"Fan Service" label is over used

[trekfan_1]

OK I admit that this post may come off as a bit of a rant or pet peeve. But then again this is a message forum so I don't think I'll feel too guilty about it.

I think that the term ”Fan Service” is a little bit overblown these days. I want to start off by saying that I do believe unnecessary fanservice does happen in different franchises including Star Trek. But it seems every time there is a previous character that comes back to the franchise so many people are very very quick to jump to “fan service!”. Obviously if said character coming back serves the story it's not really fanservice. But honestly even if it doesn't serve the story 100% I still don't think it's worthy of a major complaint most of the time.

The latest example of this is...

Spoiler: ST Picard spoilers

The latest example of this is in Star trek Picard with Ro Laren. Many people are labeling this as an example of unnecessary fanservice. I strongly disagree. The fact that Ro and Picard knew each other from the past and are testing each other’s trust works really well for the changeling story. It would not work as well if it was a new character that knew Picard “offscreen”. As a matter of fact, my partner who's never seen much of Star Trek didn't think the interaction between Ro and Picard came off as fanboyy fanservice. In fact she thought it worked really well considering these are two characters they knew each other from the past. And when I told her they didn't just create this character out of nowhere, it made the story even more rich in verisimilitude in her eyes.

I am convinced that if it was 1981 and social media and the Internet existed back then people would be screaming fan service! about the upcoming movie Star Trek 2 the Wrath of Khan. “ Why bring back a character from the original series especially after doing a more unique science fiction heavy story for the first movie?. This is going to be obvious fanservice!”

I'm pretty sure most people don't consider Star Trek 2 (edit - (as a whole) unnecessary fan service. As a matter of fact it adds to the believability of the revenge plot. We don't yet know whether

Spoiler: character from ST Picard

Vadic

is a character that is based on a previous storyline or even another version of a previous character. But honestly that's what makes Wrath of Khan revenge story better than Star Trek 2009 for example - IS because the character of Khan is someone we've seen in the past. Adds more weight to the narrative.

Many will disagree with me but I do think the whole fanservice angle is really overdone. it's especially overblown with lazy online reviewers who are not familiar of that particular franchise. They simply look at it and say to themselves “Oh yeah this guy is from this 'other' show so it must be fanservice: Gotta point that out in my review!”

 

[Qonundrum]

OK I admit that this post may come off as a bit of a rant or pet peeve. But then again this is a message forum so I don't think I'll feel too guilty about it.

I think that the term ”Fan Service” is a little bit overblown these days. I want to start off by saying that I do believe unnecessary fanservice does happen in different franchises including Star Trek. But it seems every time there is a previous character that comes back to the franchise so many people are very very quick to jump to “fan service!”. Obviously if said character coming back serves the story it's not really fanservice. But honestly even if it doesn't serve the story 100% I still don't think it's worthy of a major complaint most of the time.

Agreed.

The return of a character does not mean it's fanservice, just because they're back.

But sometimes a character is returned to boost ratings, especially if said character's arc as done combined with the new extension lacking in anything worthwhile.

Spoiler

The latest example of this is in Star trek Picard with Ro Laren. Many people are labeling this as an example of unnecessary fanservice. I strongly disagree. The fact that Ro and Picard knew each other from the past and are testing each other’s trust works really well for the changeling story. It would not work as well if it was a new character that knew Picard “offscreen”. As a matter of fact, my partner who's never seen much of Star Trek didn't think the interaction between Ro and Picard came up as fanboyy fanservice. In fact she thought it worked really well considering these are two characters they knew each other from the past and when I told her they didnt just create this character out of nowhere, it made the story more rich in verisimilitude in her eyes.

She returns in season 3, yep, but after how she departed in season 7 - which was a bit wishy washy, and open-ended, there was a good opportunity to revisit. What they did do shocked me, but I felt saddened at the time. Plus, what had happened to her didn't feel cheesy or aiming at cheap tears. I've seen too many shows in the last 18 years and it's easy to spot what's a pile of cow cack and what's good. Ro's felt genuine. Rose's was not, but that's another story. Oh, and series.

