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Fans, why do you like DS9?

I grew up on TOS - came home from school every afternoon in the 70's and watched it on TV with my friends, etc. Saw all the movies in the theatre and watched TWOK about 70,000 times on HBO back in the day when HBO was the only cable game in town.

I was happy to see TNG come to the screen, although like others of my generation I was fearful that no one could ever replace the TOS crew. TNG was okay and I was happy to have it, especially at the time. I think we all felt that way - just grateful to have new Trek. But I don't think it has aged well at all, and the 1980's PC bull-ony really gets on my nerves now. So while I recognize TNG's place, I still much prefer TOS.

There are a number of reasons why I like DS9, however.

First, because I felt like it was a bold new step. After the first couple of seasons, DS9 is very much it's own show. No one can say Ira Behr & Co didn't take risks. No one can say they took the easy way out by making another 'do over' show. They did their own thing, and greatly expanded the Trek universe - arguably like no other show save the original. DS9 gave us several new races, it greately expanded our knowledge of several others, it gave us a new quadrant of space, and an intergalactic war, and for the first time in Trek, a continuing arc storyline. And finally, DS9 was the first show to really put it's money where it's mouth was with regard to women and minorities in command positions as part of the main cast.

Secondly, I love DS9 because I love the characters and the depth of the character development on this show. I love the main characters, for sure...but many of the recurring characters are so fully developed and interesting that they put many of the main characters in the other Trek shows to shame. Garak, Dukat, Damar, Rom, Nog, Winn, Weyoun, Martok - ALL of them where more fully developed than some of the central characters of VOY and ENT. And the central characters - WOW! You really can't beat the personal and quite detailed backstories given to Ben & Jake Sisko, Kira, Bashir, Dax (both) and Odo. And you also can't beat how they use those backstories to create interesting stories in the present, that fit quite well into the overall picture - like Sisko with the Emissary storyline, or Bashir with the Section 31 storyline.

You have charcters changing...growing....learning from their mistakes. And so in the end, you could DO stories like Kira teaching Damar how to be a freedom fighter.

You just don't get to see that sort of development anywhere else in Trek.

Thirdly, I love DS9 because it has grit. Some say it is the darkest and grittiest of the Trek shows, and I agree - and make NO apologies for that whatsoever. True, it is no BSG. But you can certainly see Ron Moore's progression toward the dark and gritty world of BSG during his work on DS9. TNG is for the most part a 'happy-shiny' Trek. But DS9 is NOT. And it's interesting that Ron Moore, after acquiring a taste for grit on DS9, just couldn't go back to 'happy-shiny' on VOY...and left that team after only a few episodes....only to end up running BSG....perhaps one of the darkest scifi shows ever made to-date.

Fourth, I love DS9 because of the writing in general. For the most part, the writing on this show was excellent. Sure, there were a few dud episodes...but even in most of those, the B-story was strong. And the thing was that this show took us new places with it's writing. I mean, where else do you get all the surprise plot twists of...say...Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast or In the Pale Moonlight????

Finally, I love DS9 because it brought back the non-utopian feel of TOS. Like TOS, it's central characters were not perfect. Evolved, perhaps. But not perfect like the TNG crew was portrayed. The heroes of both TOS and DS9 where flawed heroes...but heroes nonetheless. I liked that about them. It made them more accessable - more 'real'. It made them part of US. Part of ME. Because of this, I see the TOS crew as the Star Trek crew of my childhood...and the DS9 crew as the Star Trek crew of my adulthood. They are the ones I relate to most. The ones I care about most.
 
In my answer to this question in the TNG forum I stated that now that I'm an adult (having fallen in love with TNG as a child) I prefer 'grittier' drama, DS9 is an example of this.

I like the fact that there is an ongoing story arc that develops over several seasons, and as a result has a much better pay-off than stand alone episodes can have. With DS9 I very much like the richness of the characters and their relationships with each other: Odo-Quark, Bashir-Garak, Bashir-O'Brian, Dukat-Sisko, Dukat-Weyoun-Damar.
 
Warped9, as a TOS fan, one thing you should appreciate about DS9 is the fact that the people running the show were TRUE TOS fans. At every opportunity they dipped back into the TOS well and made it relevant to a new audience. From Sisko's reverence of Kirk to Jadzia's respect for Kang and Kor....this was a show that was not ashamed of its TOS roots. Nor did it paint that era in a derogatory light (Janeway's attitude toward TOS starfleet continues to bug me).

DS9 in many ways was a tribute to TOS.
 
