren't going to turn her down because she kinda doesn't look like Chris Evans.

 

[theenglish]

Because they don't look related. I don't give a damn which ethnicity they are in real life, but they're supposed to be brother and sister, so they should look like brother and sister, and they didn't. Don't read anything more into it than that. I wouldn't care if one of them was Hispanic and the other not if they actually looked like they were siblings. Hell, I would've been perfectly happy if they'd cast both of them as black, or Chinese, or Pakistani, or anything, as long as they looked like they were closely related to one another. But they didn't. Not to me.

I find that a little offensive. My wife's siblings have a range of color from dark coffee brown to pale white. My twin children, hispanic/canadian, have two entirely different complexions, neither of which resembles my wife or me. Yet the two of them still call that pinkish crayon skin color despite my best efforts. I have sat them down and put our three arms together to show that we all have different skin tones. My daughter's hair is almost as blonde as the dyed Alba in the movies and her skin is darker than Alba's.

Throughout latin america skin tone varies...a lot and within families.

And Alba's skin tone is so pale that she could be from any European country.

What's more is that in the comics there is nothing to suggest what ethnicity "Storm" is.

Really, Christopher, I agree with a lot of your opinions but as a writer I would expect you to be more observant about the variety of physiology in the world.

 

[Nerys Myk]

If they ever give Amy Farah Fowler a sister on the Big Bang Theory, Eden Sher would be a natural. And of course Penny's sister should be played by Linda Park.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm pretty sure that their dad was a Nazi sympathizer.

 

[theenglish]

If they ever give Amy Farah Fowler a sister on the Big Bang Theory, Eden Sher would be a natural. And of course Penny's sister should be played by Linda Park.

Right, and how would this be different than Linda Park playing a Japanese character?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm pretty sure that their dad was a Nazi sympathizer.

Who's dad? Luke and Leia? Michael and Sonny? Ferris and Jeanie?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

And, regarding Ben's cure, it seems that the real simple explanation would be that the cure could work but something disastrous has to happen. Like a life has to be traded for a life or something; or it was only Doom's physiology that made the machine work in the first place.

Well, that doesn't make it a sacrifice, just makes him feel guilty. The most straight forward thing would be that he chooses not to cure himself in order to save the day and the cure is lost in the process. Although I don't think they need to have a cure at all.

 

[theenglish]

And, regarding Ben's cure, it seems that the real simple explanation would be that the cure could work but something disastrous has to happen. Like a life has to be traded for a life or something; or it was only Doom's physiology that made the machine work in the first place.

Well, that doesn't make it a sacrifice, just makes him feel guilty. The most straight forward thing would be that he chooses not to cure himself in order to save the day and the cure is lost in the process. Although I don't think they need to have a cure at all.

Agreed. In fact, both your suggestions and mine have been used in various stories. In the comics, Ben has had many cures, all of which have failed for one reason or another.

 

[Christopher]

And Alba's skin tone is so pale that she could be from any European country.

When she's a brunette, I can see that. But dyeing her hair blond made her look more Latina to me than she usually does, somehow. Maybe all I'm saying is that she didn't look natural as a blonde.

But like I said, my problem was more with Evans's lack of resemblance to Alba than the reverse. I resent the way everyone's trying to read some kind of ugly racism into my words, making the false assumption that it was Alba's ethnicity I had a problem with. All I'm saying is that to me, in that movie, Alba and Evans didn't look related. I'm not saying anything about what's possible in real life, because we're not talking about real life, we're talking about a work of fiction, and it's about impressions. As a rule, if you're casting siblings, you try to cast them to resemble each other. That's not a race thing, it's just a general casting thing. As I've said over and over, I would've been fine with recasting either Johnny or Sue, or both. It is not about Alba specifically the way the rest of you keep trying to make it. I'm sorry if I inadvertently reminded you of some issues that are troubling to you, but that wasn't my intention. Obviously I've miscommunicated something. This is becoming a bigger deal than I ever intended. It's not that important to me, just a subjective impression. And I'm certainly willing to concede that my impressions could be in error. So maybe we should just wrap it up and move on.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^Well, if it helps any, I've read enough of your posts to know that you're definitely not racist or prejudiced in any way.

I didn't find Evans and Alba convincing as siblings either, in the same way that I didn't find Sean Connery, Dustin Hoffman and Matthew Broderick convincing as grandfather, father and (grand)son.

 

[Greg Cox]

^Well, if it helps any, I've read enough of your posts to know that you're definitely not racist or prejudiced in any way.

I didn't find Evans and Alba convincing as siblings either, in the same way that I didn't find Sean Connery, Dustin Hoffman and Matthew Broderick convincing as grandfather, father and (grand)son.

Whenever we watch the original 1941 version of The Wolf Man, my girlfriend always snickers at the idea that Claude Rains (small, delicate, and British) is supposed to be the father of Lon Chaney Jr. (big, burly, and American).

Granted, they throw in a line of dialogue about how Lon was educated in America . . . .

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Clearly the makers of the more recent version felt the need to continue the trend by casting Anthony Hopkins as the father of Benicio Del Toro!

 

[Christopher]

^Well, if it helps any, I've read enough of your posts to know that you're definitely not racist or prejudiced in any way.

Thank you.

I didn't find Evans and Alba convincing as siblings either, in the same way that I didn't find Sean Connery, Dustin Hoffman and Matthew Broderick convincing as grandfather, father and (grand)son.

What movie was that?

I'm not sure I buy Shia LaBeouf as Harrison Ford and Karen Allen's son in the fourth Indiana Jones movie either. Although it's not as bad a mismatch as trying to pass off Sean Patrick Flanery as a younger version of Indy himself. River Phoenix was utterly convincing as a younger Ford in Last Crusade, but Flanery looked and sounded nothing like either of them. (I wonder, if Phoenix hadn't died so young, would he have played Young Indy in the show? He would've been the right age by then, I think.)