Fan productions and previous works?

[Warped9]

Here's a question to ponder.

NV/P2 has made episodes of stories that existed previously in other forms. Was it all right for them to do this given that they make no profit from their filmes versions? I'm referring, of course, to the never filmed story "The Child" originally written for the aborted Phase II series (and "The Child" was also adapted as a TNG episode) as well as the short story "Mindsifter" previously published many years ago in a collection (published by Bantam Books) called The New Voyages. They've also filmed a version of David Gerrold's story "Blood Fire" which Gerrold originally pitched to TNG before he later published it on his own as one of his Star Wolf books. NV/P2 also filmed their version of "Kitumba" that was originally written for the aborted Phase II series.

Those are the ones I know about. I have no knowledge if any other fan production has ever adapted a previous work for release online.

Now I understand it could be a legal minefield to adapt a story published by Pocket books. But it does raise the question about other previous work.

As a non-profit fan venture could someone adapt a TAS episode as live-action? Could they adapt any other previously published stories from any of the books published by Bantam Books? Could they adapt any of the other stories written originally for Phase II?

Given fan productions are essentially fanfic adapted to a visual medium it should go without saying that any fanfic story could be adapted albeit with the original author's permission.

Thoughts anyone?


I was just thinking that I've always liked the novel Spock Must Die and I think it could make for an interesting adaptation as a fan production.

Any other ideas?

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

Paragon's Paragon, a fan film made in 1974, did just that:

The story was a direct adaptation of the James Blish novel "Spock Must Die" which came out about 6 or 7 years earlier; although the article doesn't mention that. Here's the article in it's entirety... enjoy!

http://mystartrekscrapbook.blogspot.com/2009/01/fan-film-paragons-paragon.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2BW1G4K8B4

 

[Warped9]

^^ Wow! Interesting, though it certainly looks very dated and rough compared to today.

 

[MikeH92467]

I would guess that the writers of the novels (whether "official" or "unofficial") signed away their film rights to the publishers, but even if they didn't those would stiil be copyrighted properties and it would take some sort of agreement with the rights holders to adapt them.

 

[fireproof78]

It would likely exist in the sheltered harbor of Star Trek copyright holder CBS's patience in that any novels still belong to them.

I mean, a fan production could certainly contact the author to try and make an adaptation work better, but questions of royalties and the like can become complicated, at best.

 

[Barbreader]

I believe that New Voyages did work with (or get the permission of) the writers of the older works.

 

[Duane]

I'm pretty sure David Gerrold directed P2's "Blood and Fire" and P2 definitely had the permission of the author of Mind-Shifter to film.

 

[GSchnitzer]

We don't have any more or less right to remake earlier Star Trek works than we have permission to make Star Trek stories in general. We do it only at the good graces of CBS Consumer Products.

 

[Warped9]

We don't have any more or less right to remake earlier Star Trek works than we have permission to make Star Trek stories in general. We do it only at the good graces of CBS Consumer Products.

You used cgi to realize Lt. Arex for live-action--which was rather cool--and you adapted previously existing works (in printed form). You had permission to adapt "Mindsifter" and "Blood And Fire," but what about "The Child" and "Kitumba?" Did you require permission to adapt those stories?

 

[DCR]

We don't have any more or less right to remake earlier Star Trek works than we have permission to make Star Trek stories in general. We do it only at the good graces of CBS Consumer Products.

You used cgi to realize Lt. Arex for live-action--which was rather cool--and you adapted previously existing works (in printed form). You had permission to adapt "Mindsifter" and "Blood And Fire," but what about "The Child" and "Kitumba?" Did you require permission to adapt those stories?

Seeing as "The Child" was co-written and directed by the author of the original script submitted to the never-filmed Phase II I think it's fair to argue that they had at least his blessing.

 

[Warped9]

Excuse me for asking these baby type questions. I'm just trying to get a proper understanding of all this.

CBS is basically taking a hands-off approach to fan productions as long as they don't cross certain lines--namely not profiting from said productions and not promoting them as official Star Trek works. This situation effecrively allows you to use pretty much whatever you want from any of the official series and films without having to get "permission" for each and every instance.

Have I got that right?

But you are using those previously existing elements in a new form--a new story. But could someone adapt a pre-existing story such as a TAS episode or is that out of bounds? Could someone adapt one of the novels published by Bantam Books (don't they still hold the rights to those works given they reprint them every so often?) or perhaps the early Timescape/Pocket novels?

 

[Kor]

Apparently it depends on how gracious the rights-holders are.

In the '80s some teenagers produced a shot-for-shot remake of "Raiders of the Lost Ark." It has been screened publicly more than once, and you can even obtain a DVD if you give a donation which is way higher than the typical price for a commercially-released DVD (which reminds me of the pledge drives on public television).