In addition to what others have said, I'll add this key ingredient to DS9's success:

Lots of stuff blowed up real good.

Like the Odyssey. Too bad it wasn't the Enterprise, it would've saved us from the TNG films. :)
 
Warped9, as a TOS fan, one thing you should appreciate about DS9 is the fact that the people running the show were TRUE TOS fans. At every opportunity they dipped back into the TOS well and made it relevant to a new audience. From Sisko's reverence of Kirk to Jadzia's respect for Kang and Kor....this was a show that was not ashamed of its TOS roots. Nor did it paint that era in a derogatory light (Janeway's attitude toward TOS starfleet continues to bug me).

DS9 in many ways was a tribute to TOS.
I've been watching reruns of early DS9 on SPACE recently and I do see some of what you're saying similar to what I thought when the show first debuted. I'll see what happens when they get into the third season, though, because it's there not long after "Second Skin" that I grew disinterested with the series and left it for Babylon 5. I'd pop back in once in awhile, but I just couldn't get interested again.
 
Warped9, as a TOS fan, one thing you should appreciate about DS9 is the fact that the people running the show were TRUE TOS fans. At every opportunity they dipped back into the TOS well and made it relevant to a new audience. From Sisko's reverence of Kirk to Jadzia's respect for Kang and Kor....this was a show that was not ashamed of its TOS roots. Nor did it paint that era in a derogatory light (Janeway's attitude toward TOS starfleet continues to bug me).

DS9 in many ways was a tribute to TOS.

This was something I noticed, myself. It's particularly obvious when you compare the excellent "Trials and Tribble-ations" to the execrable "Flasback." Add to that the strong dose of what passes for realpolitik ("In the Pale Moonlight") and you have the only worthy successor to TOS, imao. I'm not a Niner per se but I'm one hell of a fellow traveller.
 
I'm not really sure I can add anything to prevailing opion of character development and over arching plot lines but I pretty much love DS9 for the same reasons. I always thought it was amazing to begin with that they had such a strong main cast but an equally capable and strong supporting cast that felt more than just simple guest stars.

I suppose the other thing I loved about DS9 was that it was set in one place and time. I kind of felt the way the characters did as they got used to their new home. The station was an uncomfortable forboding place in the beginning but it slowly became home, a place where your friends and family lived.

Lastly I loved the politics of dealing with other races on the edge of The Federation. Basically how DS9 got along with everyone around of them from week to week was fantastic.
 
Warped9, as a TOS fan, one thing you should appreciate about DS9 is the fact that the people running the show were TRUE TOS fans. At every opportunity they dipped back into the TOS well and made it relevant to a new audience. From Sisko's reverence of Kirk to Jadzia's respect for Kang and Kor....this was a show that was not ashamed of its TOS roots. Nor did it paint that era in a derogatory light (Janeway's attitude toward TOS starfleet continues to bug me).

DS9 in many ways was a tribute to TOS.

This was something I noticed, myself. It's particularly obvious when you compare the excellent "Trials and Tribble-ations" to the execrable "Flasback." Add to that the strong dose of what passes for realpolitik ("In the Pale Moonlight") and you have the only worthy successor to TOS, imao. I'm not a Niner per se but I'm one hell of a fellow traveller.

While T&T was essentially the peak of their TOS love, they had always shown an affinity for TOS references. For instance, Kassidy Yeats' brother loved on Cestus III (the world from Arena) and enjoyed watching the Pike City Pioneers (a reference to Chris Pike). DS9 actually acknowledged the Eugenic Wars, where as TNG simply ignored the whole thing. Let us never forget that they ressurected the Mirror Universe and made frequent reference to the Tholians.

These people knew their Trek. Hell they even mentioned Berengaria...and I actually had to look that one up.
 
Much has been said that i agree with but here's an addition:

DS9 felt more real than TNG, VOY or any others (save maybe for TOS but that had a whole different style).

In DS9 people made mistakes that had lasting implications, they did everyday things which were not that highbrow (it seems every TNG character was a disguised artist), i.e. gambling, just hanging out at the bar shooting some darts etc.

I liked especially the scene in ST: First Contact where Lilly calls out Picard on the "emotionally evolved" humanity Picard went about.. it was the epitome of TNG and it got boring.. fast. DS9 presented us with characters we could relate better to.. Sisko betrayed his principles for the greater good (In the Pale Moonlight) and who can say he wouln't too given the stakes, Garak was a cruel Obsidian Order Operative but you couldn't help but like him because he had such a varied personality, the relationship between Sisko and Jake that culminated into one of the best episodes ever about father/son relationships (The Visitor) and which made me think about my relationship with my dad etc.. i could go on for quite a while.