I am convinced that if it was 1981 and social media and the Internet existed back then people would be screaming fan service! about the upcoming movie Star Trek 2 the Wrath of Khan. “ Why bring back a character from the original series especially after doing a totally unique science fiction heavy story for the first movie?. This is going to be obvious fanservice!”

In TWOK, the biggest fanservice bar none was the Genesis Cave where one corner had three cylinders - each in the bright TOS TV show uniform colors. That's fanservice, albeit subtle. It may not have been as instantly recognizable in 1982, but after 1990 those colors are inescapable from 5 light years away.

I'm pretty sure most people don't consider Star Trek 2 unnecessary fan service. As a matter of fact it adds to the believability of the revenge plot. We don't yet know whether Vadic is a character that is based on a previous storyline or even another version of a previous character. But honestly that's what makes Wrath of Khan revenge story better than Star Trek 2009 for example - IS because the character of Khan is someone we've seen in the past. Adds more weight to the narrative.

Could go anywhere, Vadic - I doubt they'll drop the ball regardless of origins and motivations. I have speculated something, but I don't think it matters.

Spoiler

I think the rest of her is a Changeling... great new f/x, which feel right. I recall there was a virus; she could be the result of a mutation, which explains some other mild nitpicky things but nothing in terms of contrivances or actual out-of-character changes approaching anything that I'd get wound up about.

Proper development to continue a story with. Ditto for the Pakleds.

Speaking of Plummer, General Chang had no backstory and he's the only movie villain (IMHO) introduced out of nowhere but ended up as compelling as Khan. Maybe Krall from "Beyond"... certainly not notKhan from STID (he was better off as John, without the fanservice as that diluted the movie for me... YMMV.)

Many will disagree with me but I do think the whole fanservice angle is really overdone. it's especially overblown with online reviewers who are not fans of that particular franchise. They simply look at it and say “Oh yeah this guy is from this other show so it must be fanservice: Gotta point that out”

If there's depth and deftness, a character or scene isn't fanservice - by default or at all. If it's done for shallow namedropping or cheap ratings, then I'd start to wonder. I don't see any of that in season 3 so far... (and it's got plenty of easter eggs and other bunny droppings that clearly are fanservice. The plotting is its own thing and from what I've seen so far, it's definitely not fanservice - but keeping some references on the side, which is A-OK. )

 

[fireproof78]

I am convinced that if it was 1981 and social media and the Internet existed back then people would be screaming fan service! about the upcoming movie Star Trek 2 the Wrath of Khan. “ Why bring back a character from the original series especially after doing a more unique science fiction heavy story for the first movie?. This is going to be obvious fanservice!”

You're probably right.

I'm pretty sure most people don't consider Star Trek 2 unnecessary fan service.

Depends on the part. Some of it is, yes.

But honestly even if it doesn't serve the story 100% I still don't think it's worthy of a major complaint most of the time.

A "major complaint?" Yeah, probably not. Fan service is something that is overused, and that has diminished it's meaning. In my opinion, if the character can come in in a natural way, and is in service to the larger story, and moves the narrative forward then I can say it works. If not, I will call it out as fan service. Certain lines can come across as fan service, and even certain characters, depending on the scene, can feel unnecessary.

It's not black or white. I don't think whole scenes are fan service, but I do think certain plot points are.

My biggest objection to fan service is when it is lazy. When it is put in as a name on a computer screen, or to hype up a character, or anything that is not meant to serve the story but elbow the audience members and say "See! SEE? We get it. You want more of this! Please believe this is real Star Trek!" That stands out as glaring and painful.

Also, you might want to add spoiler codes for the current running show.

 

[trekfan_1]

Spoiler tag added to the portion of my post that uses an example from "Star Trek Picard". Thanks to my fellow posters to point this out to me.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't consider it "fan service" if it's an actual story that builds on previous material and having something from before serves a purpose to the story being told. If something is embedded into the structure of the show, and it makes sense for it to be there, people have to get over it. Nothing exists in a vacuum.

"Fan service", to me, is throwing something in willy-nilly that serves no purpose and is only there just to be there.

