Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

[RJDiogenes]

Then you should explain. Exactly what are you accusing me of and why?

There is a certain cohort that professes to believe in "color-blindness" just like good old Doctor King said it until they actually have to be confronted with the fact that real "color-blindness" involves black people getting jobs that used to automatically go to white people. Then, for reasons which I'm sure are completely mysterious, "color-blindness" goes out the window and suddenly the world is ending and civilization is crumbling and the members of this cohort are moaning about being victims of a "new racism." This behaviour is not, despite what those indulging in its seem to think, all that difficult to read.

That's what I'm accusing you of.

I'm not sure how old you guys are, but I'm from the "people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" generation. The current generation seems to have turned that upside down; it's like they're trying to create a positive kind of racism, and that ain't gonna work.

And that's why.

Okay. So. You take the fact that I still believe in the idealism of the Civil Rights Era and extrapolate from that that I secretly believe that civilization is crumbling because Black people are out to steal my job. You'll understand, I'm sure, why I am not able to make any sense out of that whatsoever.

Yeah, that can work sometimes with folk tales and stuff, but for contemporary works I'd rather see something new and creative.

These "contemporary works" are modern folk tales, myths legends and fairy tales. The characters are eternal can be infinitely updated.

That's one way to look at it, but, like I said, I prefer to see something new. Look at it this way: Would Star Wars have been improved by calling the main characters Flash Gordon and Dale Arden instead of Luke and Leia? Would Monk have been improved by calling the main characters Holmes and Watson? Would Lost have been improved by calling it Gilligan's Island? It's always better to be original than to be a shadow of something else.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ I've no difficulty with anyone believing that all people are created equally and with people treating someone of a different colour or race the same as they'd want to be treated and the same as they'd treat someone of their own colour or race.

However, I think what BigJake and others are getting at is that it's wrong to pretend that race doesn't exist - to pretend that a black person growing up in most parts of the world is going to get the same breaks, chances and opportunities as a white person and that the world will treat him or her the same. One only has to look at statistics from the criminal justice system or employment sphere to know that this isn't true.

Maybe that's not what you're suggesting at all, of course.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Nobody said racism doesn't exist. That's silly. If racism didn't exist, we wouldn't have been fighting it all these years. If racism didn't exist, we wouldn't have riots in Baltimore. If racism didn't exist, we wouldn't need places like the Southern Poverty Law Center and so on. The point is that racism is based on lies.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^Then hopefully we're all on the same hymn sheet. Unless, of course, I've misunderstood what the others are saying.

 

[theenglish]

^Then hopefully we're all on the same hymn sheet. Unless, of course, I've misunderstood what the others are saying.

I think you've got. I would add statistics for white vs. non-white roles in the entertainment industry as well. There is still a huge imbalance of white actors who get cast in roles. Also black actors seem to get critically recognized almost exclusively for roles that could only be played by black actors.

It has been fifteen years since Denzel Washington won an Oscar for Training Day--that is a long time.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Been longer since he was snubbed/robbed for Malcolm X

Or at least that was Gunn, Cordelia and Angel's opinion on Angel.

 

[theenglish]

Been longer since he was snubbed/robbed for Malcolm X

Or at least that was Gunn, Cordelia and Angel's opinion on Angel.

Yes, but Malcom X was a role specifically written to be played by a black man, whereas Training Day (as far as the story is concerned) could be played by any actor. It is the same difference between Morgan Freeman playing Mandela or the driver in Driving Miss Daisy and playing the U.S. President in that comet movie or the detective in Seven.

 

[Tosk]

It has been fifteen years since Denzel Washington won an Oscar for Training Day--that is a long time.

Thirteen. Still a long time, though.

 

[BigJake]

Okay. So. You take the fact that I still believe in the idealism of the Civil Rights Era and extrapolate from that that I secretly believe that civilization is crumbling because Black people are out to steal my job.

I extrapolate from your apparent belief that a Black actor getting a job is somehow a form of "positive racism" that your supposed "belief in the idealism of the Civil Rights Era" is likely hollow and that you probably don't really understand what racism is or what a society without it would look like. (It just so happens that people prone to misinterpreting and perverting "color blindness" to the point of completely inverting Dr. King's actual objective are also prone to hysterics about "positive racism" or "reverse racism." Civilization-is-crumbling rhetoric is of course at the further end of that spectrum, you presently are at its more mundane end, not that that's an excuse.)

