Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

[D Man]

It's always funny to watch the open minded, enlightened and intellectual switch gears when something they're attached to does something liklike cast a Black man in role previously played by a white man.

I can't speak for everyone complaining, BUT I'm not complaint about a "black man in a role ....". My problem is that Sue and Johnny have ALWAYS been BIOLOGICAL brother and sister. A lot of dialog was written between them over decades that used that.

In this particular movie, they're not. Maybe there will be other dialogue that tells a different story. The end.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I can't see what difference them being or not being biological siblings would make to the film. Adopted siblings behave the same as any siblings, in my experience.

 

[Mudd]

It's always funny to watch the open minded, enlightened and intellectual switch gears when something they're attached to does something liklike cast a Black man in role previously played by a white man.

You'll never see a white man play a role that was always previously played by a black man. Shouldn't enlightenment go both ways?

 

[TRON JA307020]

You'll never see a white man play a role that was always previously played by a black man. Shouldn't enlightenment go both ways?

The obvious reasons for why this is not the same have been stated and restated here and elsewhere a 1000 times, but I wonder: When would that even be an issue? There just aren't that many iconic black characters whose skin color isn't an integral part of their character.

I will name a few comic book characters. Blade, Luke Cage aka Powwerman or Cage, John Stewart(3rd Green Lanter), Black Panther, amazing-man, the falcon etc.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's always funny to watch the open minded, enlightened and intellectual switch gears when something they're attached to does something liklike cast a Black man in role previously played by a white man.

I can't speak for everyone complaining, BUT I'm not complaint about a "black man in a role ....". My problem is that Sue and Johnny have ALWAYS been BIOLOGICAL brother and sister. A lot of dialog was written between them over decades that used that.

Is there really an abundance of dialog referencing the biological relationship between Johnny and Sue? Doesn't seem like something would crop up outside of a medical emergency. They call each other things like "sis" or "brother", but not with any qualifiers.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You'll never see a white man play a role that was always previously played by a black man. Shouldn't enlightenment go both ways?

The obvious reasons for why this is not the same have been stated and restated here and elsewhere a 1000 times, but I wonder: When would that even be an issue? There just aren't that many iconic black characters whose skin color isn't an integral part of their character.

I will name a few comic book characters. Blade, Luke Cage aka Powwerman or Cage, John Stewart(3rd Green Lanter), Black Panther, amazing-man, the falcon etc.

The Black Panther is the leader of an African nation. His powers are part of his culture. How is that not integral to his character?

The others back story have varying degrees of connection to being African American. Greater than Johnny Storms connection to being European American to be sure.

 

[JD]

I can't see what difference them being or not being biological siblings would make to the film. Adopted siblings behave the same as any siblings, in my experience.

The only times in stories where the distinction between biological siblings and adopted ones comes into play that I can think of is if the adopted sibling's parents come into play, if they are older and one is in love with the other, or if there is some kind of injury and one of them needs blood or an organ from a biological relative. The only one of those I could maybe see coming into play in FF is the third, and I doubt it will.

 

[TemporalFlux]

The Black Panther is the leader of an African nation. His powers are part of his culture. How is that not integral to his character?

No white people live in Africa?

 

[Enterprise is Great]

To me it doesn't matter if Johnny and Sue are biological or adopted siblings. My sister is adopted and there's ni distinction in my mind between her and my biologically related brother. All that matters is that Johnny and Sue love each other. That's what is important to both their characters not their being biological siblings.

 

[TRON JA307020]

The obvious reasons for why this is not the same have been stated and restated here and elsewhere a 1000 times, but I wonder: When would that even be an issue? There just aren't that many iconic black characters whose skin color isn't an integral part of their character.

I will name a few comic book characters. Blade, Luke Cage aka Powwerman or Cage, John Stewart(3rd Green Lanter), Black Panther, amazing-man, the falcon etc.

The Black Panther is the leader of an African nation. His powers are part of his culture. How is that not integral to his character?

The others back story have varying degrees of connection to being African American. Greater than Johnny Storms connection to being European American to be sure.

You'll say that about every character. The point is that there are a lot of great characters out there that are black. There is no reason to feel the need to make the whites one black. Its just the white liberal guild crowd that feels it is necessary. The white liberal guilt people feel that they are there to protect the interests of black people and that they are the only ones that can do it. Its ridiculously P.C. and foolish to believe that they want or need your help.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I'm trying to think of a role 'that was always previously played by a black man' - assuming that you mean roles played by numerous black actors over the years - and failing. Can you give examples?