It's case-by-case, not "one size fits all".

 

[Dukhat]

"Fan service", to me, is throwing something in willy-nilly that serves no purpose and is only there just to be there.

Which pretty much describes Lower Decks.

 

[Greg Cox]

Amen. As somebody who has arguably made a career out of fan service and continuity porn, I don't quite get the animosity toward "fan service." Why wouldn't you want to see STAR TREK stuff in STAR TREK?

I mean, sure, "small universe" and all that, but I'm willing to overlook that if means revisiting old favorites and finding out what's happened to them since we last saw them. Part of the appeal of series fiction, whether you're talking Sherlock Holmes or the Fantastic Four or Doc Savage or Star Trek for that matter, is revisiting beloved characters and settings. Familiarity has its pleasures, which is why series exist in the first place.

 

[1001001]

Who doesn’t want to get serviced?



And yes, keep those damn spoilers tagged.

 

[fireproof78]

I want a good story first and foremost. Period. If the details make sense in the story I'm OK with it.

Adding in continuity details just because feels artificial way to appeal to my fan side. I don't like being catered too. I hate it, actually.

 

[trekfan_1]

I want a good story first and foremost. Period. If the details make sense in the story I'm OK with it.

Adding in continuity details just because feels artificial way to appeal to my fan side. I don't like being catered too. I hate it, actually.

Understand where your coming from. How do you feel about seeing quick references in computer screens? Mentions of old characters or places. That is VERY obviously fan service but honestly blink and you miss it. Non fans wouldn't care or affect their enjoyment. This sort of fan service was a thing as far back as TNG with the "Okudagrams". They dont really bother me

 

[Dukhat]

Understand where your coming from. How do you feel about seeing quick references in computer screens? Mentions of old characters or places. That is VERY obviously fan service but honestly blink and you miss it. Non fans wouldn't care or affect their enjoyment. This sort of fan service was a thing as far back as TNG with the "Okudagrams". They dont really bother me

A lot of that stuff was never meant to be seen up close, so it's not 'fanservice' by the definition we're using here. We're talking hit-you-over-the-head-with-a-shovel levels of fanservice.

 

[fireproof78]

Understand where your coming from. How do you feel about seeing quick references in computer screens? Mentions of old characters or places. That is VERY obviously fan service but honestly blink and you miss it. Non fans wouldn't care or affect their enjoyment. This sort of fan service was a thing as far back as TNG with the "Okudagrams". They dont really bother me

Again, it's case by case. I think of things like Discovery's "most decorated captain's list" and that feels more jarring. But, it's minor and I usually ignore it.

Personally, I'm just in it for the story. If it makes sense in world and doesn't distract me, then I can stomach it. The fan accolades after the fact might annoy, but usually it's ok. It's when it's a specific character or location. Hell, even "Delta Vega" in ST 09 irritated me.

It's very much case by case.

 

[Greg Cox]

I want a good story first and foremost. Period. If the details make sense in the story I'm OK with it.

Adding in continuity details just because feels artificial way to appeal to my fan side. I don't like being catered too. I hate it, actually.

See, I'm the opposite. I think those kinda Easter eggs are fun and harmless. Folks who get them will smile and folks who don't can still follow the story in the foreground just fine.

My very general rule of thumb is to never invent a new alien race of, say, alien telepaths or shape-shifters if there's already one available in the Star Trek universe. Ditto for high-tech alien McGuffins. And if I see a way to connect a story to a favorite TOS episode, I will jump on it with enthusiasm, in part just for my own amusement.

 

[fireproof78]

My very general rule of thumb is to never invent a new alien race of, say, alien telepaths or shape-shifters if there's already one available in the Star Trek universe. Ditto for high-tech alien McGuffins. And if I see a way to connect a story to a favorite TOS episode, I will jump on it with enthusiasm, in part just for my own amusement.

Completely fair.

And if you can make it work then I certainly prefer that idea of working within the sandbox, as it were.

I just don't expect it or want the writer to insert them just to make me smile.

