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Fans, what don't you like about TNG?

Oh, where do I begin?

The whole Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher thing was just plain silly. No kids on the bridge, please. It looked like a farce. I have absolutely nothing against Wil Weaton, but is this the best TNG could do with having civvies live aboard starships???

TNG overused the Klingons and the Borg. The inclusion of Worf on the show was originally heralded as the realization of the Organian prophecy that the Federation and the Klingons would become friends and work together. By the third and fourth years of TNG, we were back to confrontation again. And the Borg were worn out before the show was over. They no longer had any mystery or interest to them; the Borg were just bullet-proof super-thugs.

The "TNG Mouseketeer Effect" was extremely annoying and unnecessary. Roddeberry, Berman and crew wanted to avoid the kind of sarcastic banter that TOS had between Kirk, Spock and McCoy by making everyone so ultra-cozy. Boy did TNG go off the deep end. By deliberately avoiding sarcasm in all but the most obvious of situations, TNG's writing became stilted and awkward. In essence, TNG threw the baby out with the bath water. Bringing Pulaski onto the show was too little too late, but Muldaur was still great. What a shame she was shown the door. TNG again had a golden opportunity handed to them with Shelby, and they let it slip away. She should've been kept on board as an XO-in-training. Maybe I'm alone here, but even though Patrick Stewart was a great actor, I think it would've been refreshing to see Riker become captain and Shelby become XO.

The "Cosmic Clique Effect" was related to the "TNG Mouseketeer Effect", only more insidious. TNG's stories took on an uninspired formula approach, wherein the regular cast members acted like some cosmic clique, floating along on some moral island above the rest of the STAR TREK Universe, judging everything and everyone else and solving the problem of the week as only they could do. I was especially offended by the whole Barclay thing. "Hollow Pursuits" was stupid beyond belief and its premise that officers would just break in on someone's goofy holodeck fantasies without cause made the cast look arrogant. I also saw it as a slap in the face to fans of the show.

Worst of all, TNG did not do enough exploring. We went the entire series and, unless I missed something, none of the main cast ever donned a spacesuit until the FIRST CONTACT feature film. Even TOS did better than that.

TNG desperately needed a couple of Runabouts or Delta Flyer-like ships, to break up the monotony and give individual cast members a chance to get away from the mothership and go on some interesting missions on their own. And I would've loved to see Capt. Jellico assume permanent command of the Enterprise-D. Ronny Cox would've made a reasonable successor to Patrick Stewart, and Jellico definitely shook things up with the crew. There's missed opportunity number 3.

And the way TNG's makers neglected and then killed off Yar was a disgrace. Cast turnover and showing the mortality of characters exposed to danger is one thing, but to neglect a character and then toss her so casually was disappointing.

One other thing: TNG never got the uniforms right. The early DS9/VOY uniforms were a huge improvement. And the ENT ones were the most practical looking. The whole spandex tights thing was embarrassing. It looked like another Hollyweird-lame attempt to sex things up because they didn't know what else to do.
 
First off, TNG is my favorite show, love it love it love it. Still, some things I didn't like:

- They could have done a bit more exploring. Seeking out new worlds I guess in TNG fame only means when being asked to do a mission there or something. I think the closest the series got to really being awed was Where No One Has Gone Before.

-Some characters, like Troi, could have gotten more personality. Troi was the show's weakest link, even though when she got the uniform she got better and was awesome in First Contact (The movie) and Voyager.

-The show these days can get a bit boring. Probably because I've watched it so many times, but some times there are episodes where it's so quiet and there's no music at all that it can be hard to sit through all the way. One episode example is New Ground.

-Speaking of New Ground, Season 5 was the year of the Kids. Disaster, Hero Worship, New Ground, Imaginary Friend. There were great episodes in this season, but it's downgraded a bit because of all the annoying children.
 
The "Law of the Jungle"/Social Darwinist form of the Prime Directive used over and over in Seasons 1 and 2 and occasionally afterwards (like that horrible Season 7 episode with Worf's brother)—let other people die/be oppressed/stay ignorant forever and justify it by some bastardized form of white man's guilt over colonialism writ large. Absolutely horrible, a moral obscenity, and diametrically opposed to liberal humanism at that.