It just had the perfect mix.. Star Trek style moral questions, humor, action, heartbreak in a perfect mix and it just had his own style which set it apart from all the other series.

A good friend of mine who was into music as a hobby even started a 60s style band with him as the singer modeled after Vic Fontaine/Frank Sinatra because we just liked the character and the style of Vic Fontaine so much. :techman:
 
WTF, contemporary Trek has not failed! Stop livin' in the past!
*Sigh* This is a whole other argument. And I'm entitled to an opinion.

You are exactly right, Warped9. On both counts. It IS an entirely different discussion (and one, not at all incidentally, we are not having here! :cool: ) and you ARE entitled to an opinion.

I do hope that you give the later seasons of DS9 a chance though. The DS9/B5 'war' is over on this board, and your comment that you 'left' DS9 for B5....well, I'll just say that there is no need to 'leave' one for the other, and personally, I don't think there was ever any such need.

In fact, B5 is my second favorite show, next to DS9...and that by only a VERY small margin.

It never was an 'either/or', even though some fans (including, apparently, you) felt that it was back then.

But now?

I'd give DS9 a real chance. :)
 
DS9 seemed to have much more depth than the other series. It was almost more believable than the others. The stories had so much more attention to detail, especially when it comes to continuity.

The characters were overall have more depth and substance than those in the other Star Treks and there weren't many chracters who you could dislike just because they didn't seem to do anything and just seemed "annoying" - they seemed like "real" people, they all had a personality which you could either like or dislike.

I guess as a viewer, I feel far more attached to the characters than I ever did with anyone on TNG and Voyager.
 
WTF, contemporary Trek has not failed! Stop livin' in the past!
*Sigh* This is a whole other argument. And I'm entitled to an opinion.

You are exactly right, Warped9. On both counts. It IS an entirely different discussion (and one, not at all incidentally, we are not having here! :cool: ) and you ARE entitled to an opinion.

I do hope that you give the later seasons of DS9 a chance though. The DS9/B5 'war' is over on this board, and your comment that you 'left' DS9 for B5....well, I'll just say that there is no need to 'leave' one for the other, and personally, I don't think there was ever any such need.

In fact, B5 is my second favorite show, next to DS9...and that by only a VERY small margin.

It never was an 'either/or', even though some fans (including, apparently, you) felt that it was back then.

But now?

I'd give DS9 a real chance. :)
Over the years I've seen perhaps 90% of the later seasons of DS9 in reruns although not always in sequence. Right now on SPACE I'm catching reruns of DS9 and Stargate: Atlantis after work. We'll see.
 
Warped9, something that occurred to me when reading your PDF moments ago that I'm not sure if you're aware of, and not really sure if it will be beneficial to you.

DS9 is said to have been conceived as a "new sheriff arriving in a sleepy frontier town" format, which I think compares nicely to GR's "Wagon Train to the Stars" approach to TOS. I guess that makes DS9 "Gunsmoke to the Stars"? :)
 
^^ Interesting thought and I'll give it some consideration. My retrospective is by no means complete and I will be revising it. I'm trying to cover a lot of ground and it's a challenge to offer an encompasing overview while trying to be succinct.
 
Everyone has pretty much listed all my reasons here, but on top of the characters I loved, I'd like to add that DS9 added to the mix of Trekverse characters I really hated. I don't mean "hated" like, "Oh, crap, there's Polaski. Let's put her in a transporter accident with Neelix to see how irritating we can get." I truly understand how difficult of a job the loathsome characters had. Kai Wynn and the female Changeling! They were supposed to be despised, and boy did they do a good job at it! In all the other series, the bad guys (the ones who actually recurred) were just either a little scary or just background to add some flavour to the plot. The villans on DS9, however, those really stuck with me. They weren't just there for simple plot development -- I continued to think about how horrible they were as people after the show was over and wondered what they'd think of next. For the borg and for characters like Q, it was, "What prank will they come up with next?" Yes, I thought the borg were pranksters, but that may have been because I never took Voyager very seriously.

[babble babble] Yes, the characters!
 
Great Character development.... good intro of guest characters... Dominion war... Bajoran Prophecy. it's like a really really good book!
 
Kai Wyn truly was a genius villain, one of the best in all of Trek. She was just acted so perfectly.
 
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