The only one that immediately springs to mind is GALACTICA's Colonel Tighe. Only played twice in total, though.

One of the few. Colonel Tigh was a minor character in the original and didn't have much screen time. I am hard pressed to find a major character that is iconic that has been changed from black to white. Im sure there is one out there but I currently cannot think of one.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I will name a few comic book characters. Blade, Luke Cage aka Powwerman or Cage, John Stewart(3rd Green Lanter), Black Panther, amazing-man, the falcon etc.

The Black Panther is the leader of an African nation. His powers are part of his culture. How is that not integral to his character?

The others back story have varying degrees of connection to being African American. Greater than Johnny Storms connection to being European American to be sure.

You'll say that about every character. The point is that there are a lot of great characters out there that are black. There is no reason to feel the need to make the whites one black. Its just the white liberal guild crowd that feels it is necessary. The white liberal guilt people feel that they are there to protect the interests of black people and that they are the only ones that can do it. Its ridiculously P.C. and foolish to believe that they want or need your help.

What will I say? You've lost me there.

Spare me the white liberal guilt and PC accusations. You'll have to do better.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Black Panther is the leader of an African nation. His powers are part of his culture. How is that not integral to his character?

No white people live in Africa?

Did I say that? How many white Africans are hereditary tribal leaders? T'Challa's background is tied to being a black African. It's that simple.

 

[TRON JA307020]

The Black Panther is the leader of an African nation. His powers are part of his culture. How is that not integral to his character?

The others back story have varying degrees of connection to being African American. Greater than Johnny Storms connection to being European American to be sure.

You'll say that about every character. The point is that there are a lot of great characters out there that are black. There is no reason to feel the need to make the whites one black. Its just the white liberal guild crowd that feels it is necessary. The white liberal guilt people feel that they are there to protect the interests of black people and that they are the only ones that can do it. Its ridiculously P.C. and foolish to believe that they want or need your help.

What will I say? You've lost me there.

Spare me the white liberal guilt and PC accusations. You'll have to do better.

Its true. Hollywood is the white liberal guilt capital of the world. its usually a white director that will make a minor character that was white to black(i.e. Perry White in The Man of Steel). Its a way to make them feel better about themselves and also to say "hey see we believe in diversity". Unfortunately clueless directors who aren't fans of comics would already know there is a plethora of great black character waiting to be fleshed out on screen. Instead of changing anothers work why don't they use existing characters?


Its usually the white liberal guilt people that think there is nothing wrong with changing established white characters to black but everything wrong with changing established black characters to white. Double standard to be sure.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Its true. Hollywood is the white liberal guilt capital of the world. its usually a white director that will make a minor character that was white to black(i.e. Perry White in The Man of Steel). Its a way to make them feel better about themselves and also to say "hey see we believe in diversity". Unfortunately clueless directors who aren't fans of comics would already know there is a plethora of great black character waiting to be fleshed out on screen. Instead of changing anothers work why don't they use existing characters?


Its usually the white liberal guilt people that think there is nothing wrong with changing established white characters to black but everything wrong with changing established black characters to white. Double standard to be sure.

And what is the source of this "truth"? Have you done extensive studies? Been to a lot of casting meeting in Hollywood? Telepathically scanned the minds of everyone in Hollywood?

I don't know about you, but if I can get Edris Elba or Laurence Fishburne in my film, I'm jumping at the chance. Because they're Edris Elba and Laurence Fishburne! I'm not waiting for a "black role" to come along.

 

[theenglish]

You'll never see a white man play a role that was always previously played by a black man. Shouldn't enlightenment go both ways?

The obvious reasons for why this is not the same have been stated and restated here and elsewhere a 1000 times, but I wonder: When would that even be an issue? There just aren't that many iconic black characters whose skin color isn't an integral part of their character.

It would certainly be nice at some point in the future when we could live in a world where this is not an issue. Unfortunately, for all the reasons stated in this thread and many others (just look at the news), we are far from that point right now.

Its usually the white liberal guilt people that think there is nothing wrong with changing established white characters to black but everything wrong with changing established black characters to white. Double standard to be sure.