 

[Captaindemotion]

Not a FF story but has some relevance to the discussion of the last few days: http://i100.independent.co.uk/artic...-her-comment-to-fairskinned-twin--g1ZfpxsTmgb

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, that can work sometimes with folk tales and stuff, but for contemporary works I'd rather see something new and creative.

These "contemporary works" are modern folk tales, myths legends and fairy tales. The characters are eternal can be infinitely updated.

That's one way to look at it, but, like I said, I prefer to see something new. Look at it this way: Would Star Wars have been improved by calling the main characters Flash Gordon and Dale Arden instead of Luke and Leia? Would Monk have been improved by calling the main characters Holmes and Watson? Would Lost have been improved by calling it Gilligan's Island? It's always better to be original than to be a shadow of something else.

Then don't watch adaptations. Folks have been adapting previous works for Centuries. Shakespeare did it. Homer did it. The Grimms and Aesop did it. Why should the rules be different for "contemporary" works?

No idea if those works would be improved by being adaptations of their inspirations. In the end its the final product that determine how successful it is, not it's origins.

 

[theenglish]

How many versions of Sherlock Holmes have we had in the past ten years let alone the last hundred?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sherlock has been quite popular recently. I think it because he's in the public domain now.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Indeed. The poor guy.

^Then hopefully we're all on the same hymn sheet. Unless, of course, I've misunderstood what the others are saying.

Well, some of those "others" have a history of manufacturing controversy.

Okay. So. You take the fact that I still believe in the idealism of the Civil Rights Era and extrapolate from that that I secretly believe that civilization is crumbling because Black people are out to steal my job.

I extrapolate from your apparent belief that a Black actor getting a job is somehow a form of "positive racism" that your supposed "belief in the idealism of the Civil Rights Era" is likely hollow and that you probably don't really understand what racism is or what a society without it would look like. (It just so happens that people prone to misinterpreting and perverting "color blindness" to the point of completely inverting Dr. King's actual objective are also prone to hysterics about "positive racism" or "reverse racism." Civilization-is-crumbling rhetoric is of course at the further end of that spectrum, you presently are at its more mundane end, not that that's an excuse.)

That's not "extrapolating," that's "making stuff up." If I was going to complain about Black actors getting jobs, then I probably wouldn't have been doing just the opposite all these years. The rest of your post is too incoherent to parse, but the fact is that race does not exist. Notions of race as they affect our society were created by 19th-century religious fanatics. It has long been the habit of liberals (and Left Wingers, back in the day) to point out that there is one human race. This new fashion of promoting race as a positive thing and referring to the scientific fact that there is no such thing as race as "White privilege" is repulsive and counterproductive. There is no such thing as good racism. You can't solve a problem by perpetuating it.

 

[Mudd]

he rest of your post is too incoherent to parse...

I guess it would be different if, you know, most other people had any difficulty understanding what BigJake posts.

Of course, that was the second time in a single post where you just sidestepped addressing what others are saying.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's always funny to watch the open minded, enlightened and intellectual switch gears when something they're attached to does something liklike cast a Black man in role previously played by a white man.

 

[TRON JA307020]

It's always funny to watch the open minded, enlightened and intellectual switch gears when something they're attached to does something liklike cast a Black man in role previously played by a white man.

You'll never see a white man play a role that was always previously played by a black man. Shouldn't enlightenment go both ways?

 

[Photoman15]

It's always funny to watch the open minded, enlightened and intellectual switch gears when something they're attached to does something liklike cast a Black man in role previously played by a white man.

I can't speak for everyone complaining, BUT I'm not complaint about a "black man in a role ....". My problem is that Sue and Johnny have ALWAYS been BIOLOGICAL brother and sister. A lot of dialog was written between them over decades that used that.

 

[Captaindemotion]

It's always funny to watch the open minded, enlightened and intellectual switch gears when something they're attached to does something liklike cast a Black man in role previously played by a white man.

You'll never see a white man play a role that was always previously played by a black man. Shouldn't enlightenment go both ways?

I'm trying to think of a role 'that was always previously played by a black man' - assuming that you mean roles played by numerous black actors over the years - and failing. Can you give examples?

Certainly there have been 'negative' productions of Othello, in particular one with Patrick Stewart in the title role and an all-black cast playing the usually-white roles.

 

[AvBaur]

You'll never see a white man play a role that was always previously played by a black man. Shouldn't enlightenment go both ways?

The obvious reasons for why this is not the same have been stated and restated here and elsewhere a 1000 times, but I wonder: When would that even be an issue? There just aren't that many iconic black characters whose skin color isn't an integral part of their character.