Fan reactions to Starfleet Academy's female Jem'Hadar/Klingon hybrid character

[jctechwizard]

I don't understand all this hate/vitriol online suddenly about the female Jem'Hadar/Klingon hybrid character from Starfleet Academy. People saying: "oh there can't be a female Jem'Hadar because the Jem'Hadar were all males". In the 24th century. There were no female Jem'Hadar in the 24th century because they were all genetically engineered (essentially clones "bred" not born) to be male. The Dominion genetically engineered the Jem'Hadar to be super soldiers and engineered/cloned them all to be male (being clones there was no need for women, also the Dominion mindset at the time being that having women would have made them weak). Things change over 800+ years. After returning to the Great Link Odo could have changed the Dominion and ultimately caused them to decide to clone female Jem'Hadar. For all we know the Dominion as it was in the 24th century may not even exist in the 32nd century. A female Jem'Hadar/Klingon hybrid character is an interesting idea for a character actually, seeing that both species are warrior, just warriors with slightly different ethos. Saying that because the Jem'Hadar were the way they were in DS9 means they can't be any different in Starfleet Academy makes absolutely no sense. By that logic a group of people who were a certain way in the 1200's at the time of the high middle ages and the crusades HAVE to be exactly that same way today in the 2000's.

Some pedants also point out that the actress has a "large body size" and say "Klingons and Jem'Hadar are warriors! They're all fit and have great physiques!" There have been plenty of heavy-set Klingons in Star Trek (General Koord in ST: V, Chancellor K'mpek from TNG, the chef at the Klingon restaurant in DS9 season 2 to name but a few). The character being heavyset is such a non-issue, and if she is the product of a union between an Jem'Hadar and a Klingon, there is no reason she couldn't have inherited the genes for larger body size.

People complain because of something that is new and different being done in a new Star trek series that is set in a timeframe beyond anything that's been seen so far. And they complain because this character is part Jem'Hadar and yet not like the Jem'Hadar in DS9 800 years past. A LOT can change in 800 years. I think Star Trek would be a lot less believable if nothing had changed after 800 years. These same people say this is an example of Star Trek's creative powers ignoring canon. It's not. It's building canon. Nothing about this character contradicts, retcons, or otherwise disrespects canon.

And then there's all the people saying that it's part of "the woke agenda". No it's not. It's just a character. Yet it's obviously played by a black woman and a person with some body size. So what? Why does/should that matter? Honestly all the hate/outrage over the character BEFORE the show has even premiered: much ado about nothing. I have a better idea: how about let's not go Green Eggs and Ham and actually wait until the series premieres and we actually see the character before passing judgement.

 

[fireproof78]

. I have a better idea: how about let's not go Green Eggs and Ham and actually wait until the series premiers and we actually see the character before passing judgement.

Too reasonable for fandom, sadly. This is the same fandom with members that got mad at TNG as it didn't feature Kirk and Spock, or that hated the "change for the sake of change" with Klingon make up in TMP.

"People can be very frightened of change."

 

[The Wormhole]

I was not aware of any complaints about the character. The fact that Jem'Hadar were entirely male in the 24th century was brought up in our Academy thread, but we'd already reached a consensus that as an engineered race, it was conceivable they could have women by the 32nd century. So, who is this thread directed at exactly?

 

[BillJ]

I was not aware of any complaints about the character. The fact that Jem'Hadar were entirely male in the 24th century was brought up in our Academy thread, but we'd already reached a consensus that as an engineered race, it was conceivable they could have women by the 32nd century. So, who is this thread directed at exactly?

You're absolutely right. There could be a genetically engineered female.

As a creative decision? For me, CBS Trek just drowns in nostalgia for the sake of nostalgia. It is just another show that I will quickly lose interest in, once the New Trek smell wears off. Like all the rest of CBS Trek.

 

[Tuskin38]

For me, CBS Trek just drowns in nostalgia for the sake of nostalgia

If it was for nostalgia they'd be male.

 

[DSG2k]

After what they did to the Klingons, questions like this cannot be said to be invalid from the get-go.

We must also recognize, unless I am mistaken, but it was not said that all Jem'Hadar were male, but only that there were no females. We do not know that there is any equipment at all with which to reproduce.

That said, in fairness, Jem'Hadar *can* eat, for no apparent reason, as we learned in "Hippocratic Oath" where some of the Jem'Hadar sought freedom. Assuming they, like the Vorta, were modified from a lower species, it's possible they also had some vestigial sex organs and the capacity for females, both of which they could have then obtained along with freedom from ketracel white. (Woe to the mommas, though.)