Fortunately, the DS9 and VOY writers were mostly smart enough to lay off this crap.
 
Deanna's early costumes and hair.

Wesley saving the day.

Holodeck malfunctions.

Tasha. Just didn't like her.

Worf having three jobs (security chief, tac officer, and fricking receptionist) while having to stand at that rail for his entire shift.

The eclectic diversity of the bridge staff - does every starship have this variety of halfbreeds, handicapped, underage and artificial crew in one room?

Technobabble: Stop the Madness!

2,000 people on board and every adventure involved only the bridge crew.

More as I think of them...

Yes of course, eclectic diversity is a really bad thing....

Yeah, TOS showed all 430 crewmen every episode....

RAMA:rolleyes:
 
1. Had really poor second parters for most of the two part episodes.

2. Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher. I liked Wesley, but I think he should've started out as a cadet or an ensign that had already gone through the Academy.

3. Romulans with forehead ridges.

4. Lack of development for Geordi and Doctor Crusher.

5. Sela. I always thought her creation was too convoluted.

6. Lack of internal conflict among the crew. That's what helped make Jellico, Shelby, Barclay, Nechayev, etc. so memorable because they brought in that tension that was largely absent from the crew.

7. Never following up on "Conspiracy" or "Schisms." The alien species in both could've been pretty interesting adversaries.
 
1. Too much Wesley
2. Troi should have always been in normal uniform. I cringe at some of the thing she wears on the bridge.
3. Not enough Ro in seasons 5-7.
 
Oh, where do I begin?

The whole Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher thing was just plain silly. No kids on the bridge, please. It looked like a farce. I have absolutely nothing against Wil Weaton, but is this the best TNG could do with having civvies live aboard starships???
There was nothing wrong making him acting ensign, but I have to agree, he shouldn't have been on active bridge duty! Maybe we see him pilot the ship into spacedock, once, or take her out of the Sol System. (Then maybe Riker leans over to ask him if he would like a tranquilizer.. ) But not as a regular helmsman when the ship probably has a dozen graduated officers for that duty!

TNG overused the Klingons and the Borg. The inclusion of Worf on the show was originally heralded as the realization of the Organian prophecy that the Federation and the Klingons would become friends and work together. By the third and fourth years of TNG, we were back to confrontation again. And the Borg were worn out before the show was over. They no longer had any mystery or interest to them; the Borg were just bullet-proof super-thugs.
Have to disagree. The explorations of the Klingons, through Worf's story arcs, are good, rich stories, as well as the first hint of serialism. As to the Borg, we're only talking a handful of episodes. The Borg might have been "worn out" after FC, but that would be in VOY, which I haven't watched yet.

The "TNG Mouseketeer Effect" was extremely annoying and unnecessary. Roddeberry, Berman and crew wanted to avoid the kind of sarcastic banter that TOS had between Kirk, Spock and McCoy by making everyone so ultra-cozy. Boy did TNG go off the deep end. By deliberately avoiding sarcasm in all but the most obvious of situations, TNG's writing became stilted and awkward. In essence, TNG threw the baby out with the bath water.
The vibe of Kirk's ship and Picard's aren't that different. They're both Utopist visions of a crew on a mission of peaceful exploration. Yes, there's no McCoy. We get it. That doesn't mean the characters suck, or the writing suffers from suckage any more than TOS. McCoy was not the baby.
The "Cosmic Clique Effect" was related to the "TNG Mouseketeer Effect", only more insidious. TNG's stories took on an uninspired formula approach, wherein the regular cast members acted like some cosmic clique, floating along on some moral island above the rest of the STAR TREK Universe, judging everything and everyone else and solving the problem of the week as only they could do. I was especially offended by the whole Barclay thing. "Hollow Pursuits" was stupid beyond belief and its premise that officers would just break in on someone's goofy holodeck fantasies without cause made the cast look arrogant. I also saw it as a slap in the face to fans of the show.
I don't know what "moral island" you're referring to that isn't also present in TOS. Wasn't Barclay supposed to be somewhere else in both instances? He is serving as an officer on a starship. No one would have known what he was running if he hadn't blown off engineering, and then ended up pissing off his XO.