ETA: And I realize this makes me sound a bit curmudgeonly when it comes to stories. To be blunt, if the writer wants it in there and it makes them smile I'm happy. If it's done as a wink to the audience, not for me.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I will say that Delta Vega irritated me as well in the first Abramsverse movie. Not because it was there, but because it was mutually exclusive with the "lithium cracking station" planet from "Where No Man Has Gone Before." So mutually exclusive that it triggered the creation of a whole cottage industry of people finding a way to retcon it, either with some hypothetical "Delta Vega Corporation" calling all of its planets "Delta Vega," or (more recently) with Spock not actually seeing the destruction of Vulcan (which would put Delta Vega in or near the 40Eri system), and instead "feeling" it, the way he felt the Intrepid die in "The Immunity Syndrome."

At any rate, nothing exists in a vacuum (other than space itself) in our universe. Why should an author create something out of whole cloth, just to avoid using something that already exists? At least as long as you don't have Richard Arnold forcing you to do so?

 

[Greg Cox]

Completely fair.

And if you can make it work then I certainly prefer that idea of working within the sandbox, as it were.

I just don't expect it or want the writer to insert them just to make me smile.

ETA: And I realize this makes me sound a bit curmudgeonly when it comes to stories. To be blunt, if the writer wants it in there and it makes them smile I'm happy. If it's done as a wink to the audience, not for me.

Fair enough. Personally, I have no objections to making audiences smile. Kinda figure it's part of the job description.

(I will cop, however, to slipping an incredibly obscure in-joke into one of my LIBRARIANS novels, in the sure and certain knowledge that nobody on God's green Earth was going to get it but me.)

 

[fireproof78]

Fair enough. Personally, I have no objections to making audiences smile. Kinda figure it's part of the job description.

I mean, I'm sure that's why some people read works. I just like it for characters and storytelling, and the occasional smile at the characters. In jokes are a little too much for me. Like I said, I'm strange because most fans go "Yes, service me! Please." And I'm like "It makes me damn uncomfortable."

 

[at Quark's]

See, I'm the opposite. I think those kinda Easter eggs are fun and harmless. Folks who get them will smile and folks who don't can still follow the story in the foreground just fine.

My very general rule of thumb is to never invent a new alien race of, say, alien telepaths or shape-shifters if there's already one available in the Star Trek universe. Ditto for high-tech alien McGuffins. And if I see a way to connect a story to a favorite TOS episode, I will jump on it with enthusiasm, in part just for my own amusement.

I don't mind some of such connections and 'easter eggs' , but not too many of them. The galaxy is huge and I don't want to get the feeling the Federation / Starfleet is a show that's basically run over a span of 200 years by a set of only 150 people. Gives me a bit of a claustrophobic and boxed-in feeling, and I want it to feel vast.

I don't mind seeing old characters again, but it should fit organically in the story (i.e. not 'What an incredible coincidence I should meet you here in this sector!' on a frequent basis).

 

[trekfan_1]

I don't mind some of such connections and 'easter eggs' , but not too many of them. The galaxy is huge and I don't want to get the feeling the Federation / Starfleet is a show that's basically run over a span of 200 years by a set of only 150 people. Gives me a bit of a claustrophobic and boxed-in feeling, and I want it to feel vast.

I don't mind seeing old characters again, but it should fit organically in the story (i.e. not 'What an incredible coincidence I should meet you here in this sector!' on a frequent basis).

I think Worf popping up in the TNG movies, especially in "Insurrection" is a prime example of this . You kinda forgive it because you wouldn't want him left out. But for me, even still, that pops at me as inorganic much more than the more recent examples of returning characters in modern trek.

 

[Greg Cox]

Worf was kinda a special case since, at that point, he "belonged" to two separate STAR TREK casts. TNG fans rightfully expected to see him in the movies, while he was simultaneously a regular on DS9. The movies tried to split the difference, sometimes more convincingly than others.

Funny story: I was writing a TNG trilogy around that time and asked my editor who the Enterprise's security chief was when Worf wasn't conveniently on hand for the movies. I was told I could make up anyone I wanted as long as they were gone by the end of trilogy!