However, it is kinda silly that they would even want to be a fully fledged reproducing species. Why would it be so? Once they had achieved freedom from the Founders, their entire identity and culture would have changed, so what was to pass on? This is especially true if it required breeding a new subspecies rather than being able to retrofit equipment onto existing examples. There would be no "selfish genes" involved, for all practical purposes.

It's a bit of a hard sell for me, but then it would only take a few expressing such a desire to make it potentially available, assuming Odo lobbied for it. Or, alternately, some of them were talked into it by some unscrupulous other outfit. Either way, it is odd.

 

[jctechwizard]

I was not aware of any complaints about the character. The fact that Jem'Hadar were entirely male in the 24th century was brought up in our Academy thread, but we'd already reached a consensus that as an engineered race, it was conceivable they could have women by the 32nd century. So, who is this thread directed at exactly?

Many Youtube videos have brought this up recently, starting a whole fan debate on the subject

 

[Turtletrekker]

I actually thought that this was common knowledge, but since that is apparently not the case, I will put this in spoiler code...

Spoiler: Lura Thok

Lura Thok, played by Gina Yashere, is a half Klingon / half Jem'Hadar hybrid. One of the major thrusts of the season will be dealing with Klingon hybrids. Paul Giamatti's villain character is a half Klingon / half Tellerite hybrid.

 

[Noname Given]

Even in the promo they said it was a Jem'Hadar hybrid; so yeah, if they want to re-engineer the Jem'Hadar or 'cross' them with another race that has females - what's the big deal?

One would think genetic engineering had improved - and outside the Federation there was no ban on genetic engineering; assuming the ban itself wasn't already removed at some point between the 23rd century and the 'Burn' in the 31st century.

 

[Char Kais]

I was not aware of any complaints about the character.

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[Turtletrekker]

Oh, Major Grin. That explains everything.

I'm sure the useless likes of Nerdidiotic, Midnight's Edgelord, Geeks and Lamers and The Critical Loser are also all crying in their sleep over it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Many Youtube videos have brought this up recently, starting a whole fan debate on the subject

It's YouTube. Gotta get them views and likes

After what they did to the Klingons, questions like this cannot be said to be invalid from the get-go.

But enough about TMP....

 

[jctechwizard]

Oh, Major Grin. That explains everything.

I'm sure the useless likes of Nerdidiotic, Midnight's Edgelord, Geeks and Lamers and The Critical Loser are also all crying in their sleep over it.

Yep Nerdrotic, Midnight's Edge, That Star Wars Girl

 

[Turtletrekker]

Yep Nerdrotic, Midnight's Edge, That Star Wars Girl

The usual suspects. Toxic hate baiters. Not worth your time or consideration.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

I have just assumed that Odo successfully liberated the Jem'Hadar and managed to turn them back into an actual people again.

 

[Noname Given]

Yep Nerdrotic, Midnight's Edge, That Star Wars Girl

What? did DoomCock finally go impotent?

 

[fireproof78]

Is the idea of two warrior races mating that strange?

 

[jctechwizard]

Is the idea of two warrior races mating that strange?

nope.

 

[DSG2k]

Is the idea of two warrior races mating that strange?

When there are doubts one of them can mate at all, then perhaps.

With the Vorta there were male and very female versions, though we know the ones we saw were clones. Since they could only clone one a few times, this might imply sexual reproduction (with or without technology support) in order to make new ones. (This is actually a bit odd, since you would think they could have virtually unlimited supply of the same cell line and thus not have to worry about the "Up the Long Ladder"(TNG2) fading problem, but for whatever reason they don't do it that way.)

With the Jem'Hadar, we do not have sexual reproduction as far as is known, but at the same time we do see a fair amount of genetic variation between individuals. This is typically a product of sexual reproduction combining different DNA and thereby tending to enhance survivability via variation.

So, either the Founders were combining and recombining and editing all the Jem'Hadar DNA to keep stocks fresh (meaning each new one is the child of two or more other Jem'Hadar 'males' anyway), or perhaps there was a secret stock of females.

The point is, while it can be fun to ponder the possibilities, it would've made more sense not to create this non-intuitive old-canon-bending concept, both on a Trek-technical and PR level.

 

[TheFlutteringHorde]

It's probably just a development from the intervening millennia or possibly a transgender individual which would be interesting. But I also think there's enough circumstantial evidence that they could have existed before the Dominion. We know they didn't create the Vorta out of whole cloth, and there's certain features of the Jem'Hadar when they're in an adolescent stage and younger in particular that don't seem to line up with them being created from scratch for their purpose.

This is what I posted about it in one of the other threads.

I really don't see any reason at all there couldn't be a lady Jem'Hadar, even in the DS9 timeframe if they really wanted to.