Worst of all, TNG did not do enough exploring. We went the entire series and, unless I missed something, none of the main cast ever donned a spacesuit until the FIRST CONTACT feature film. Even TOS did better than that.
Because without space suits, its just not Exploring(tm).

TNG desperately needed a couple of Runabouts or Delta Flyer-like ships, to break up the monotony and give individual cast members a chance to get away from the mothership and go on some interesting missions on their own.
They did. Also any Holodeck ep.
And I would've loved to see Capt. Jellico assume permanent command of the Enterprise-D. Ronny Cox would've made a reasonable successor to Patrick Stewart, and Jellico definitely shook things up with the crew. There's missed opportunity number 3.
No, Picard was essential to TNG. And I don't think Ronny Cox had anywhere near the range of Patrick Stewart.
And the way TNG's makers neglected and then killed off Yar was a disgrace. Cast turnover and showing the mortality of characters exposed to danger is one thing, but to neglect a character and then toss her so casually was disappointing.
She wasn't that neglected. It was a big cast. And it was her decision to jump, not even through the first damn season! "Skin of Evil" isn't on my A-list, though.
One other thing: TNG never got the uniforms right. The early DS9/VOY uniforms were a huge improvement. And the ENT ones were the most practical looking. The whole spandex tights thing was embarrassing. It looked like another Hollyweird-lame attempt to sex things up because they didn't know what else to do.
The uniforms were fine from S3+
 
Deanna's early costumes and hair.

Wesley saving the day.

Holodeck malfunctions.

Tasha. Just didn't like her.

Worf having three jobs (security chief, tac officer, and fricking receptionist) while having to stand at that rail for his entire shift.

The eclectic diversity of the bridge staff - does every starship have this variety of halfbreeds, handicapped, underage and artificial crew in one room?

Technobabble: Stop the Madness!

2,000 people on board and every adventure involved only the bridge crew.

More as I think of them...

Yes of course, eclectic diversity is a really bad thing....

Yeah, TOS showed all 430 crewmen every episode....

RAMA:rolleyes:

:wtf: How did that manage to personally offend you so much you had single out my post as the only one in the whole thread that needed a rolleyes??
 
I never cared for the civilian clothes that people wore, they were just awful. Except for uniforms, the Star Trek franchise has never done costumes very well.

I would have liked them to include a little more action/adventure as well. Talking and diplomacy is great, but sometimes you just need to punch an alien in the face and TNG could have used a little more of that.

Also, as has been mentioned before, everyone was just so damn perfect it would have been nice to have some tension between the characters.
 
I never cared for the civilian clothes that people wore, they were just awful. Except for uniforms, the Star Trek franchise has never done costumes very well.

I would have liked them to include a little more action/adventure as well. Talking and diplomacy is great, but sometimes you just need to punch an alien in the face and TNG could have used a little more of that.

Also, as has been mentioned before, everyone was just so damn perfect it would have been nice to have some tension between the characters.
While I don't agree, or even understand, the "everyone was perfect" argument, I totally agree on the statement about action.
I remember being in 7th grade in S1 of TNG and thinking, "if Worf gets easily whooped one more time I'm going to throw something at the TV"!
It also would have been nice to see the Ent-D kick some serious ass a few times. Though I wouldn't call it a "battleship" as many do, it's really an exploration vessel.
 
Another companion thread. I'm compartmentalizing in an effort to avoid derailing the main subject matter of the threads. :lol:

Seriously, though, as much as we love our favourite shows there are always things we're not content with, wholly or in part. There are always things we feel could have been better.

So what didn't you like about TNG?

For myself I'd have liked a little more edge to the characters and the storytelling, something like what we got in some of the early Pocket Book novels. Picard had some attitude there and could come off as a bit of a hardnose even when he was usually right.

I never cared for the uniforms from the third season onward. They looked so stiff and silly with the zipper seam up the back. The initial uniform design needed to be revised and it only looked good on those with the right physique. Note how much better Picard looked in second season as opposed to first after he'd filled out some. But I like the initial design because it harkened back conceptually to what we saw in TMP. Maybe if TNG had opted for something more like the initial DS9 uniforms.