The truth of the matter is that in Western culture there are very few iconic black characters whose skin color is irrelevant to those characters. I would challenge anyone to come up with some, especially ones created before the nineties.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Its true. Hollywood is the white liberal guilt capital of the world. its usually a white director that will make a minor character that was white to black(i.e. Perry White in The Man of Steel). Its a way to make them feel better about themselves and also to say "hey see we believe in diversity". Unfortunately clueless directors who aren't fans of comics would already know there is a plethora of great black character waiting to be fleshed out on screen. Instead of changing anothers work why don't they use existing characters?


Its usually the white liberal guilt people that think there is nothing wrong with changing established white characters to black but everything wrong with changing established black characters to white. Double standard to be sure.

And what is the source of this "truth"? Have you done extensive studies? Been to a lot of casting meeting in Hollywood? Telepathically scanned the minds of everyone in Hollywood?

I don't know about you, but if I can get Edris Elba or Laurence Fishburne in my film, I'm jumping at the chance. Because they're Edris Elba and Laurence Fishburne! I'm not waiting for a "black role" to come along.

LOL! Studies? Why do I need studies? Its all out there to see for ourselves. I know who's directing these movies and who's changing them. A scientific study is not needed. You're a liberal so obviously you disagree with me on this point. I didn't need to telepathically scan your mind to figure that out.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Its true. Hollywood is the white liberal guilt capital of the world. its usually a white director that will make a minor character that was white to black(i.e. Perry White in The Man of Steel). Its a way to make them feel better about themselves and also to say "hey see we believe in diversity". Unfortunately clueless directors who aren't fans of comics would already know there is a plethora of great black character waiting to be fleshed out on screen. Instead of changing anothers work why don't they use existing characters?


Its usually the white liberal guilt people that think there is nothing wrong with changing established white characters to black but everything wrong with changing established black characters to white. Double standard to be sure.

And what is the source of this "truth"? Have you done extensive studies? Been to a lot of casting meeting in Hollywood? Telepathically scanned the minds of everyone in Hollywood?

I don't know about you, but if I can get Edris Elba or Laurence Fishburne in my film, I'm jumping at the chance. Because they're Edris Elba and Laurence Fishburne! I'm not waiting for a "black role" to come along.

LOL! Studies? Why do I need studies? Its all out there to see for ourselves. I know who's directing these movies and who's changing them. A scientific study is not needed. You're a liberal so obviously you disagree with me on this point. I didn't need to telepathically scan your mind to figure that out

So who's directing these movies? Do you actually know the reasoning behind their casting choices?

You're painting with a pretty broad brush here. Trying to pigeon hole hundreds, if not thousands of people based on your own misperception.

 

[TRON JA307020]

And what is the source of this "truth"? Have you done extensive studies? Been to a lot of casting meeting in Hollywood? Telepathically scanned the minds of everyone in Hollywood?

I don't know about you, but if I can get Edris Elba or Laurence Fishburne in my film, I'm jumping at the chance. Because they're Edris Elba and Laurence Fishburne! I'm not waiting for a "black role" to come along.

LOL! Studies? Why do I need studies? Its all out there to see for ourselves. I know who's directing these movies and who's changing them. A scientific study is not needed. You're a liberal so obviously you disagree with me on this point. I didn't need to telepathically scan your mind to figure that out

So who's directing these movies? Do you actually know the reasoning behind their casting choices?

You're painting with a pretty broad brush here. Trying to pigeon hole hundreds, if not thousands of people based on your own misperception.

Tokenism and appeasement tactics in Hollywood have been around for a while now. Instead of using great black superhero characters in their own movies Hollywood will take a minor character or major character in a group like the FF that were previously white and have a black character play him/her. Perry White is the most recent one to come to mind and now Johnny Storm. Tokenism is racist because it tries to appease a minority group by throwing them a small bone in hopes that the group will feel honored or at least buy more tickets. Having Johnny Storm become black and have Sue as a adopted sister is going against how the characters were originally created. The white guilt liberal wants to feel better about himself/herself and hope that black people will appreciate them for their insight. This is a veiled form of racism where in the white director or producer feels that only they can help black people in entertainment. I ask again why not use existing black superheroes and make major movies with them and even start to create new ones. We now know that generally unknown superhero characters that get their own movies became mainstream. Iron Man and now Ant Man are the best examples. Changing white characters to black is a poor way to show diversity and is actually insulting and obvious what the intent is.

 

[theenglish]

I've contributed my share to this discussion, as has everyone else. We all know where we all stand at this point. Can somebody just open a Neutral Zone thread on this topic so we can get back to discussing the movie?