Paramount Pictures and Lucasfilm don't seem to care.

Kor

 

[fireproof78]

Apparently it depends on how gracious the rights-holders are.

In the '80s some teenagers produced a shot-for-shot remake of "Raiders of the Lost Ark." It has been screened publicly more than once, and you can even obtain a DVD if you give a donation which is way higher than the typical price for a commercially-released DVD (which reminds me of the pledge drives on public television).

Paramount Pictures and Lucasfilm don't seem to care.

Kor

Lucas was very relaxed about fan films, both Star Wars and Indiana Jones, and even had his own award as part of the Fan Film Awards. One of the concerns with Disney taking over is how they will regard fan productions, especially after TFA and other films come out.

Grace is definitely the correct term in any case.

 

[PattyW]

Warped 9, seems like you're doing a little catch up here - which is understandable given how incredibly vast the fan film genre is now. What an amazing amount of choices we have!

As others have said - we had the involvement of the writers of "Blood and Fire" and "The Child", (and the upcoming "The Protracted Man"). Both David Gerrold and Jon Povill/Jaron Summers rewrote their episodes specifically for New Voyages/Phase II and directed them as well.

The writer of the original "The Mind Sifter" asked James to film that version back when he was just dreaming about making fan films. The story they filmed was technically copyrighted by the editors of "The New Voyages", who bought the rights lock, stock and barrell - but I haven't seen any objection from them and the original writer's family was okay with it. (the writer died in 2004)

"Kitumba" was a hazy point. Did they have the rights? No. Did some alumni object? Yes. But in the end CBS was okay with it, and CBS legal is all that matters in these matters.

And the CBS legal thing brings us to the present and future... I approached Norman Spinrad about filming "He Walks Among Us" and pre-production started when CBS shut it down cold. JJ had started making Trek films and CBS legal, at the time, sent out a C&D to the future filming of anything that had originally been written for the license owner - in case they ever wanted to use those stories as a basis for a NuTrek plot line. That included filmed and unfilmed scripts and published prose (novels, short stories, etc.)

So, if that C&D still exists and is upheld*, fan films cannot film the novels, short stories, produced or unproduced scripts. It's one of only two things that CBS has asked of fanfilms - the other being don't use NuTrek elements or timeline as that they'd consider direct competition. (*I have not been part of NV or any other Trek fanfilm since 2013 so the edicts might have changed.)

The only grey spot is unfilmed scripts that the writer bought back from CBS. Technically the writer has the right to have them filmed. Whether CBS would object isn't known - but they seem to be giving fanfilms a wide berth of creative and financing options, so I doubt they would.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Thanks. That does clear some things up.

 

[fireproof78]

Warped 9, seems like you're doing a little catch up here - which is understandable given how incredibly vast the fan film genre is now. What an amazing amount of choices we have!

As others have said - we had the involvement of the writers of "Blood and Fire" and "The Child", (and the upcoming "The Protracted Man"). Both David Gerrold and Jon Povill/Jaron Summers rewrote their episodes specifically for New Voyages/Phase II and directed them as well.

The writer of the original "The Mind Sifter" asked James to film that version back when he was just dreaming about making fan films. The story they filmed was technically copyrighted by the editors of "The New Voyages", who bought the rights lock, stock and barrell - but I haven't seen any objection from them and the original writer's family was okay with it. (the writer died in 2004)

"Kitumba" was a hazy point. Did they have the rights? No. Did some alumni object? Yes. But in the end CBS was okay with it, and CBS legal is all that matters in these matters.

And the CBS legal thing brings us to the present and future... I approached Norman Spinrad about filming "He Walks Among Us" and pre-production started when CBS shut it down cold. JJ had started making Trek films and CBS legal, at the time, sent out a C&D to the future filming of anything that had originally been written for the license owner - in case they ever wanted to use those stories as a basis for a NuTrek plot line. That included filmed and unfilmed scripts and published prose (novels, short stories, etc.)

So, if that C&D still exists and is upheld*, fan films cannot film the novels, short stories, produced or unproduced scripts. It's one of only two things that CBS has asked of fanfilms - the other being don't use NuTrek elements or timeline as that they'd consider direct competition. (*I have not been part of NV or any other Trek fanfilm since 2013 so the edicts might have changed.)

The only grey spot is unfilmed scripts that the writer bought back from CBS. Technically the writer has the right to have them filmed. Whether CBS would object isn't known - but they seem to be giving fanfilms a wide berth of creative and financing options, so I doubt they would.

Very insightful and informative. Thank you very, very, much.