You know, I was thinking about that this afternoon. I like the early TNG uniforms better than the 3rd season onward uniforms. They just look better to me. I also like the solid strip going across the shoulders, it just felt right. Anyhoo, one thing I don't like about TNG was in the early seasons, where you could tell Gene was pushing that whole "we as humans have reached the highest stage in our evolution and our sense of evolved morality". Taking the humanity out of humans isn't a good decision, and I was glad to see that take a bit of a dive later on after Gene's unfortunate passing.

J.
 
^ Yes, I also thought it was strange and ironic, if not flat-out annoying, when the characters would say off-the-wall things like "They actually feared dying" (Dr. Crusher in "The Neutral Zone") which served to distract from the story instead of feeding into the whole "Utopia" phenomenon. I always saw TREK as an adventure, not some kind of perfect world.
 
^ Yes, I also thought it was strange and ironic, if not flat-out annoying, when the characters would say off-the-wall things like "They actually feared dying" (Dr. Crusher in "The Neutral Zone") which served to distract from the story instead of feeding into the whole "Utopia" phenomenon. I always saw TREK as an adventure, not some kind of perfect world.

What gets me is a handful of episodes before that, in the same season ("Hide & Q"), Tasha talks about not wanting to die and Picard comforting her. So I guess they fear dying in the 24th century too, don't they Gene!? *exasperated sigh*


J.
 
I really don't like:

The uniforms from the first two seasons.
Wesley Crusher and the freak Traveler
Geordi LaForge and that stupid banana clip over his eyes. What a frikking whiner! And a creep! What the hell was he expecting when he met Leah Brahms for the first time? Did he think it would help to come off as someone who sifts her garbage in hopes of finding a soiled pair of her undies? Terrible character through and through.
The fact that phaser beams are actually dodged by people... GAG!
A little less Shakespeare would have been nice.
Inconsistancies regarding the ship's weapons' capabilities.
Pulaski. What a space-hag! Nagilum should have turned her inside out for fun.
Alexander Roshenko.
Denise Crosby thinking she was all that and asking to be written out. How'd that work out for you, you hosebag? Right back there playing Yar's bastard Romulan spawn...
Exploding work consoles??!! Really? In what stupid reality do engineers run their most powerful conduits to the panels where work is performed? Simple low-voltage electricity would have more than sufficed! Leave the EPS taps behind bulkheads where they belong.

Jeez, I gotta stop. I could go on and on. Seriously, though. I loved TNG. Mostly... :)
 
Hm, well, how towards the end and continuing into the movies, it became the Picard/Data show. I thought it started off well showing all the other main cast members but sorta fell off towards the end.

My memory's probably a bit hazy and biased, though.
 
What don't I like in TNG... well, that is a toughy one. But I guess I'll have to go the Klingon stuff too. Sometimes too much.

Oh, and I absolutely HATE Lore. The entire idea of "evil brother" is too soap opera for me. And what he did with the Borg... geez... Not to mention the crystal entity... oh no...
 
It featured the most BORING cast of characters in the history of the TREK franchise, in my opinion. Both this series and DS9 had some pretty awful two-part episodes. Even its best two-parter, "The Best of Both Worlds" is pretty overrated, as far as I'm concerned. The first season was dull as hell. The last two seasons - aside from Ro Lauren's last episode - were dull as hell. Worf and Troi as a couple - were they kidding? The excuses they made to keep Riker as First Officer were increasingly ridiculous. That's all I can come up with, right now. And like the rest of the TREK franchise, the time continuity was pretty shaky.
 
You know thinking about these threads, I have to wonder if some of the posts here are from actual "fans." I mean talking about the main cast, or Geordi's Visor, or just stuff like that I have to wonder if this thread has turned into a stomping ground to bash TNG. This was supposed to be one of those fun type things for fans to talk about stuff they didn't like, but some of the posts in here just seem mean spirited and I already think this whole "experiment" is a failure. The same goes for the other series too.
 
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